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View Full Version : Magic, a mage from behind!?



karse88
25-10-2011, 09:40
i have a warlock engineer lvl 2 that i hope will get the first to spells of ruin, skitterleap for transporting characters out of combat and warp lightning...
to use both i have to be in the first rank, but what will happen when i can see im about to be charged by something mean!?.. do i, in my turn, move my wizard to the back of the unit? then use skitterleap to get out of there (or to get another character out) if **** is going down in my next magic phase?
skaven can always go in the back, no problem, but only if im challenged, right?

what is the best combi to get out of a sticky situation.. i will bring a lvl 2, a lvl 4 and maybe al lvl one to be sure to get warp lightning..

Korraz
25-10-2011, 11:08
I suggest you re-read Vermnous Valour.
It says that you pick which character goes to the back if you refuse a challenge, not your opponent. Don't forget that you have to return to the front rank, the following CC phase.
And by the time Challenges are issued, the Magic Phase is long gone already.
Other than that, I don't really understand your post.

jaxom
25-10-2011, 16:26
Umm, wow... Just... Wow...

I'm going to start with echoing the suggestion to reread verminous valor. Then I might just say go bleach your brain and start again with the 8th edition rule book. Read abotu line of sight. Read about casting restrictions. Read about challenges. Read about placement of characters in the unit. Read about spell selection and then look at your army book for specifics about defaulting spells.

belgarath97
28-10-2011, 12:54
i have a warlock engineer lvl 2 that i hope will get the first to spells of ruin, skitterleap for transporting characters out of combat and warp lightning...
to use both i have to be in the first rank, but what will happen when i can see im about to be charged by something mean!?.. do i, in my turn, move my wizard to the back of the unit? then use skitterleap to get out of there (or to get another character out) if **** is going down in my next magic phase?
skaven can always go in the back, no problem, but only if im challenged, right?

what is the best combi to get out of a sticky situation.. i will bring a lvl 2, a lvl 4 and maybe al lvl one to be sure to get warp lightning..

Like the other posters re-read verminous valor. It only let's you go to the back when you refuse a challenge.

Skitterleap can be used even if you are in combat.

Warlock engineers can choose Warp-Lightning by default, instead of Skitterleap.

Without the sarcasm, I'm going to make the same suggestion as the above poster. You should take some time to re-read the rule book and the Skaven Army Book. If you are as confused about these rules as you seem to be, chances are you have some other issues to clear up.

jaxom
28-10-2011, 18:29
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic or condescending. It just strikes me from the OP that there are a whole lot of things that are unclear or misinterpreted and correcting them would require so many specific rules point that I would not feel comfortable that I could do anything without violating ToS regarding quoting whole sections of rules.

belgarath97
30-10-2011, 12:56
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound sarcastic or condescending. It just strikes me from the OP that there are a whole lot of things that are unclear or misinterpreted and correcting them would require so many specific rules point that I would not feel comfortable that I could do anything without violating ToS regarding quoting whole sections of rules.

Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure the OP didn't just ignore the suggestion.

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:01
I suggest you re-read Vermnous Valour.
It says that you pick which character goes to the back if you refuse a challenge, not your opponent. Don't forget that you have to return to the front rank, the following CC phase.
And by the time Challenges are issued, the Magic Phase is long gone already.
Other than that, I don't really understand your post.

maybe i didn't make it clear? the movement was in my turn, standing and waiting to be charged, after 1 round of combat i could skitterleap the hell out of there if it was critical...... quite simple actually :)

RealMikeBob
01-11-2011, 17:04
I suggest you re-read Vermnous Valour.
It says that you pick which character goes to the back if you refuse a challenge, not your opponent.

Maybe I'm reading the wrong bit but it doesn't say that at all in my Skaven book. Did it get changed in an errata? Because it would be rather useful if it now works that way.

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:09
Umm, wow... Just... Wow...

I'm going to start with echoing the suggestion to reread verminous valor. Then I might just say go bleach your brain and start again with the 8th edition rule book. Read abotu line of sight. Read about casting restrictions. Read about challenges. Read about placement of characters in the unit. Read about spell selection and then look at your army book for specifics about defaulting spells.

haha :D real funny! ^^ but i was being serious :) i wrote that i could only go to the back if i refuses a challenge? so dont need to read up on that.. line of sight, well yeah, i needed your opinion, but was pretty sure i could see **** from behind - i think i will go with this taken your bad response... casting restrictions, i dont know what your talking about? i was giving examples??.. challenges, well i just told you, i got that straight from the beginning?!??.. and placements... well.. argh you see where im going... thanks anyway........

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:12
Maybe I'm reading the wrong bit but it doesn't say that at all in my Skaven book. Did it get changed in an errata? Because it would be rather useful if it now works that way.

it says that :) ... and its good if you want to avoid getting killed, but with no line of sight its not as useful as i hoped :)

RealMikeBob
01-11-2011, 17:30
it says that :) ... and its good if you want to avoid getting killed, but with no line of sight its not as useful as i hoped :)

Interesting. Mine says the unit can continue to use their Ld, but nothing suggest I get to choose who gets sent to the back. I must be going blind (or there was a reprinted edition :confused: ) Can you give me the exact page?

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:38
p 33... ow your right, it doesnt say that you can choose who goes to the back.... he :).. but ! you can choose who "accepts/declines" and then you can move him to the back.. i think this is how it works :)

RealMikeBob
01-11-2011, 17:39
p 33... ow your right, it doesnt say that you can choose who goes to the back.... he :).. but ! you can choose who "accepts/declines" and then you can move him to the back.. i think this is how it works :)

No it's not unfortunately. If you decline, your opponent picks who leaves the front.

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:47
ow okay, then i dont know why he say so? :) i cant find the other thing in my armybook

karse88
01-11-2011, 17:48
hahaha maybe he should re-read verminous valour himself, before he starts talking s* :p

jaxom
02-11-2011, 20:20
haha :D real funny! ^^ but i was being serious :) i wrote that i could only go to the back if i refuses a challenge? so dont need to read up on that.. line of sight, well yeah, i needed your opinion, but was pretty sure i could see **** from behind - i think i will go with this taken your bad response... casting restrictions, i dont know what your talking about? i was giving examples??.. challenges, well i just told you, i got that straight from the beginning?!??.. and placements... well.. argh you see where im going... thanks anyway........

Well, no. I really don't see where you're going.

In your original post you make a reference to needing to be in front to use both. No idea where it comes from but it is flat out wrong.

It's hard to tell whether or not you think refusing a challenge is going to save you. If you have a single character in the unit I don't challenge unless I am WoC. If you have multiple characters in the unit then it depends on whether or not I can kill both of them on the first turn or think I need to send one back to protect my own unit. You're ambiguous enough about what you think is really going to happen that it's not even clear what you think is the initial situation, much less after the charge.

If you take a level 2 Warlock and a Grey Seer then it kinda depends what spells you want the Seer to have but you *never* have a problem getting Warp Lightning and should not have a problem getting Skitterleap if that is really a priority for you.

The nature of your questions sounded a whole lot to me like someone who is dragging a lot of parts of 7th into the mix and as a result, my suggestion was bleach and a fresh start on the 8th edition rules. If you feel that is not the case, then perhaps you should attempt to clarify your question?

karse88
03-11-2011, 18:59
argh, this webpage is not for americans only, maybe, its my english - we need a world language?.. i can teach you guys my language and i can explain my plan to the end :) hehe ... "In your original post you make a reference to needing to be in front to use both. No idea where it comes from but it is flat out wrong." - i can cast warplightning - under the right conditions, standing from the back, after refusing a challenge - fine, now i got that straight! :)
and, i dont know what to do, i ask you guys!? :) - i think i will go out of the unit with engineers, so they dont get chopped to bits - if necessary :)
i hope you understand this, im doing my best here.
and yes, i can get both spells, but i want to use my lvl 4 on plague, and lvl 2 on ruin... why do you say that i have good chances for getting both? you think i will use both wizards in ruin?.. i can substitute 1 spell to warplightning, and i have 2 dices.. there is a chance ?..
but never mind, i got my answers

jaxom
04-11-2011, 17:22
Just rolling for a level2 Engineer gives you a 30+% chance. If you take 1 spell in Ruin with the Seer then it is better than 20% and the Engineer is, in turn, 36% on his own for better than a 50% chance of both.

I understand your frustration with language and if it is any consolation I would not have guessed that you were not a native English speaker from you initial post.

eron12
04-11-2011, 22:43
i can cast warplightning - under the right conditions, standing from the back, after refusing a challenge - fine, now i got that straight! :)


After the close combat phase the character moves back to the front rank, long before the next magic phase. So no, you can't cast it from the back because the character will never be in the back when spells are being cast.

Glen_Savet
05-11-2011, 18:03
After the close combat phase the character moves back to the front rank, long before the next magic phase. So no, you can't cast it from the back because the character will never be in the back when spells are being cast.

Do they? I was under the impression that they had to make way to get back to the front, if the unit was still in combat. If they were out of combat or if there were combat reforms taking place, then yes, they had to go to the front.

karse88
06-11-2011, 20:19
After the close combat phase the character moves back to the front rank, long before the next magic phase. So no, you can't cast it from the back because the character will never be in the back when spells are being cast.

under the right conditions.. given that he challenges again and i refuses?!.. or am i mistaken?
thank you, i do my best when i have to describe problems in here...

and about the skills.. maybe i have a good chance, getting the spells i want - but i want the seer to have a LOT of plague spells... i will figure out another way! :)