PDA

View Full Version : Wardancer tribe 2500..



the gribbly
23-10-2011, 14:45
I didnt want to necro my old thread so I thought id just start a new one.

After a few victories vs. vamps and a recent victory agaisnt daemons my tribe is undefeated and so I am looking to fine tune it a little more. Here it is:

LORDS
Beastweaver, lvl4, fencers blades, stone of rebirth, crown of command- 350

HEROES
Eternal Noble, bsb, la, sh, talisman of preservation- 144
Wardancer Noble, blades of loec, tricksters shard II- 155
Noble, wildfire blades, moonstone of hidden ways, dragonbane gem- 125

CORE
14 glade guard, full command, Banner of Eternal Flame- 202
10 glade guard, musician- 126
10 glade guard- 120

10 Dryads- 120
10 Dryads- 120

SPECIAL
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (beastweaver, bsb)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (wardancer noble)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (moonstone noble)

RARE
Treeman- 285

5 waywatchers- 120

Great eagle- 50
Great eagle- 50

total- 2495

So most of the list is performing nicely. However, my wardancer noble and to an extent my bsb have both been underwhelming with the wardancer giving up easy victory points every game. Keep in mind these are both frontline combat characters.
So, I am looking for ideas for alternate builds to these characters. Note that my group has ruled to remove ALL restrictions for bsb's including kindreds. God I wish wardancer nobles could take some other magic weapons i.e. sword of strife/obsidian blade! Anyway ive wracked my brain and everything is starting to blur so lets have some fresh ideas! Thanks.

cyberspite
23-10-2011, 23:15
Well, I think some more defensive gear would help, the wardancer noble has some really fluffy stuff, but only a 6+ ward for protection.

Something like the stone of crystal mere or amaranthine broach would go a long way to keeping him in the fight, as would a potion of toughness or annoyance of netlings (possibly).

The bsb could also do with some better protection, or go with the glade guard if you want to keep him out of combat.

Basically, I think you are going to have to sacrifice some of your theme to make the characters tougher. It's sad but just one of the limitations of the current book unfortunately.

Failing that though, you could always just take more wardancers ;)

Edit: Just had a thought, you could also drop 2 of the nobles for a wardancer highborn, then you have enough points allowance to take both the fluffy and defensive items.

Also, I'm sure you are aware but getting off pans pelt or even wyssans wildform at the right time would really help.

the gribbly
24-10-2011, 20:55
Thanks cyberspite I guess theres still a couple of us wood elves left on this forum!

I have considered putting the bsb with the large gg unit (wf blades, dragonhelm, HoDA), although I would have to rethink my deployment since I usually deploy my ranged elements near to last and to the opposite flank of the main concentration. Alternate builds are: wf blades, dragonhelm, SotCM -or- hw, shield, armour of destiny.

The moonstone noble could become a wardancer for extra killy but he would lose the wf blades, I think this guy is actually good as-is for cheap delivery of teleporting wd's.

Lastly the wardancer noble. His kit is sweet but 4 ws6 attacks don't generate enough hits vs enemy characters to give me a kb often enough, sadly. I am considering AoN + strength potion, or amaranthine brooch/SotCM instead. This guy is the hardest since he really doesn't bring much to the table. I suppose I could drop him for 6 wild riders or more waywatchers instead. hmmm. With the items left available I dont think the wd lord is worth it here as much as I love him.

covenant
24-10-2011, 21:46
A wardancer lord is I8, 5 attacks, ws 7...blades of loec rerolling failed to wound with some decent protection...and. Potion of strength... While fluffy as hell ( red wolf anyone? ) simply costs too many points unless you are playing a big game and have points to spare!

the gribbly
26-10-2011, 18:49
I have a few more games this weekend and here is the list ive decided on, most likely opponents are DE, VC, DoC or dwarfs:

LORDS
Beastweaver, lvl4, fencers blades, stone of rebirth, crown of command- 350

HEROES
Noble, bsb, la, gw, dragonhelm, amaranthine brooch- 141
Scout Noble, wildfire blades, moonstone of hidden ways, dragonbane gem- 140

CORE
14 glade guard, full command, Banner of Eternal Flame- 202
10 glade guard, standard- 132
10 glade guard, musician- 126

9 Dryads- 108
9 Dryads- 108

SPECIAL
4 Warhawk Riders- 160
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (beastweaver, bsb)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (wardancer noble)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (moonstone noble)

RARE
Treeman- 285

5 waywatchers- 120

Great eagle- 50
Great eagle- 50

total- 2500

The warhawks were originally 5 wild riders + standard but I decided the warhawks may actually prove more resilient and more utility. With their ability to redeploy and pull off rear charges as well as mage/WM hunt they could prove annoying. Besides, dangerous terrain has been rather unforgiving to my wild riders lately so I wanted to test these guys out again since I havent used them much in 8th. Any thoughts on these guys or the list in general?

Edit: moonstone noble became a scout in case I dont have enough forests to teleport or just want to scout alone or with the waywatcher unit.

popisdead
26-10-2011, 22:22
I like that you are making use of Warhawk Riders. I'm fond of Wild Riders, especially someone with lower init charging them (smaller units of Squig hoppers)

Are you liking the Fencers Blades on the Beastweaver? I assume you are buffing him with Pann's and Savage?

DT is unforgiving to any cavalry (more so Chaos Knights which cost more and don't benefit the armour protection).

How are the Wardancers working for you? Do you combo charge them with the Dryads in the front?

the gribbly
26-10-2011, 23:45
I like that you are making use of Warhawk Riders. I'm fond of Wild Riders, especially someone with lower init charging them (smaller units of Squig hoppers)
I utilized warhawks for a few games at the onset of 8th and they were better than expected so I thought they would make a return in my lists. I also like wild riders for accepting charges as you say. I opted for warhawks due greater mobility and suicide hunting potential plus less DT tests :)


Are you liking the Fencers Blades on the Beastweaver? I assume you are buffing him with Pann's and Savage?
The blades are defensive as much as offensive, but yes I utilize savage beast. Panns I try to avoid as I just havent had need of it over other spells in the lore. IMO its the second worst spell.
His primary goal is transformation although curse has also been amazing (my group counts open ground as terrain as we feel this is how the rule reads). Honestly I dont have any complaints so far and hes very fun to use.


DT is unforgiving to any cavalry (more so Chaos Knights which cost more and don't benefit the armour protection).
Yes very true although I have worse luck than most with DT. The funny thing is im also a deathwing player so I guess those 1's crossed over!


How are the Wardancers working for you? Do you combo charge them with the Dryads in the front?
Its all situation dependent although very rarely will I charge the front of anything with wardancers unless i can combo a flank/rear or ive already weakened the unit with shooting, preferably both. Usually if they engage to the front I lose the unit.
I will take the chance with the beastweavers unit if im desperate though since transformation will win games. Dryads otoh I am willing to throw headlong to save other units or buy time.
So far the wardancers are working surprisingly well, although obviously a shadow of their former glory. They can still make mincemeat if used right and they actually survive decently when the enemy is denied support attacks.
If I win the deployment war they fare much better. I will often send a unit around a far flank to help with late game control, which is where I usually find my wins in turns 5-6. Also 10 wardancers will own most units they find out in those regions of the board so they can usually move around with impunity there.

Its not an easy list to pilot but its very fun and rewarding to use.

popisdead
27-10-2011, 16:51
Yeah I keep wanting to use Warhawks (cause we have them, much like Waywatchers) but I cannot seem to make them work. Do they get full attacks from the second rank if you ran them 2x2?

I forgot Panns Belt and the +4T spell aren't in the same Lore. A T10 Elf Mage would crack me up. I have to admit, I've never cast the spell and I've always dropped it first.

Kudos on being a Deathwing player.

I meant, charge the Dryads in front, Wardancers in the flank. You'll have a lot of I6 S4 attacks going for you.

Thanks for the updates as well. I much prefer people finding a way to make something in the wood elf book work over an adamant and continual vociferous stream against it.

the gribbly
27-10-2011, 22:48
Unfortunately in the second rank only the riders can make supporting attacks and no stomp either. However I still believe they are probably the most reliable long ranged mage hunters in the list since they can focus 6 S4 + 2 stomp on even a single 20mm model. Not bad and they are a superior early drop like eagles since they have vanguard (flying cavalry) so they can redeploy in a 52" radius.

T10 elf would be hilarious and thanks for the DW props. Im drawn to neglected armies I guess.

I see what you meant now about the dryads/wardancers and yes that i will do. I should have an update soon since I should be gaming tomorrow barring bad fortune.

popisdead
28-10-2011, 20:38
You may have to balance the charge a bit if the enemy mage is on the corner. Front charge with Dryads maximized might allow you to have your Warhawk Riders positioned so both corners are against the enemy mage.

I have started running a spam of Glade Guard lately and I feel a sniper noble would be handy. I have a Wild Rider Noble and I don't know if he makes that much of a difference.

the gribbly
29-10-2011, 00:56
You may have to balance the charge a bit if the enemy mage is on the corner. Front charge with Dryads maximized might allow you to have your Warhawk Riders positioned so both corners are against the enemy mage.
Oh right, silly me for some reason that didnt even register, good point.


I have started running a spam of Glade Guard lately and I feel a sniper noble would be handy. I have a Wild Rider Noble and I don't know if he makes that much of a difference.
Ive rarely been pleased with wild rider nobles but every now and again I break them out. How have you found the sniper noble?

popisdead
31-10-2011, 21:36
How have you found the sniper noble?

I ran a Minobus last week so haven't tried the sniper yet. I will this week.

the gribbly
31-10-2011, 22:42
Just a quick update from my phone..played vs. vcs the other night..bad deployment and a few ill advised charges helped bring about a crushing vic for the woodies. Highlights include flank charging wardancers kb'ing a unit of blood knights who frenzy charged a bait unit, waywatchers taking down a charging vamp at 14 7/8" with stand n shoot kb arrows to the face. He conceded bottom of the 3rd after my beastweavers unit survived his terrorgeist lords charge on stubborn ld via bladesinger challenge. On my turn the beastweaver transformed into a mountain chimera and ate his vamp lord. And the tribe rumbles on...

castlesmadeofsand
01-11-2011, 21:26
On my turn the beastweaver transformed into a mountain chimera and ate his vamp lord

best line ever in a battle synopsis! :)

popisdead
01-11-2011, 22:44
I've tended to drop Transformation on my Wood Elf mages due to wanting other spells,.. I should consider maybe keeping it for defensive purposes. Problem is you need to charge to make it work and my lvl 4 is in a small unit of GG.

the gribbly
02-11-2011, 14:00
Originally Posted by the gribbly
On my turn the beastweaver transformed into a mountain chimera and ate his vamp lord
best line ever in a battle synopsis!

Hahaha thanks!


I've tended to drop Transformation on my Wood Elf mages due to wanting other spells,.. I should consider maybe keeping it for defensive purposes. Problem is you need to charge to make it work and my lvl 4 is in a small unit of GG.

Yep if your mage isnt tooled to survive a charge then the value of transformation drops significantly. This is why I have specifically built my beastweaver for combat (ws10, 2++, stubborn) and placed him in a highly mobile unit to up my chances of getting the charge and limiting who charges me. They are basically built around transformation and savage beast. Luckily so far I havent failed to roll that spell yet heh heh.

laribold
02-11-2011, 15:27
I'm really liking the vibe of this army and would love to read some more detailed battle reports if you ever have the time. Nice to see the Asrai (almost) standing up for themselves and not relying on Treekin to do the hard work for them.

I'm interested in how a list like this copes with the huge bricks of (often S4) infantry that throw out attacks and are perenially steadfast?

I'm very tempted to try a similar list (but cut down to 2,000pts). Do you think the list is viable when cut down by 500pts?

Keep up the good work!

the gribbly
03-11-2011, 01:35
Thank you laribold, I will eventually write up a batrep. I prefer narrative style though and I've never written one for fantasy although I've done a couple for 40k that turned out well imo. To be honest this army doesn't stand up to the units you mentioned. Transformation is the only thing I have besides the treeman that can tackle horde units. Otherwise I avoid, redirect or feed them sacrificial units while shooting them and killing any small units that exist. Once depleted or if my opponent makes a mistake I can surround and gang up on them.
As for doing similar at 2k, I actually think the list would benefit from the points reduction by limiting the power opposing armies can access and increasing the value of things like wardancers and HoDA etc. This army is rather fragile and won't forgive mistakes easily but its very fun to play once you get past that.

the gribbly
15-11-2011, 19:03
Had a rematch vs. DoC the other day...resulted in the first loss for my tribe by 150 pts.
Highlights include:
-bsb with dragonhelm challenging skulltaker inside a crusher unit and rolling double 1's for my 2++ ward saves!

-beastweaver again finding his way into combat with a great unclean one, tying him up for 3 turns before failing a 2++ ward and finally dying off, but not before he transformed and inflicted 7 unsaved wounds on the greater daemon.

-MVPs were the moonstone noble + wardancer unit who teleported turn 2 to threaten the flank of a 40 strong block of bloodletters. Shooting and curse of anraheir wittled the unit down to 23 (he had to move to avoid the flank charge) and my wardancers charged inflicting 13 unsaved wounds and receiving 3 in return, popping the unit + herald.

Overall a well fought battle although I wasnt able to pull many of my usual tactics due to bad rolls on the dawn attack scenario deployment which negated much of this army's advantage.

Ive done some slight tweeks to the lists by replacing warhawks with wildriders and changing the bsbs kit, lemme know what you think. DE and possibly dwarfs could be in the near future.

LORDS
Beastweaver, lvl4, fencers blades, stone of rebirth, crown of command- 350

HEROES
Noble, bsb, la, sh, dragonhelm, dawnspear- 139
Scout Noble, wildfire blades, moonstone of hidden ways, dragonbane gem- 140

CORE
14 glade guard, standard, musician, Banner of Eternal Flame- 196
10 glade guard, musician- 126
10 glade guard, musician- 126

9 Dryads- 108
9 Dryads- 108

SPECIAL
6 Wild Riders, standard, musician- 174
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (beastweaver, bsb)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (wardancer noble)
9 wardancers, bladesinger- 176 (moonstone noble)

RARE
Treeman- 285

5 waywatchers- 120

Great eagle- 50
Great eagle- 50

total- 2500

Fallen-prince
15-11-2011, 22:19
How do you win with literally 0 range attacks ?

the gribbly
15-11-2011, 22:43
How do you win with literally 0 range attacks ?
Hahaha this made me laugh! I actually have more shots in this list than most other lists ive used, i.e. 39 + strangle roots. To me shooting has always been just for specific targets and to help control movemet because shooting doesnt win games..deployment, movement and combat do.

Ville
16-11-2011, 08:30
How do you win with literally 0 range attacks ?

He does it by slicing n' dicing, I guess.;)

I still sometimes have nightmares about those Wardancers from 5th Edition. I have no idea how they are now, but back in the day they made a real mess of my rats, and when I managed to charge them with something beefier, they just did the "skip this combat round"-dance.:mad:

cyberspite
16-11-2011, 21:52
So how'd the warhawks do? They got subbed pretty quick!

the gribbly
17-11-2011, 03:44
Not much opportunity to really apply the warhawks so far but I will actually use them again in the near future. The change is mostly just a whim as they are the last flex spot open in the list. I go back and forth between the broader utility of the warhawks and the greater combat prowess of the wild riders.

popisdead
17-11-2011, 19:53
How do you win with literally 0 range attacks ?

How do you post with literally zero ability to not flame/troll?

I've been liking my Wild Riders but I've been thinking about Warhawks lately. How many do you feel you need to run? I have three, should I pick up at least one more?

cyberspite
17-11-2011, 22:38
I don't think I would take more than 3 or 4, as they are never going to be a frontline combat unit.

If they can tie-up or take out a couple of war machines, fast cav or missile units then they're doing a good job.

As a utility unit there's not a lot of difference between them and a small unit of wildriders, but I would take them over glade riders any day.

Another reason to keep them small is that you won't be so bothered if you lose them, especially if they can stomp a wizard with a kamikaze attack :D

WoodElfGeneral
18-11-2011, 00:13
the bsb cant carry a shield and doesn't need light armour if you give him the eternal kindred

the gribbly
18-11-2011, 18:17
My group has ruled to remove all bsb restrictions, I think I noted that in the first post, so shields etc are ok.

WoodElfGeneral
20-11-2011, 15:45
My group has ruled to remove all bsb restrictions, I think I noted that in the first post, so shields etc are ok.

OK, but you still don't need the shield because the eternal kindred gives you a 5+ armour save regardless if equipment. Drop the armour to and you've got another 5 or 6 points

popisdead
25-11-2011, 20:32
the bsb cant carry a shield and doesn't need light armour if you give him the eternal kindred

In general BSBs cannot have kindreds so I am assuming the group has allowed that as well?

You can combine a shield and LA with the EG kindred then, 3+/6+ save.