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Lady's Champion
03-06-2005, 15:42
Hey fella-me-dogs

My next army shall be Imperial Guard and I was thinking of doing the Macragge PDF but, what do you guys think they would be like?

I'm think Ultramarine Blue armour...

But army composition wise?

Typheron
03-06-2005, 15:51
I dunno if they would have ultramarine blue armour, there a PDF and although they help to protect the homeworld of the Ultramarines there still a IG force by nature and the IG like there cammo.

Adept
03-06-2005, 15:55
Hey fella-me-dogs

My next army shall be Imperial Guard and I was thinking of doing the Macragge PDF but, what do you guys think they would be like?

I'm think Ultramarine Blue armour...

But army composition wise?

Lotsa high-tech gizmos. Carapace armour, camelioline, definately preferred enemy: tyranids. Buyback stormtroopers and maybe special weapons squads.

Maybe take Grenadiers for troops. I imagine the Macragge PDF would be pretty top-notch in terms of training.

I don't imagine they would need, or make much use of abhumans or commisars.

Lady's Champion
03-06-2005, 16:55
I guess Preferred Enemy Tyranids woudln't even need to be sculpted on lol

I was thinking maybe having the commanders as marine scouts (in Rogue Trader days there were references to trainee marines leading army squads)

Not a good idea?

Minister
04-06-2005, 00:07
Not a good idea. The Sacred Codex demands sepperation of forces at anything less than army group level, and as the Ultramarines' Primach wrote the thing they are hardly the ones to be breaking it.

McBain
05-06-2005, 15:00
in the nightbringer novels they talk of the training garrisons where the future ultra smurfs are recruited. They speak of it as a cadet traing centre, so you would expect them to have many commisars to enforce the rules of the imperium and as stated they would be better equipped than ur average guards regiment.

Lord of ???
05-06-2005, 19:55
I can see the Ultramarines helping out the PDF with training but they would fight as seperate units and not together.

IIRC in the Ultramarines series of books the PDF wore camo with Ultramarine Blue epolettes.(sp.?)

And the honour guard of the PDF would look like Mordians in Flashy Ultramarine colours with lots of gold threading.

But IMHO the PDF would be Camo with a single Blue Shoulder Pad with their Squad markings and army group displayed on it and the Ultramarine U on the other shoulder pad or on the Chest plate on the left hand side.

Pertinax
05-06-2005, 20:05
I guess that the camo fatigues would eb warzone-dependent. Along with the helmet and flak armour. They are soldiers, after all.

Having said that, I would do their left shoulderpad blue, with a small U on it, and maybe their regiment number. That is, of course, if you are planning to use the Cadian figures.

Composition wise, I think that I would build up an army list that does not use abhumans, but relies more on man-power than anything else. I'm not discounting tanks, they have their place too. But they are a PDF force, and they should be numerous. Especially on a militaristic world like Macragge.

Minister
07-06-2005, 09:50
Mmmm...

Storm Troopers are possible, but not likley. The best recruits, those who would be in the Kasyrkin if on a world like Cadia, have already gone through the Ultramarines selection process. Besides that, I can't se a PDF being bothered to keep those hellguns working.
Abhumans are a big no-no, simply because there are none in Ultramar in the first place
Carapace is not that likley, as I see them sticking to standard weapons fit in most respects, and it's a git to convert a whole army anyways.

Plenty infantry, go easy on the commissars (firstly because only Ultramar Guard regiments would be asigned them, not PDF, secondly because they will have minimal need and thirdly because it's a stretch having even one in a company-scale action). Armour and veteran units to taste.

Darius Rhiannon
07-06-2005, 14:31
Firstly, PDF regiments would not have commissars. These are assigned upon the raising/forming of a regiment. So no Commissars in PDF's except perhaps Terrax PDF units. Becuase Terrax is a Munistorum World and has a very large Schola Progenium presence.

Carapace Armour would be acceptable for a Ultramarine PDF, as the Ultramarines are the "humanist" space marines, they would also take steps to ensure that their soldiers would have protection to survive.

I would say the following doctrines
Carapace Armour
Iron Discipline
Close Order Drill
Tyranid Fighters
Sharpshooters.

This would be the Ultramar PDF schooled to the ideals of be all you can be...

Sai-Lauren
07-06-2005, 16:22
I'd actually say something like the Cadian doctrine list wouldn't be too far off for PDFs of Ultramar (which also includes the vassal worlds the UM control don't forget).


I guess Preferred Enemy Tyranids woudln't even need to be sculpted on lol
Yes it does I'm afraid. It's to stop people taking preferred enemy against whoever they're fighting.

Heads are one way, but probably too barbaric for Ultramar, but things like termagant claws as knives, or a hormagaunt talon as a power weapon could look very cool indeed if done right.

Khaine's Messenger
07-06-2005, 17:03
On PDF's and Commissars--erm, yes, they can have them. Remember the Great Hero of Vervunhive? Some influential worlds have Commissariat annexes for the purposes of streamlining the regimental formation process in addition to ensuring the loyalty of local forces. It is true that not all worlds have such annexes, of course, but as one of the more heavily settled and defended sub-empires within the Imperium, I'd say it's fairly well-assured that the Ultras would be able to have Commissars at their disposal. One might argue that their soldiers would be sufficiently motivated by the fact that they are Ultramar PDF (oo-rah!), but at the very least a regimental Commissar couldn't hurt, especially if he's been weened on Ultramar regiments before and understands the mindset, much like how Commissars almost feel like they're behind the curve when they show up for their assignment with a Cadian regiment.

I would steer clear of carapace armor, though. Not much point in it, in my opinion. It only serves to make the PDF "look" more like Space Marines, while the two organizations have fundamentally different standard operating procedures and different understandings on the importance of the individual soldier; further, remember that these guys aren't going to be fighting Space Marines on a regular basis, at least background-wise, so the extra protection would be only marginal at best. I suppose you could form a specialized Ultramar PDF, though, which would be interesting.

In my opinion, the only thing that would set Ultramar PDF'ers apart would be incredible morale and discipline (due to a great number of them receiving instruction from the Ultramarines themselves). Otherwise, they'd be approximately the quality of your average Guard (which is admittedly above most PDFs, at least in the opinion of the Guard) units.

Minister
07-06-2005, 19:33
Vervunhive had a specialised deal with the Imperium in order to assure that their standing force (which did not contribute to the Guard) did not breach the regulations. Besides, it is best to avoid any precident set by Abnet, who is a far better author than he is a fluff source.

Reguards the markings for the 'Nid Prefered Enemy, look more to the way it is done on the Tyranid Hunters. Iconography, not trophies. the citizens of Ultramar will not wander about with a festering termagaunt head stuck on their backpack, but will instead bear shoulder pads ingraved with the Litanies of Hatred and banners proclaiming their victories (recall the Ultramarines' 3rd company banner? That sort of thing.)