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morgy
16-04-2006, 12:06
Gday all
here is my list let me know what you think

Tomb King- Destroyer of Eternities and Collar of Shapesh

Hierophant Liche Priest- Cloak of dunes, Hieratic Jar

Liche Priest- 2 dispel scrolls

Liche Priest- 2 dispel scrolls

3 chariots

3 chariots

30 skellies with bows plus full command and banner of the undying legion

8 heavy horse with full command

6 carrion

2 Tomb Scorpions

4 Ushabti

2 Screaming skulls with skulls:skull: of the foe.

basic tactics are for the TK and archer unit plus ssc form a fire base supported by a liche priest and the Ushabti as a flanker

rest of army scoots up flanks to engage.....normal TK tricks like magically flying the Carrion into war machines and the like.....

lee
16-04-2006, 12:10
standard tomb kings army yawn;)

Chuffy
16-04-2006, 12:33
Tomb King- Destroyer of Eternities and Collar of Shapesh

Hierophant Liche Priest- Cloak of dunes, Hieratic Jar

Obligatory items...

I think taking a 30 strong unit of ****** bowmen with the undying legion banner is idiotic. Plus, regulating your TK to sit in this unit when he could be getting His Will Done with the chariots is also a bad idea.

Also drop the 'heavy' cav.

morgy
17-04-2006, 01:42
Thanks for the insults guys....I will know better than to post a list here again.....honestly if you have nothing to say except "standard tomb kings army yawn", why bother posting?.....some constructive criticism is welcomed and the bit about the TK in chariots was an attempt at that I see....but it is ruined by the tirade about "****** bowmen".....I have seen one of the top players in Oz use that set up in his TK army and he has won tourneys with them......drop the heavy cav you say...OK what for? and why do you say that?.......information is what i seek not keyboard jockeys putting on an air of superiority......

S0ule55
17-04-2006, 02:09
You might consider dropping the heavy cav for light cav, with a liche priest in the unit this is a seroious threat, as they can quickly get around to the flanks for charges/march blocking. 6 carrion is alittle excessive, as 3 work just as well. Chariots aren't bad, but they have serious problems with manuevering around terrain, even being fast cav. Ushabti are ok, but alittle slow for the kind of army that you're trying to build. You might consider thinning the bowmen down to 20, and drop the banner off of them. Use the points to bulk up the chariot units, maybe put commands in there. A nasty trick is to put the cloak on you TK, if you have the points. The collar is really better off on your Hierophant, who should be in the back with the archer unit.

Mad Makz
17-04-2006, 02:30
I am not a fan of the Heavy Horse unit, at 8 strong they do not that seem viable as they aren't resilent nor are good shock troops.

The 16 strong unit with warbanner is an expensive option, but much more viable as it is a fast unit with a 32 fear causing unit size that has a static 6 combat resolution versus most things ( 3 ranks, outnumber, banner, Warbanner) and probably 7 against infantry as u are likely to flank with them due to incantations.

Something to consider as another option if you can weed out the points.

Alternatively, consider that you are actually better off taking 5 with a standard and the warbanner than you would be taking 8, as it gives you a better flanking unit to back up your bowmen (2 combat resolution of the bat, as long as you have 3 models left, whereas the 8 strong unit only has to lose one model to lose a rank bonus, and isn't going to do any more damage in combat than a 5 man.)

Keep them hidden behind the archers/ushabti/chariots so they can't get targetted with shooting early then move them into a position to offer a flank charge against units that engage the archers late game.

I know you plan to use the Ushabti for that use, but really the Ushabti are better used elsewhere. As a unit they can hold agains an opposing charge, both cavalry and infantry, and will deal back some damage much better than either your chariots or cav can, so they can work kind of like a unit of infantry (move them forward, while thereatening flanks with the chariots, if people move to take a frontal charge from the chariots, compell the Ushabti forward to threaten that units flanks. Try that with 8 Skeleton Horseman and the opposition will just shoot/magic the horsemen off the board so they don't have to worry about them. It's a lot harder to get rid of 4 Ushabti/3 Chariots (each being toughness 4 with more wounds) so they work better in conjunction.

Another thought where are you hiding your liche priests?

If you are putting them in the big unit of Skeletons, then they are not going to be compelling your combat units and if anyone engages that unit of skeletons they are going to be the targetted by everyone in base to base so can be killed by a suicide unit.

If you put them near the big unit of skeletons, you have to worry about non magic missile spells too much. Also, you will only have your heirophant with any sort of range to compel your fast units which will leave him stranded in places he is likely to get killed (you need to be within 4" of a unit with 5 or more MODELS in it to not get targetted by regular shooting. You only have 1 unit that can fulfill this role, leaving you few options for their flexibility).

If you are only using them to compell the Skull chuckers, consider replacing one with a Tomb Prince, and attach him as a character to the skull chucker so he can use my will be done on them. It's cheaper, makes both Skull chuckers a heck of a lot harder to silence with opposing flyers/scouts/tunnellers (they'll be near each other so if one gets charged you can counter charge the unit with the tomb prince, and then recrew/raise the crew back once the threat is gone), and is by and large just as good at the spell casting (compelling spell chuckers is really just there to draw out dispel dice early. 1 or 2 dice makes little difference in effect. Actually if they are having to roll high they will just let the Skull Chucker go, but if they only have to use one or two dice to definitely dispel dice, you will probably draw a dice you wouldn't have got otherwise, which is actually better for you because then your incantations you NEED to get off (the movment ones) will have the better chance of working.

Plus if you fighting against an army without good scouts or flyers, you can chuck him in to the archer unit if you want to add even more combat power (and use his incantation to move/shoot with those archers as well as the tomb kings.)

Unlike others I don't think the bowmen are a bad idea personally, they aren't good in combat, but they are just a unit to hold up the enemy anyway, and you might as well have them shooting whilte they are waiting around to be engaged rather than just sitting there doing nothing.

No one is going to wipe out 30 Skeletons in one turn, ESPECIALLY not with a Tomb King with the Destroyer of eternities in the front rank, so they will do their job fine. If you have the option of adding another tomb prince in the unit (as above) they become quite a monster unit to deal with. One thing you can also do in that regard is if you have the tomb prince manning a skull chucker he can leave the skull chucker and compel himself to join the archers in one turn as long as they are within 8" of the skull chuckers. Most people won't try and stop you using the dice to do that, so you get the best of both woulds (extra combat for the archers, extra shooting early for the skull chucker).

The only thing you lose out on is the dispelling power. That IS a bit rough, but you can take the Great brooch of the desert (enchanted item dispel scroll) on him so you only lose out on one dispel scroll and one dice, and considering the points saved and the added versatility it gives your army, I think that is a very fair trade.

morgy
17-04-2006, 02:40
Thank you veru much Mad Makz and Soule55, just the stuff I am after.....ok well how about i drop the skellies down to 20.....change the heavy cav to light and put a liche priest on steed with them......i could drop one liche priest and take a prince in a chariot to lead the chariots......the Hierphant wiht the cloak is the one who will be using his movement to stay out of trouble but also to get into postion to help wherever he is needed.....thanks again guys

Mad Makz
17-04-2006, 03:24
I wouldn't drop the skeletons down to 20 if you still want them to perform any sort of combat role, you need the extra numbers for the survivability and outnumbering with fear causers. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I would question the worth of having a tomb king with the destroyer of eternities in the unit if it's not going to operate in a somewhat agressive manner.

A tomb prince with the chariots is a good option to get a more flexible list, but the thing I would suggest first is trying to determine your overall tactics, because if you are going that route you may want a Tomb King in a chariot and just a Tomb Prince in the skeleton unit to give it added survivability but not be quite as big a point sink.

More than any other army tomb kings have to work as a single cohesive force. You simply can not afford to let any of your units get stranded or to take the fight too far away from your other units/lichepriests as the army is incredibly easy to take apart piecemeal.

This doesn't mean you have to be an all infantry or all cavalry list only (though making that choice can simplify matters) but what it does mean is that you have to think about where your units and lich priests are going to be on the table every turn of the game, even while making your army list. If your army is built in such a way that you can't keep it operating in cohesion from turn 1 through 6 you are going to find it very hard to win games against good opponents.

For this reason I can't really comment about the viability of the individual changes you have mentioned unless you explain how you plan to operate the army across the course of the game, because unlike other armies it's often not very obvious what the best way to use Tomb King units are.

For example:

I am currently taking an army with two units of 5 chariots, a unit of 24 Tomb Guard with the Icon of Rakaph and a unit of Ushabti as my main combat units, including a tomb king on chariot. I have found rather than advancing the Chariots to operate like a fighting wing early game and try to roll a flank, it's actually much better to hold the chariots back while using incantations to advance the Ushabti and Tomb Guard as much as possible early game up the centre.

Then if the opposing army moves to envelope these forces, I can easily flank with my chariots, OR if they advance towards my chariots, there force gets split apart as some units get bogged down by the Tomb Guard and Ushabti in the middle and the other advancing units get whittled down by shooting/magic (skull chucker and Casket of Souls in my case.). Also as the Tomb guard have the Icon of Rakaph they can pretty much control a 12" radius around them, so by moving the forward tothe centre of the table top they get the most opportunity to disrupt my opponents forces.

By looking at the list it looks like I would be playing relatively aggressive with the two big units of chariots, when in actuality my plan has become to hold off charging with them for as long as possible. By doing this I keep the overall distance between my infantry and chariots comparatively small, so I can keep a better chain of command between all my spell casters.

TheDrugLordX
17-04-2006, 10:12
I havn't had time (energy really:angel: ) to read through all the other replies, but as a veteran TK player (I think :P) I might give you my oppinion.

1) I used to run a exactly identical king in a unit of 40 skellies. This unit was MARVELOUS, no one ever killed more than 50% of the unit, nor killed the king. Even though I only used 2 priests. I did though use hand weapon + shield instead of bows. If the bows don't work, try going with hand weapons + shields (for resiliance).

2) IMO 4 scrolls is a little to much. Might come in handy against Magic Heavy Armies but I think that going mage hunting with scorps/carrion is the better way to go here. I would go more offensive, I think someone mentioned to drop the heavy cav for light cav, I agree with that. 6 Light Cav + mounted Priest with Staff of Ravening. Combine the staff with the magic missile spell and he'll surprise you with how much damage he can do. Not to mention that this gives you some more manouverble magic.

3) 6 carrion...? A little big unit perhaps. Drop 2 to make points for skelies.

Otherwise, nice list. Good luck with it!;)

The_powers_of_chaos
17-04-2006, 10:30
to many liche priests who arent good in combat drop some of them

Chuffy
17-04-2006, 10:32
but it is ruined by the tirade about "****** bowmen".....

But they are ******...they won't do much shooting damage and won't do very well in CC. Plus the unit is just too big and unwieldy for a missle unit.


drop the heavy cav you say...OK what for? and why do you say that?.......

'Heavy' cavalry is a bit of misnomer in the TK army. These guys don't have a good armour save, don't hit very hard, are not very fast and cost quite a few points. Plus, a unit of eight is just a pointsink, what are you getting for those extra 4 horsemen? Another rank? For 74 points? If you are going to take TK 'heavy' cav, take flanking units of five.

As for the rest of the army I don't think you need carrion AND Scorpions, they both fufill the warmachine eating role. Plus if you get rid of one of these you can take more Ushabti. Also a unit of 6 carrion seems a bit large.

Plus you do not need 4 dispell scrolls, you have 3 level 2's, thats more than enough magic defence.

Aekold
17-04-2006, 19:09
Well i use a unit whit the king in. And hes havin the collar and Destroyer! and the 40 strong skel unit whit Shields, LA, hand weapons and a banner of undying legion. NOTHING ever has taken that unit. i just moved thru all the armies like an great scythe.

Anyways, im gonna use 8 ligt cav whit a lich in. whit the good staff.

And i never had any of mine liches killed. cause they are always in 4 iches of my unit therefore cannot be targeted. ^^


Ill post some more tips later =)