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thesoundofmusica
28-10-2011, 06:41
Been away from the game since 5th ed and looking to start up again. Was abit turned off at first about some of the rules but with some clarification I'm now really looking forward to it. Also prices seemed steep but battalion packs are now available for everyone and are quite nice.

This is a fresh start and I've narrowed it down to empire or beastmen. Preferably beastmen. I think they look cool and would be totally new to me. However, the army seems to really lack choices and some models arent available from GW, is that really right or did I just miss something? Also I'm afraid they might become boring to play with a huge focus on infantry blocks and little else. I dont want to have just a single viable tactic.

Help me out here guys :)

Maskedman5oh4
28-10-2011, 06:46
Empire does everything very average- but they have alot of mean artillery.

Beastmen are so completely different.

Beastmen have alot of book imbalance- so units are completely unviable. I would wait for a new Beasts book if you like the models- that makes them easier to paint.

mrtn
28-10-2011, 08:08
Yes, beastmen are missing some models (the big rares and some special characters) but there's a rumour that they've been done and will be released (I think the rumour implied December, but I might be wrong on that). It's also so that the models missing are the ones that are imbalanced and too expensive points wise, so you're not missing out on anything. Personally I usually don't run any Rares in my army anyway.
However most of the rares are available from third-party-manufacturers.

While the infantry heavy army is the most common one there are also people playing the so-called minobus (minos and mino characters) or the centigor-Core army you get from Ghorros Warhoof. I think the army is very fun to play.

I always tell people to start the army with the coolest models so this case should be easy, go beastmen! Beastmen are also very open to conversion if you like the hobby aspect of the game, since they are mutants you can include all things weird and wonderful. In my army I include (apart from the beastmen themselves of course) bits from chaos warriors, marauders, bloodletters, ogres, kroot, lizardmen as well as other manufacturers, and I have birdmen, pigmen, lionmen, lizard-men, flymen, wolfmen and maybe more I've forgotten in the army.

PS: Take a look at the Herdstone forum, see the link in my signature.

Andy p
28-10-2011, 11:12
There arent enough beastmen in the world....

And in the game.

popisdead
28-10-2011, 20:20
Beastmen are a more fun army to win with and you don't have a wall of artillery and steam tank to make your opponent frown when you show up.

Plus the infantry models are pretty sweet and it is gratifying to win with Beastmen.

There are three popular builds:
Gors & Bestigors
Minobus
Ghorros MSU with stompy or impacty things.

If you like the Beastmen models and are willing to put some effort into learning the army I recommend you check out The Herdstone forums (http://z2.invisionfree.com/herdstone/index.php?act=idx) which has a wealth of information, army lists, and helpful players.

As for missing models, rarely to people use the missing Special Characters, or Rare models. The only thing you may be required to build from scratch is a Shard of the Herdstone but you can start without one.

With their core rule, Primal Fury, you can build an army around reliably causing a lot of wounds :)

Hope that helps.

Korraz
28-10-2011, 20:25
Beastmen are a more fun army to win with and you don't have a wall of artillery and steam tank to make your opponent frown when you show up.


That's a blatant lie.
There's basically nothing you can't do with Empire. If you go gunline, it's your own fault, because you are missing out the world of fun that hunters, outriders, pistoliers and Flagellants open to you.

mrtn
28-10-2011, 23:18
That's a blatant lie.


No, it's a blatant truth. Whatever Beastmen army you show up with, I can guarantee that it won't include steamtanks and a wall of artillery. :p

thesoundofmusica
28-10-2011, 23:42
Thx for input guys =)

I will be regularly playing brets (my wife) and VC (bud) if that's a factor at all?

Maskedman5oh4
29-10-2011, 01:32
No, it's a blatant truth. Whatever Beastmen army you show up with, I can guarantee that it won't include steamtanks and a wall of artillery. :p

True.

Beastmen will not show up with a gunline.



Beastmen are a more fun army to win with and you don't have a wall of artillery and steam tank to make your opponent frown when you show up.

Confused.

What is more fun than shooting things with artillery?

Rosstifer
29-10-2011, 01:42
Confused.

What is more fun than shooting things with artillery?

Everything else in the game? :D

Korraz
29-10-2011, 07:07
If nothing else, it's more fun than slogging forward and trying to hit stuff with an overpriced poop stick that has either a bad, or no model at all. :angel:

mrtn
29-10-2011, 07:15
If nothing else, it's more fun than slogging forward and trying to hit stuff with an overpriced poop stick that has either a bad, or no model at all. :angel:

Well, good then that the thread isn't about if Korraz should start a beastmen army, since obviously you wouldn't enjoy it. :angel:

Personally I think that all the models that matter in the army, to me, looks great. This is the infantry, both bestigors, ungor and gors are great. The models that look bad I either don't use, or use a good looking alternative (like Heresy's Hellbeasts instead of razorgors). :)

Korraz
29-10-2011, 07:25
Heavens, no. I tried that and it was a disaster. But saying that Beasts are more fun to play because Empire can only do gunlines is just plain wrong. It's like saying that Beasts can only field Gors and Bestigors.

peukestas
29-10-2011, 08:42
50 halberdiers boosted with Lore of beasts/Light are fun too!!!!
...or 40 greatscwords with 20-halberdier detatchments on each side
...or 10 knights with great weapons and some crazy banner
...or block of flagelants with priest + melee detatchment
Generally detatchment and cheap khights are great fun to play with!

(did I mentioned anything about shooting?)

thesoundofmusica
30-10-2011, 17:48
Thx guys for all input and trying to keep it civil ;)

I've been checking out the armies more thoroughly and watching many youtube battlereports and decided to dump empire. It's now beastmen or lizardmen, and atm I'm leaning towards lizardmen. Both armies seem to be kind of restricted in choice but maybe that's just because I used to play empire and O&G. I can live with that tho, both look great on the battlefield and generally the units appeal to me... stegadon, slann and kroxigor seem particularly cool. Still I wont be buying any book for a month or so and got some questions for you warhammer savvy ppl =)

1) How balanced is the lizardmen list? The slann seems to be very powerful, I hope lizardmen perform out of magic phase aswell and is not just a filler to keep the slann alive.

2) Is beastmen magic on par with lizardmen? Maybe all armies have strong magic phases in 8th?

3) Is there any reason why beastmen or lizardmen would do better against brets and VC (who will be my regular opponents)? I'm not looking to have an edge but wouldnt really like an uphill battle every time either.

4) Anything you can think of that's awesome about your lizardman/beastman army that I might have overlooked =D

I'm really psyched about getting into the game again, and if I only had the time for it I'd be doing 3-4 armies, they all have something cool about em =D

Bingo the Fun Monkey
30-10-2011, 20:38
1) In my very limited experience, the Lizardmen list is balanced and diverse. I haven't seen anyone take Cold One Cavalry, however. People seem to be all about the Slaan these days, but I have faced a Carnosaur mounted lord (which was an exceptionally fun game for my Blorc Big Boss on Chariot). I for one enjoy playing AGAINST Lizardmen and would do so more often if I could.

2) No. They don't have the diversity of access to spell lores that Lizardmen do. However, neither army lives or dies by the Magic Phase- unless you want it to. Lizardmen have a predictably stronger Magic Phase.

3) Beastmen can throw a wrench into a Bretonnian's battle plan with Ambush. However they cannot really take a charge as only an idiot Bretonnian would actually charge his/her "bus" into Steadfast Ungors. Lizardmen are Cold-Blooded which makes the VC's Fear even more useless, as they roll an extra dice when taking Ld checks and drop the highest.

4) Although i've been playing OnG since 2004, I still have an older Beastman army. I cannot stress how cool Beastman models are and what a joy they are to paint (and more importantly, convert). Although I've been praising Lizardmen for most of this post, I'd suggest you go Beastmen. They're rare, have a steep learning curve and are extremely rewarding. Why don't I play Beastmen now? I dunno, my OnG speak to me more. But I can remember fondly to when the mutant beasts of the wild were my "thing".

mrtn
30-10-2011, 21:51
The Slann is one of the best casters in the whole game, so no beastmen can't match him. That said beastmen does have a good magic phase, with Herdstone Shard and Miasma spam as a popular option, as well as very good synergy with the lores of Beast and Shadow.

Beastmen should work well against both VC and Brettonians, since beastmen is a close combat army. They want to be in close combat, and at least VC doesn't have too much ranged threats. A big unit of bestigors can be trusted to make a bunch of wounds against anyone with the help of Primal Fury (brilliant rule!) and S6 great weapons.

4) Did anyone talk about Primal Fury yet? Basically there's a very big chance that beastmen will have Hatred every round. The chances of a beastmen unit fluffing their attacks is quite low. Can you give them some augments (and/or curse their opponent) they'll carve through you like butter. :)

popisdead
31-10-2011, 21:12
Heavens, no. I tried that and it was a disaster.

Ah, I see.

I wasn't implying Empire only ran gun lines. However I would like to see an Empire army that wasn't Priest/Halberdier spam strictly because the player wasn't using his ranged fire or stank.

The first thing people do when they play Empire is take the strong units of the game. I don't know the names of the Lords but there is one that is the LD boost lord (overfighty, priest, caster)? When was the last time someone took that choice?

thesoundofmusica
01-11-2011, 10:28
It's going to be lizardmen for me. Overall I like the army look and some specific models alot like krox, steg etc. Also their alignment fits me better (the roleplayer in me lol) and atm they seem better supported. Thx everyone for your time and input :)

ImperiusDominatus
01-11-2011, 23:15
The first thing people do when they play Empire is take the strong units of the game.
That happens with every army. You are always going to see the stronger choices in an army list more often than the weaker ones, regardless of who you're playing against.

Shooting things with war machines can be great fun, especially if you take things like the Helblaster or Helstorm, which have potential to do massive damage but also a fairly good chance to simply blow up in your face. Also, am I the only one that noticed the common trend in this game that when something becomes even remotely effective it immediately gets branded as "boring"? Then anybody who likes that aspect of the game gets immediately looked down on and condescended to.

Korraz
01-11-2011, 23:28
Ah, I see.

I wasn't implying Empire only ran gun lines. However I would like to see an Empire army that wasn't Priest/Halberdier spam strictly because the player wasn't using his ranged fire or stank.

The first thing people do when they play Empire is take the strong units of the game. I don't know the names of the Lords but there is one that is the LD boost lord (overfighty, priest, caster)? When was the last time someone took that choice?

General, and I take him every time, because I like LD 10 and he's cheap.

Halberds are taken because there are only three (four with Flaggs, but that's another matter) CC core units on foot and the other two aren't really good. You can play Spears or Knights of you have something special in mind, but a horde of halberdiers is a solid backbone that allows you to go wild with stuff like Detachments, Outriders and so on. I really don't get your complaint, it's just natural that you don't want to handicap yourself, especially if you have to deal with the horrible State Troop models. It's not like picking good units is something only Empire players do.

thesoundofmusica
19-11-2011, 23:12
Hello again.

I apologize sincerely for the necro, just wanted to say that I did initially buy a pack of saurus warriors, painted them up but they just felt so uninspiring. And the more I visited that Herdstone forum the more it grew on me. So couple of days ago I went to the local GW store to pick up some brushes for a bud and there they were.... calling to me. Beastmen lol. Bought a pack of Gors and Bestigors and this is what they'll look like... kinda... ish. Abit dark and dirty maybe and not too photogenic but I like it myself. Also finished the Bestigor standardbearer but no pics coz batteries are out on my iphone and I got no idea what to paint on the banner yet anyways =)

So thanks to everyone!

Jack of Blades
19-11-2011, 23:20
I think the two beastmen on the left look awesome. Really, I now understand why people play beastmen, particularily from the face of the 2nd from the left. The two on the left don't fit next to them. I'd use the ones with calmer expressions for ambushing :)

thesoundofmusica
20-11-2011, 09:26
Yes if they cant be bothered to work up a frenzy before battle I'll hide them in the back =D

Bestigor standard bearer... I'll have to lurk abit to find inspiration for the banner... also my free hand painting is really sub-par, it'll be a real challenge =O

the_slosh
21-11-2011, 10:49
Glad you necroed this thread to show us your purty Beasties! (good choice! :D)

What could help you out though with the bases is to put some sand on them before you paint them green/whatever, just to make them pop a bit more

Welcome to the poopy side! :evilgrin:

thesoundofmusica
21-11-2011, 12:50
Thx I might try something like that, you're right tho I put very little effort into bases :0

the_slosh
21-11-2011, 13:42
Thx I might try something like that, you're right tho I put very little effort into bases :0

It's a shame, because your painting is very nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WcdP9yc1XK4 = super simple guide

1. PvA (Wood glue) spread across the base
2. Dip in sand
3. Wait for it to dry then paint :) (also if you paint your base edges a colour like graveyard earth instead of goblin green it makes the model pop even more!)

Keep up the good work

mrtn
21-11-2011, 16:18
I agree with the_slosh, the beastmen are cool but let down by the bases. Nice start on your gors though! And welcome to the bestial side. ;)