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View Full Version : tesla carbine- model not matching the feel of the rules?



tu33y
02-11-2011, 09:20
normally i think GW get their weapon design and the rules for them spot on,with design and fucntion and rules syching

anyway, i was looking at the weapons profile in the new WD and everything seemed cool, and i liked the design of the new weapons... i REALLY like the design of the Tesla carbine, but i HATE the name, and im not sure the rules fit the look of the weapon.

a carbine (pronounced as in whine, not bean) is a shortened, compact rifle. for instance, the Catachan lasgun is very much a Carbine version of the cadian lasgun. as is the steel legion one.

plus the way it is held is not really saying "carbine" to me, or even "Assault".

it looks like it would take a little aiming and effort to use, and definatley looks like it would be difficult, even for a space robot, to use on the move.

MAYBE there was another, different weapon designed, as a compact assault weapon, but it was binned in the design process?

all im saying is, the LOOK of that necron weapon says to me probably "Heavy 1, melta, S8, AP1, 18inch range", like a devastator weapon, and that would be cool.

but the name Tesla carbine matches its stats, which are assault 1 or whatever.

iv had trouble getting my point over (its early) but do you ge what i mean?

madden
02-11-2011, 09:32
Yes I get you but I don't agree look at the lightning guns from matrix 2 (I think) they are chunky pieces but seem aiming is secondary to volume of shots and if it's described as an electric/lightning thrower it works as rolls of 6 get extra hits.

Thinking on it they totally ripped of the design from the movie.

tu33y
02-11-2011, 09:33
hmmm i thought they were like them too... as well as the las-cutters from the elysian lists...

Azulthar
02-11-2011, 10:41
Imagine the Tesla Destructor (I believe the thing mounted on the Annihilation barge) being the first Tesla weapon developed. The Tesla "Carbine" is definitely a shorter, more compact version of that. Compact enough to be carried by infantry, even :p

It's probably pretty heavy, but Immortals don't tire...and they're Assault because the lightning it fires is drawn to the metals carried by the enemy, making it easy to fire on the move as it doesn't require much aiming.

I'm making this all up of course, but that's how it makes sense in my head :p

ctsteel
02-11-2011, 11:26
The use of 'Tesla' I find a little jarring since this is a terminology derived from a scientists name, that we don't really use even now - so why would a 64 million year old race, that has technology named by a post-post-post-post apocalyptic/war torn/reunified/re-war torn interstellar empire with 40,000 years of lost information, use that name?

Although I get the same thing in some of the Horus Heresy novels - they keep referring to cultures and sayings/people from our time, as if that sort of information is commonplace 30,000 years from now. Seriously?

tu33y
02-11-2011, 11:29
imperial designation? [pours oil on fire]

lol x

tu33y
02-11-2011, 11:31
because of course, every codex is written from the Emporers POV...

ctsteel
02-11-2011, 11:35
I get the Imperial designation part (I tried to include that in my drawn out description but wasn't too clear) but as I say it doesn't mesh with the sort of information loss that has occurred over 30 millennia, with a lot of stuff being lost to wars and time, with the Ad Mech trying vainly to save this stuff from old Earth before the emperor rose, and then losing most of it themselves in ancient data stacks and hidden vaults. They only just located some of their STC templates and information, but they have the name and usage of a concept that is from the 20th century?

I am sure it's just to create affinity with the people playing the game - if we know what it means, then we can identify with its use/purpose. But a more generic name or description could serve the same purpose without referencing a particular factual name.

You could argue that Tesla is now a unit of measurement and has survived that way I suppose, but again it's just as possible that the Ad Mech had to re-label stuff that was lost and then reinvented/rediscovered.

Anyway, apologies for digressing from topic. Your point on the carbine is interesting since the weapons seem larger than the normal weapons the necrons are using now. More of a 'blaster' type of weapon like the Dark Eldar use (vs their normal weapons)

chromedog
02-11-2011, 11:35
I prefer "40w plasma rifle" myself.

They look more terminator endo skeleton with plasma rifle (T2) than ever, now.

LonelyPath
02-11-2011, 11:44
Imagine the Tesla Destructor (I believe the thing mounted on the Annihilation barge) being the first Tesla weapon developed. The Tesla "Carbine" is definitely a shorter, more compact version of that. Compact enough to be carried by infantry, even :p

That sounds like a plausable argument to me so I'm siding with this guy ;)

Haravikk
02-11-2011, 11:57
I'm more concerned by the fact that the weapons of an ancient race that predates humanity are named after a human…

Sir_Turalyon
02-11-2011, 11:58
The use of 'Tesla' I find a little jarring since this is a terminology derived from a scientists name,

A *sciencist*? Tesla? Come on. Actualy, naming a gun that is theoretically impossible to work after Tesla makes some thematic sense. Surely more than naming Gauss weapons after XVIII century mathemathican and physicist...

Jedi152
02-11-2011, 12:00
I think GW are way past what makes sense, and they're now on what sounds cool.

I wouldn't put it past designers to stick 'gun' into a thesaurus and see what comes out.

tu33y
02-11-2011, 12:06
we don't call machine guns Maxims tho, do we?

lol@jedi152 by the way x

AmKhaibitu
02-11-2011, 12:14
I prefer "40w plasma rifle" myself.

They look more terminator endo skeleton with plasma rifle (T2) than ever, now.

No no, that's terminator 1 when he's asked what he's after.
As it is, that would be incredibly low power and not exactly a shining example of sci-fi naming.

It's still way better than GW.

Thoras
02-11-2011, 12:17
Tesla... they played C&C Red Alert, thought "that's cool" and went with it.

RobPro
02-11-2011, 12:19
Did you really say we don't use the technology Tesla worked on today?

Lady Sepultura
02-11-2011, 12:21
normally i think GW get their weapon design and the rules for them spot on,with design and fucntion and rules syching


Is that the case? Why than is the Assault Cannon a heavy weapon while the Heavy Flamer is an assault weapon?

Xandros
02-11-2011, 12:23
Were gauss rifles any better? Come on.

Lady Sepultura
02-11-2011, 12:25
Actually makes sense in a way, that if someone at some point started with Gauss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Gauss), that a new team would try to stick with the naming-precedent.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
02-11-2011, 12:28
From a model point of view, I'd reckon that they didn't want the Tesla Immortals looking too much like the Dearhmarks who are holding their weapons on the standard to the shoulder pose, so they decided to go for the Matrix unwieldy look. I can live with it, though I'd wish they hadn't pit quite so jutting out bits on the gun and had made it looked a bit more streamlined, that would have got the "Assault" nature across better in my eyes.


Is that the case? Why than is the Assault Cannon a heavy weapon while the Heavy Flamer is an assault weapon?

Maybe because the Assault Cannon needs time to line up and fire while bracing for the massive recoil while the Heavy Flamer simply spews out burning fuel in the enemy's general direction with very little recoil? Yes the weapon names contradict what the rules are called, but the fluff matches up and the words are used in a different context and manner in both instances.

Lady Sepultura
02-11-2011, 12:34
Maybe because the Assault Cannon needs time to line up and fire while bracing for the massive recoil while the Heavy Flamer simply spews out burning fuel in the enemies general direction without any recoil? Yes the names contradict what the rules are called, but the names are used in a different context and manner to the rules titles.

True enough. Still, the naming is counter-intuitive to the "behaviour" and "role" on the table.

Also, having to work with an army where somebody 15 years ago used Gauss (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Friedrich_Gauss) in the naming of weapons, thus setting a precedent, using Tesla (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla) seems like a fair, thematic and internally coherent follow-up. If anything, "Synaptic Disintigrator" or whatever it is called would be the odd one out.

homunkulus
02-11-2011, 12:35
Were gauss rifles any better? Come on. He's nowhere near the same level in terms of awareness in the wider community. Besides, who didn't love Tesla Coils in RA?

Lady Sepultura
02-11-2011, 12:41
He's nowhere near the same level in terms of awareness in the wider community. Besides, who didn't love Tesla Coils in RA?

I think a large part of GW's "target demographic" wasn't yet born when they released Red Alert.

sycopat
02-11-2011, 12:42
Did you really say we don't use the technology Tesla worked on today?

I assumed they meant the terminology 'tesla', which is still in use but not for much outside science/engineering, and of course games where it's the stock name for 'things which shoot lighning'.

NixonAsADaemonPrince
02-11-2011, 12:50
True enough. Still, the naming is counter-intuitive to the "behaviour" and "role" on the table.

This is true. Some changes in the names to the likes of "Avenger Cannon" and "Punisher Flamer" would alleviate these problems, though personally I'm fine with it, many other things are pretty abstract so it doesn't really bother me. Each to his/her own though :)

solkan
02-11-2011, 14:24
My will to complain about implausible Imperial naming was crushed by this: the "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are named after the discoverer of their templates, the famous Mr. Land.

You're just asking for GW to make up some senior Xenologist or Techpriest who, by pure random chance, has a name combining 'Tes' and 'la'. Would you prefer the "Tez La" cannon instead? ;)

Lady Sepultura
02-11-2011, 14:27
This is true. Some changes in the names to the likes of "Avenger Cannon" and "Punisher Flamer" would alleviate these problems, though personally I'm fine with it, many other things are pretty abstract so it doesn't really bother me. Each to his/her own though :)

They do not bother me either. You get used to them and they become pretty much second nature to anyone playing 40K on a regular basis. I am sure the same will happen to Tesla Weapons.

But if you come across these names "unprepared", as we all are now doing with "tesla", there is plenty of oddities in the current weapon-naming of 40K.

The OP said "usually" GW is spot on with its name. My rebuke was that GW is not. There're plenty of namings far more counter-intuitive than the heavy-set, tesla carbines that are fairly non-carbine-looking assault weapons. Unlike the new stuff, we've just grown used to it to the point of no longer even noticing these inconsistencies most of the time. And frankly, it just isn't a big issue either way.

Spiney Norman
02-11-2011, 16:39
The use of 'Tesla' I find a little jarring since this is a terminology derived from a scientists name, that we don't really use even now - so why would a 64 million year old race, that has technology named by a post-post-post-post apocalyptic/war torn/reunified/re-war torn interstellar empire with 40,000 years of lost information, use that name?

Although I get the same thing in some of the Horus Heresy novels - they keep referring to cultures and sayings/people from our time, as if that sort of information is commonplace 30,000 years from now. Seriously?

This has been debated, and redebated ever since we learned that there was a weapon called "tesla" in the Necron book.

Gauss was also a scientist, in fact both Gauss and Tesla (the scientists) gave their name to standard scientific units for measuring magnetic flux density, which is the only reason I can justify their using it to myself as it explains the word's longevity. In addition the names given in the codex are presumably NOT necron designations for their weapons (its unlikely even to be a translation of the words the necrons use for their weapons, if indeed they have any), but are much more likely to be intended as Imperial designations for the weapons used against them.

And yes, "tesla" does jarr on me as well, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it is a scientist's name, and everything to do with the fact that they blatantly ripped it from the Command and Conquer video game series.

loveless
02-11-2011, 16:51
And yes, "tesla" does jarr on me as well, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it is a scientist's name, and everything to do with the fact that they blatantly ripped it from the Command and Conquer video game series.

This always strikes me as odd (and I've been seeing it a lot).

I never played any of the C&C games, yet "tesla" weapons still conjure up imagery of arcing electricity and teleforce.

Tesla weapons are hardly unique to C&C, tending to turn up in several cases where electricity-based weapons come into play. Maybe C&C were the first "modern" example of weaponized Tesla technology, but they're hardly the only example.

Tay051173096
02-11-2011, 17:12
'Charging up... Zapp!'

Its a bit odd as the weapon to me looks like an auto grenade laucher without the strap and tripod (very heavy lots of firepower) made me think of the minigun in the first killzone from the holding style...

Its an emphisis on the necrons science so it can't be complained about to much.

xerxeshavelock
02-11-2011, 19:23
You know they don't speak english or latin in the 41st milennium, right. They are just used so we understand what they are saying or that they are speaking high gothic.

More on topic I found some of the Tau guns not fitting their role, or at least the fact the Smart MissileSystem is 2 Missile Pods, but have totally different rules, annoying. I reckon these figures and rules aren't designed together.

Threeshades
02-11-2011, 19:30
The funny thing is really that there is not only the Gauss precedent but Gauss weapons are actually much more inappropriately named. Gauss was known for achievements in geometry and electromagnetism. Not for some sort of molecular desintegration hocus pocus. At least tesla has some sort of connection with man-made electric lightning.

Stonerhino
02-11-2011, 20:17
Or maybe the fact that Tesla invented a theoredical "Death Ray" and just didn't have the tech at the time to test it.

Threeshades
02-11-2011, 20:18
I honestly don't know too much about tesla, only enough that there is at least some connection.

Other than between Gauss and the necron weapons named after him.

Askari
02-11-2011, 20:44
I think a large part of GW's "target demographic" wasn't yet born when they released Red Alert.

Yeah, it's not like they've released sequels since then that also involves Tesla Coil weaponry...

Wait.. what?! 2008?!

It sounds cool, and fits in thematically with Gauss weaponry.

Spiney Norman
02-11-2011, 21:30
Yeah, it's not like they've released sequels since then that also involves Tesla Coil weaponry...

Wait.. what?! 2008?!

It sounds cool, and fits in thematically with Gauss weaponry.

Yep, as well as guns that shoot green lightning we'll have some guns that shoot... lightning coloured lightning, hmmmm, what shall we call a gun that shoots lightning coloured lightning, wait what was that video game I used to play as a kid, I'm sure it had lightning guns in it???

MajorWesJanson
02-11-2011, 21:40
The use of 'Tesla' I find a little jarring since this is a terminology derived from a scientists name, that we don't really use even now - so why would a 64 million year old race, that has technology named by a post-post-post-post apocalyptic/war torn/reunified/re-war torn interstellar empire with 40,000 years of lost information, use that name?

Although I get the same thing in some of the Horus Heresy novels - they keep referring to cultures and sayings/people from our time, as if that sort of information is commonplace 30,000 years from now. Seriously?

Translation Convention, just like Eldar "Falcons" or Tau "Piranhas"

Goat of Yuggoth
02-11-2011, 22:06
There should be an evenly math/weird science named weapon in the Necrodex v3. How about:

Pascal Eruptor
Leibniz Syncrho-destructor
Moebius Rift-Bomb
Curie Radiate-o-matic
Bragg Shard-Enhancer
Bardeen-Cooper-Schrieffer Vaporizer


On topic then... Tesla is actually not only a name, it's a unit for magnetic fields and their power, so it's probably a close translate from high gothic. And on another note, GW have always used archetypes as definitions to their armies. Night Golbin Fanatics? Power Fist? Terminator? Dreadnought? It might not sound right in some places, but think about the Lizardmen character names and come back here to tell me there's something wrong in saying that a magnetic death ray (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleforce) is named after Tesla.

Cheers,
Goat of Yuggoth

Askari
02-11-2011, 22:14
Moebius Rift-Bomb


I would approve of this. Because it sounds awesome.

Gir
03-11-2011, 00:02
Pascal Eruptor
Leibniz Syncrho-destructor
Moebius Rift-Bomb
Curie Radiate-o-matic
Bragg Shard-Enhancer
Bardeen-Cooper-Schrieffer Vaporizer


I always like the "Farnsworth accelerator"

unheilig
03-11-2011, 01:30
I would totally prefer the Oppenheimer Missile to the Deathstrike Missile.


I'm a fan of Tesla, and the name conjures up wonderful images of what that weapon would do and look like while doing it.

Have we forgotten how dumb the names to MANY things in 40k are, like the Primarchs?

Let's lighten up, and prepare to KILL THINGS WITH LIGHTNING.

massey
03-11-2011, 02:53
No no no, you got it all wrong. Named after a human scientist?

The Necrons named the gun after the band. "Love will find a waaa-aaay!!!"

chromedog
03-11-2011, 03:18
My will to complain about implausible Imperial naming was crushed by this: the "Land Speeder" and "Land Raider" are named after the discoverer of their templates, the famous Mr. Land.



I'm waiting for them to rediscover the more mundane 'land' camera.

aka the 'polaroid'.

You didn't think they pulled the name out of their **** aethernets did you?

There WAS a guy called 'Land' that made stuff.

loveless
03-11-2011, 13:36
I'm more interested in Land's lesser-known colleagues, Hieronymus Sea and Ohlrich Air.

Malagate
03-11-2011, 14:00
Pascal Eruptor

This sounds perverse on many levels, the worst of which is binomial coefficients being weaponised to cause bodily explosive death.

My own personal fan-explanation of all these scientist names getting used for Necron guns is that Techno-Magos Driefel Gauss was the first to study Necron weaponry, his work being continued by his understudy Adept Yullo Tesla.

Unfortunately (for some) they were both missing when the time came to study the weapons on the newly discovered Necron flier, which Professor Raymond Death volunteered to research...

RobPro
03-11-2011, 17:39
M
Or maybe the fact that Tesla invented a theoredical "Death Ray" and just didn't have the tech at the time to test it.


I'd call tunguska a pretty successful test.

Erazmus_M_Wattle
03-11-2011, 18:14
Command and Conquer didn't invent Tesla Coils. They are real. Okay they're not weaponised. But they are real. Look 'em up on YouTube.