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Sh4d0w
03-11-2011, 06:49
So, me and my mate recently entered a doubles tourney at our local store. Overall we did pretty well getting 2 wins and a loss. However the 2nd team we played were the biggest jerks I've ever met. They had Bretonnia and Lizardmen.

Basically the game was lost when my mate didn't realise that his chaos warriors WERE stubborn due to equal ranks against the opponent's knights which would have won us the game. However the jerk on the other side of the table had already moved his pursuit roll by the team my mate realised and he didn't let him take it back. They did several other things like this during the game. In a proper tourney normally i wouldn't have a problem with this but it was a small 8 person tourney, were we all knew each other and it was mainly to have fun. I have since lost all respect for both of them.

For these reasons I would like your guys help to utterly crush these guys next time around, they deserve nothing less and the lizard guy was running a slann with +1 pd per spell.

The lists we used were:

Dwarfs
Runesmith- Rospellbreaking, MRoBalance, shield
40x warriors-banner
33x hammerers-banner
grudge thrower- str5, re-rolls to hit
organ gun

Chaos
lvl 1-no upgrades
Bsb-3+ward
18x warriors, shields, tzeentch
18x warriors, shields, tzeentch
5x chaos knights
warshrine

I am now enlisting the help of all dwarf/chaos players to help better these lists. We are allowed 1250pts each, normal army rules apply.

CowboyBadger
03-11-2011, 09:39
Given the lack of shooting in WOC do you not want to use that phase with the dwarfs?

Herminard
03-11-2011, 10:03
You must outrank your opponent to be Steadfast. Having equal ranks is not enough. And there are lots of improvements to be made in your lists. Are you model dependant?

Sh4d0w
05-11-2011, 00:01
Sorry Herminard you were right he did have more ranks anyway it turned out. I'm not really model dependent i have multiples of every war machine/except flame cannons, all my gw warriors are in hordes. I'm a competent player i'm just looking for some help with the chaos list and maybe some synergy for both of ours.

White_13oy
05-11-2011, 02:16
Do you want to best him with a fair, but strong list to just show you are a better general than him? Or do you want to cheese it up and go for the facerolling?

Sh4d0w
05-11-2011, 12:35
Do you want to best him with a fair, but strong list to just show you are a better general than him? Or do you want to cheese it up and go for the facerolling?

Who are you talking about here? My parter (best friend) or the other team?

If it's my friend then not at all we are best friends, i just have a slightly better tactical understanding than he does and i use forums like these so i genuinely know more about it than he does. I want the Dirtiest double's army you can make even if you have to completely rewrite both lists. For instance should we go all combat and i take a strollas army? or i focus all shooting and he's my shield wall, or a mix of both? which we tried last time?

calnen
05-11-2011, 15:41
How about going with scouts?
For the Dwarves, take a big (50?) scouting horde for that classic in-your-face gameplay. Deploy in one flank, at an angle to the enemy. Have a character (runesmith) with them, with rune of brotherhood and master rune of challenge, and force a mid-strength enemy unit to charge you on the first turn. If you deploy at an angle, you can make them wheel (close the door) so their unit sticks out a fair way. Then in your turn, the chaos player flanks them with a block of knights. You then have two units in their flank, and proceed from there.
You can take a cannon too (with rune of forging) to try and shoot up something nasty, dogs to stall the enemy from bringing too much to bear on the scouts too quickly, and the chaos player can make up their core with a couple of marauder hordes to come and weigh in a turn or so later.

How does that sound?

mo-man
05-11-2011, 22:17
I dunno about 1250 but I use to run a very similiar 1k list altough in the old rules so you might have to change it a little now What I use to run was a dwarf thane with a 1+ re-rollable armour save, with a great weapon a thane with a bsb and rune of battle, in a unit of 25 hammers with full command and rune of slowness, 2 unit's of thunders and 2 bolt thrower's no one ever beat that list. Altough in saying that, that was in the old rules so you might need to tweek it a bit. I wound't go with grudgethrowers though why not go with orghan guns instead they are much better at taking out infantry.

Sh4d0w
05-11-2011, 22:33
I dunno about 1250 but I use to run a very similiar 1k list altough in the old rules so you might have to change it a little now What I use to run was a dwarf thane with a 1+ re-rollable armour save, with a great weapon a thane with a bsb and rune of battle, in a unit of 25 hammers with full command and rune of slowness, 2 unit's of thunders and 2 bolt thrower's no one ever beat that list. Altough in saying that, that was in the old rules so you might need to tweek it a bit. I wound't go with grudgethrowers though why not go with orghan guns instead they are much better at taking out infantry.


HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAH.....sorry i had to laugh when u said organ guns are better than grudgethrowers at taking out infantry.... Str5 Template with re-roll scatter dice trumps organ gun every time, sorry but the rest of your list might have worked in 7th but not 8th, no magic defense? we kinda relied on that in the tourney. As i said i think my list is fairly solid, i think i will make the warriors scouts..good idea mate, mainly help for my friend, he's kinda limited tho, no marauder hords :(

mo-man
05-11-2011, 22:35
lol even with no spescific magic defence dwarfs still get +2 to dispel but seriously auto hitting with 2-10 shots at str 5 -3 to armour save yeah your right orghan guns are ****

Sh4d0w
06-11-2011, 00:18
lol even with no spescific magic defence dwarfs still get +2 to dispel but seriously auto hitting with 2-10 shots at str 5 -3 to armour save yeah your right orghan guns are ****

You are already incorrect..as soon as dwarfs are allied they lose the +2 dispel, consider facing a life slann in one game, lvl 4 butcher in the next...both which there team-mates give them all the dice, yeah..magic defense is needed.

And your wrong again we are talking about infantry here, with it's ability to hit 21 models with str 5 and gets a re-roll, that's more than double the max hit of the organ gun, sure organ gun is better for knights and what not but your wrong if you think its better for infantry, also organ gun has 24" range while grudge thrower has 60"....very big difference.

Please stay on topic here guys i'm looking for tips about chaos/dwarf synergy not arguing about what war machine is best.

mo-man
06-11-2011, 10:09
You asked for tips about what to take and then you insult me for giving you my advice. In most games the opponent is going to be within 24inches in the first turn if not then by the second. The grudge thrower is good but the problem with it is it can scatter off and hit nothing. You don't need to worry about much anti-magic if your team mate has gone for anti-magic. In my opinion the best double's team mate would take an army that fix's your armies inherent weaknesses for example anti-magic

Sh4d0w
07-11-2011, 02:53
I respect your opinions and tips mo-man. Anyways should my chaos friend go cavalry heavy to combat my movement weakness or would he just be up the front all alone with no backup?

White_13oy
07-11-2011, 06:00
I was asking if which approach to the list you or your friend wanted. Example for cheese would be the chosenstar, or balance with an nice mix of unit and not going full on cheese. I just wanted to get into your mindset and stay with what you or him wanted.

eron12
08-11-2011, 05:51
lol even with no spescific magic defence dwarfs still get +2 to dispel but seriously auto hitting with 2-10 shots at str 5 -3 to armour save yeah your right orghan guns are ****

Organ guns are far from ****, but their roll is not shooting blocks of infantry. That is the grudge throwers roll. Organ guns are great at shooting skirmishers, heavy cav, and small groups of elite infantry, but as pointed out, 21 hits at S5 is more damaging than 2-10 hits at S5. A large block of infantry can shake off a low shot from an organ gun, but be seriously weakened by even a glancing grudge thrower shot.

Sh4d0w
09-11-2011, 03:59
Organ guns are far from ****, but their roll is not shooting blocks of infantry. That is the grudge throwers roll. Organ guns are great at shooting skirmishers, heavy cav, and small groups of elite infantry, but as pointed out, 21 hits at S5 is more damaging than 2-10 hits at S5. A large block of infantry can shake off a low shot from an organ gun, but be seriously weakened by even a glancing grudge thrower shot.

I'm pretty sure he was being mockingly sarcastic here, but yeah i totally agree with you here

ooglatjama
09-11-2011, 05:58
Tell him to take a deathstar of chosens of Tz with a warshrine while you take a gunline. Enjoy the most dull faceroll ever.