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T10
02-11-2011, 17:16
"Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts."

Ok, so what _does_ restore wounds to Tomb King characters? Clearly the Standard of the Undying Legion does not.

However, the Blade of Antarhak and the Healing Potions are both magic items with the purpose to restore wounds to the character. On one hand it makes sort of sense that the Healing Potion would not _work_ for a Tomb King character since it the Tomb Kings rule says that it (as an item that restores lost wounds) cannot and the potion does not include a statement that allows this "even for a Tomb Kings character". This would mean that the potion is a non-option for the Tomb Kings. Fine, I can live with that.

But it makes no sense for the Blade of Antarhak which can _only_ be taken by Tomb King characters.

Then there's the Restless Dead Lore Attribute. Does it even count as a spell?

What is GW getting at here? Does the restriction described in the rules for Raising Fallen Warriors apply only to effects that restore wounds on the _unit_, but effects that apply to specific models are exempt?

a18no
02-11-2011, 17:36
"Unless specifically stated otherwise, spells and magic items that restore lost wounds cannot heal characters or their mounts."

Ok, so what _does_ restore wounds to Tomb King characters? Clearly the Standard of the Undying Legion does not.

However, the Blade of Antarhak and the Healing Potions are both magic items with the purpose to restore wounds to the character. On one hand it makes sort of sense that the Healing Potion would not _work_ for a Tomb King character since it the Tomb Kings rule says that it (as an item that restores lost wounds) cannot and the potion does not include a statement that allows this "even for a Tomb Kings character". This would mean that the potion is a non-option for the Tomb Kings. Fine, I can live with that.

But it makes no sense for the Blade of Antarhak which can _only_ be taken by Tomb King characters.

Then there's the Restless Dead Lore Attribute. Does it even count as a spell?

What is GW getting at here? Does the restriction described in the rules for Raising Fallen Warriors apply only to effects that restore wounds on the _unit_, but effects that apply to specific models are exempt?

For me, an item that can only heal character by it's effect or restriction, like heal the wearer on a magic item... enter in the "unless stated otherwise".

jtrowell
03-11-2011, 09:19
Agree, the healing potion should work for our characters, like they do for anyone else.

Enigmatik1
03-11-2011, 15:42
Then there's the Restless Dead Lore Attribute. Does it even count as a spell?

What is GW getting at here? Does the restriction described in the rules for Raising Fallen Warriors apply only to effects that restore wounds on the _unit_, but effects that apply to specific models are exempt?

Lore Attributes do not count as spells as I recall. However, the fact that it refers us to the Raising Fallen Warriors subtext prevents it from healing our characters even though it otherwise would I believe.

Basically, I don't think GW intended for us to be able to restore Wounds to our characters via our magic phase at all (which I find sad, but not a huge deal personally). I think the only way to be able to heal our characters with magic would be with a Dunce Cap King who got LoLife and made use of the Lore Attribute.

T10
03-11-2011, 21:34
Two points:

1.
The RFW rules don't really cover restoring wounds to characters at all: The process described deals with command groups and rank-and-file models and pretty much stops there.

Characters are only discussed at the end of these rules, but with unfortunate ambiguity.

- Characters are (generally) not affected by "spells" or "magic items"
- Characters are affected by "spells" or "magic items" if these specifically state they do so.
- The Restless Dead lore attribute isn't a spell, so the above restrictions don't count.
- Characters are explictly denied the effect on the condition that they have joined a unit.

Ok, so this is a bit of nit-pickery, but it lays down the cause of (my) confusion on the subject: If the RFW rules in no way affect characters, why all the exceptions detailing how charactres ARE NOT affected?

As I see it, there is a valid question here:

"Will a lone Tomb King in his chariot regain wounds if a Lore of Nehekara augment spell is cast upon him?"
- Yes, because he has not joined a unit, and the lore attribute is not a spell.
- No, because the lore attribute applies the RFW process of restoring wounds, and characters are not included in that process.

2.
It seems to me that the RFW rules could have been better handled by simply stating "Wounds restored in this way do not restore Wounds to characters or their mounts." It makes a lot more sense to have the restrictions refer to the PROCESS rather than try to cover all instances where the process is USED.

Maoriboy007
03-11-2011, 22:00
Basically, I don't think GW intended for us to be able to restore Wounds to our characters via our magic phase at all (which I find sad, but not a huge deal personally).
You're very forgiving, I find it pretty moronic on the part of the design team myself.

Jericho
03-11-2011, 22:19
I think I'm with T10 on this issue. The designers went pretty far out of their way to remove any loopholes about healing TK characters via magic or items, and the RFW mechanism doesn't give you any way to assign healed wounds to them via the Lore Attribute so that's seemingly gone straight away. It could have been more clear by explicitly stating "SOD OFF, NO HEALS FOR YOU" but still, there's no mechanism to heal them this way.

The only mechanism that makes sense for healing a TK character would be the Blade, and possibly also the potion.

Lifebloom in a Storm of Magic game (or if you took the magic hat and rolled up Life) could theoretically bypass the rules, because it doesn't heal using the RFW wound allocation scheme and it's not a spell either. But I can't think of any other way to heal off the top of my head.

One of the real annoying technicalities in this whole argument is the concept of a unit of characters with no other models mixed in. In that unit, people extend the "multiple wound rank and file model" definition to encompass the characters, and there isn't any real definition of this term anywhere to dispute that. Silly, but there it is.

jtrowell
04-11-2011, 10:34
No, a unit with only characters will just be an unit with zero rank-and-file.

Enigmatik1
04-11-2011, 12:44
You're very forgiving, I find it pretty moronic on the part of the design team myself.

Y'all caught me on a good day. I do have them every so often ;) Now git off mah lawn!

@T10-

I see your point. This definitely sounds like something for the FAQ team to clarify because at this point, it turns into a RAI v RAW debate. The intent seems (to me, at least) that GW didn't want us healing our characters during our magic phase outside of the Dunce Cap (I don't know anything about SoM). But using your breakdown of the rules, it appears that lone characters would be the exception.