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mob16151
04-11-2011, 06:12
Warseers indulge with me in some wild speculation.

From Lexicanum: The Purifiers

At their station in the Chamber of Purity, they stand guard and prevent any outsiders from entering the area with only a few given the privelege of passage into this part of the citadel. It is said that only the Purifiers know the exact nature of their prisoner but never speak of it, not even to the Supreme Grand Master. Whenever the rocks of Titan shake, the Purifiers move in to seal any breaches to the chamber with the Chapter waiting in anticipation until the tremors cease. 1-p9 It is known that they struck against their own Battle-Brothers who dared enter into the Chamber of Purity as they trusted no one with their sacred mission of protecting the mysterious contents of the prison

The terminus decree: Such is the power of Terminus Decree that it is to be opened only in humanity's darkest hour, when all hope for our race is lost. What happens once the box is opened and descree is spoken by the Supreme Grand Master is infinitely dangerous and will either save mankind from certain defeat or doom us to oblivion for all eternity. In this capacity it is the ultimate sanction of the Grey Knights, to be used only as a lst resort, when all other options have failed.

it is said that the golden seal which rests upon the box containing the decree is but one of a matched pair, its partner found only in one place: On the Emperor's Golden Throne

When reading those passages, I had 1 thought.

What if Horus isn't dead? What if the terminus decree is the orders to release him? Tell me how crazy I am.

Nazguire
04-11-2011, 06:18
Horus is all sorts of dead. He's so dead that he's deader than dead.

The Emperor shot him with a psychic laser with the power of a sun going supernova. This obliterated his soul. There is no going back from that.

mob16151
04-11-2011, 06:20
Horus is all sorts of dead. He's so dead that he's deader than dead.

The Emperor shot him with a psychic laser with the power of a sun going supernova. This obliterated his soul. There is no going back from that.

Did he? How do we know??????:chrome:

Lord-Caerolion
04-11-2011, 06:29
Why would they bring him back then? "Hey, we're about to die, let's use the Terminus Decree, so that Horus can turn up, and kill us quicker!"

Secondly, we also know that the Imperials don't have Horus' body, because the Black Legion took it with them, only to have it captured by Fabius Bile, who tried to clone it, before Abaddon claimed leadership, led a counter-raid, and destroyed the body. In other words, it's not on Titan, and he's certainly not alive.

Lothlanathorian
04-11-2011, 06:41
I've yet to hear anything redeeming about that codex. Also, I agree with everyone else, Horus isn't just dead, he is D E D dead. Obliterated, even.





Although...

shadowhawk2008
04-11-2011, 06:41
Did he? How do we know??????:chrome:

If we question every bit of the most canon background like this, does the setting still seem fun? :eyebrows:

mob16151
04-11-2011, 07:03
If we question every bit of the most canon background like this, does the setting still seem fun? :eyebrows:



Absolutely, what if Dorn lied about what he found on the bridge? What if horus used another body double? It's a conspiracy theory. There always fun.

@Lord-Caerolion What if the Emperor showed him the truth, and a remorseful Horus is imprisoned in the center of titan?

Its just fun speculating, gosh you guys in general are pretty hide bound.

Lord-Caerolion
04-11-2011, 07:04
As again, Abaddon destroyed the body after he took it back to the Eye of Terror. Dorn took the Emperors body back, he didn't bring Horus' body back.

mob16151
04-11-2011, 07:08
As again, Abaddon destroyed the body after he took it back to the Eye of Terror. Dorn took the Emperors body back, he didn't bring Horus' body back.

Again, I can explain all that away with SORCERY!!!!!

P.S. I'm not hugely serious about the Horus idea, it's once again just, fun, wild, speculation.

So nobody get offended.

Son of Sanguinius
04-11-2011, 07:36
I know this isn't the most imaginative perspective, but I am of the opinion that the Terminus Decree contains order to end the Emperor's life. Possibly in conjunction with some type of massive forced suicide of psykers so that the Emperor can perform what Slaanesh did and temporarily become a dominant warp power. Come to think of it, the Grey Knights would serve a great purpose in this endeavor.

Thornea
04-11-2011, 07:45
The Terminus decree...

1 of 2 possible things imo....

1... Life support off switch for the Golden Throne
i.e. turning it off causes the Emp to ascend BUT opens the gate to the broken human webway allowing Daemons free access to Terra.

2... Prison for the Missing 2 Legions and/or Primarchs who may or may not help the Imperium.

Just my view on it..

mob16151
04-11-2011, 07:46
The Terminus decree...

1 of 2 possible things imo....

1... Life support off switch for the Golden Throne
i.e. turning it off causes the Emp to ascend BUT opens the gate to the broken human webway allowing Daemons free access to Terra.

2... Prison for the Missing 2 Legions and/or Primarchs who may or may not help the Imperium.
Just my view on it..

I like this theory.

Son of Sanguinius
04-11-2011, 07:48
Interesting thought, Thornea. Not sure how it would relate to the name "Terminus", but certainly an interesting possibility.

sweave
04-11-2011, 08:12
it could be the emperor's soul cast off into the warp which is reaching psychic fruition

it could be a new primarch like construct formed from the grey knights themselves

it could be malal

it could be vaul

it could be ....

The Warmaster
04-11-2011, 09:28
I am liking the Missing Legions theory, although pulling the plug on the Big E seems more likely. If GW ever goes completely under, they should finish it off by doing that and validating one-and-a-half decades of fans claiming that the Star Child is still valid fluff (including me - it's antiquated, but it certainly hasn't been invalidated by any means, although the 3rd edition rulebook played around with the Inquisition coming into contact with it).


it could be the emperor's soul cast off into the warp which is reaching psychic fruition

it could be a new primarch like construct formed from the grey knights themselves

it could be malal

it could be vaul

it could be ....

Malal has actually resurfaced in the background as Malice recently, IIRC, and is the patron of the Sons of Malice.

madden
04-11-2011, 10:51
How about being the EMP's soul and it's body is on the throne but the soul is going mad as it's still connected to the husk feeling everything but can't fix it so the casket is literally a termination order for the husk.

Oh and terminus just means end.

Thornea
04-11-2011, 11:34
My spin on it all is this...

No one really knows what happened to the 2 legions...

There is some evidence to say that the ultramarines absorbed some of the marines from the 2 missing legions hence why the UM's are so huge.

After reading most of the HH novels and snippets in other background its pointing to the fact that the Emp made somekind of pact with the Chaos Gods allowing the Primarchs to be whisked away and was fully aware of the fact that a civil war was inevitable, almost like he had the foresight and knowledge that is was going to happen and I think he planned for it AND allowed it to happen.

He forbade religion? maybe the whole plan WAS for the EMP to ascend to god hood for the human race, maybe it was part of the bargain he struck with the chaos gods (who probably feared this happening) and as part of the bargain of imortality/creation for the Primarchs/completion of the Space Marines he had to erase all religion but ultimately knew that through his actions, religion WOULD resurface and he would still ascend.

In fact being sat on the golden throne for all eternitiy is probably the worse thing that could happen to the EMP stalling his god hood... Maybe he even foresaw this (hence the Lifesupport switch idea with the Terminus Decree).

I think he knew all this was going to happen and set up the failsafes of 2 hidden legions (to save terra from the webway collapse) and the Terminus Decree for god hood.

The missing 2 legions are possibly hidden in the webway or maybe the Terminus Decree box (Kinda like the doctor who episode of the Darlek prison ship that had tons of Darleks hidden in Nul Space)


Just some rantings and ideas I have..

Jonny_N
04-11-2011, 12:14
If we question every bit of the most canon background like this, does the setting still seem fun? :eyebrows:

Yes, in my opinion, as the setting provides ample ground for postulation.

Lord-Caerolion
04-11-2011, 12:48
Yes, in my opinion, as the setting provides ample ground for postulation.

There's ample ground for postulation, yes, but there are certain things that are set in stone. Horus is dead, the Emperor is on the Golden Throne, there were only 20 Legions, etc. Without the constants, it isn't 40k.

Harwammer
04-11-2011, 12:53
It's more like set in Jelly. Want to fight a campaign setting where the Black Legion battle against Horus and the Emperor's Children in a post heresy time? Go for it!

Korraz
04-11-2011, 13:06
Horus is dead. Fullstop. There are stories written from several perspectives that actually show the battle and how he dies. If the darn Emperor isn't a reliable witness of that scene, I don't know who.

The Terminus Decree is an empty sheet of paper, which depicts the reasonable fluff written by Ward.

Just ignore any fluff written in that codex. Hell, just ignore the whole book.

War Angel
04-11-2011, 13:33
I'm going with the turn off The Golden Throne theory. This has been said in
other sources that it's either the best or worst thing that could happen.
If it's good then The Emperor becomes a warp power similar to the Chaos Gods.
In doing so he could "harmonize" the Warp making it balanced or calm.

To me this has been one of the 40k end stories if the game was going under
if one was ever needed.

I don't know how much is still valid but I remember it's supposed to happen
when the Emperor has a moment of doubt in his ability to help Humanity and
his direct descendants are to be sacrificed to him at the same time. As I remember
Tzeentch had Imperials believe they were a Chaos cult and were killed.
Making part of this not possible.

So my guess with this is that it could still be done half way. The Emperor
becomes a Warp power/God for Humanity. The Warp remains mostly the same
but with a bright spot in the darkness.

Perhaps the "prisoner" isn't so much a prisoner but one last remaining child of
the Emperor and the plan is to sacrifice them and turn off the Golden Throne
when all seems lost. Which given how the EOT campaign ended
could be sooner rather than later.


The missing 2 legions are possibly hidden in the webway or maybe the Terminus Decree box (Kinda like the doctor who episode of the Darlek prison ship that had tons of Darleks hidden in Nul Space)
When I read the OP it reminded me of The Pandorica. The prison box which
the major aliens stored The Doctor in. As the episode later showed
this was a desperation play as well.

Mister Magister
04-11-2011, 17:28
What if it's actually a "turn on the Golden Throne" situation and it's simply been on stand by for ten millennia, keeping old Empy at a base level? Switch it on and the thing goes to work, regenerating all the damaged cells until He is whole and mighty again?

I can see that being a "good news / bad news" outcome as the Emperor will be back, kicking behind and taking names, but alas he'll be doing all that to most of the Imperium first in order to try and stamp out the Imperial Cult that's sprung up while he's been sitting not-so-pretty.

Grimbad
04-11-2011, 17:48
What if it's actually a "turn on the Golden Throne" situation and it's simply been on stand by for ten millennia, keeping old Empy at a base level? Switch it on and the thing goes to work, regenerating all the damaged cells until He is whole and mighty again?

I can see that being a "good news / bad news" outcome as the Emperor will be back, kicking behind and taking names, but alas he'll be doing all that to most of the Imperium first in order to try and stamp out the Imperial Cult that's sprung up while he's been sitting not-so-pretty.

Not to mention the possibility hinted at in the intro to Inquisitor, that most of the Imperium is so set in believing in their corpse god that they wouldn't be able to believe in his return, and it would start an even more terrible civil war than the Heresy.

Connor MacLeod
04-11-2011, 17:51
What if the whole skulls motif resulted from the Emperor employing a really bad interior designer?

Harwammer
04-11-2011, 20:17
now i have the impression of a really camp interior designer marked by khorne, 'more skulls would beFabulous!' truely the imperium was doomed to be struck down by chaos from the start.

mob16151
04-11-2011, 20:22
now i have the impression of a really camp interior designer marked by khorne, 'more skulls would beFabulous!' truely the imperium was doomed to be struck down by chaos from the start.

Isn't there a room in the Imperial palace filled with the skulls of dead imperial heroes? Thats not chaotic at all :p

Eumerin
04-11-2011, 21:38
Not to mention the possibility hinted at in the intro to Inquisitor, that most of the Imperium is so set in believing in their corpse god that they wouldn't be able to believe in his return, and it would start an even more terrible civil war than the Heresy.

Not that it would matter at that point, given that the threat to the Imperium to cause the box to be opened would probably be dire enough to have caused most of the Imperium to no longer answer to Terra (either because they're in open revolt, or much, much, much worse things have happened to them).

Mechdra
04-11-2011, 23:52
The content must be something thatis very powerful and significant. If you ask me, I think it could be The Messiah himself lol.

Look at this way, the Emperor main goal is to unifty humanity and whn the heresy happens, the imperium is shattered. This is also a time where the Messiah could appear and save everyone but this threaten the Emperor position and might start another war. Since you can't kill him because he is really pure and holy and you can;t let it loose. Best is to lock him up and use it as a trump card. In the end, the Emperor is just a man, not a God.

Hawkkf
05-11-2011, 05:42
I dont think the thing the purifiers guard and the decree are linked in any way other than they are secrets so terrible that they must be guarded by the purest available.

I am a fan of the idea that the terminus decree allows the grey knights access to the throne room to divert power to access the webway and the remnants of the lost legions. Of course this act would probably pull the plug on the Emperor. I am not sure he wholy knows what would happen. If he dies he may be reincarnated which would cause civil war, he may ascend and form a new terra centered eye of terror.. followed by civil war, the astronomican may go out without him semi-alive to soulbind psykers to run it, or maybe something else worse we cant think about. Not to mention that the missing legions were deleted form all record for a reason and after they defeat the dire enemy.. well they could just turn on the Imperium for revenge. Pretty much sounds like a last ditch effort to me.

As for the purifiers I like to think that Malal/Malice is imprisoned there. We know the Emperor sought to destroy chaos and seemingly made a deal with chaos powers. Is it so hard to believe that he could have made a pact with Malice to create the primarchs with the promise of unleashing them upon the big 4? Once they are whisked away by chaos, the Emperor gets irked and seals Malice on Titan (Mars already being occupied by the Void Dragon/Machine God). While the emperor was alive and kicking the wards wouldnt need much attention as he personally could see to them from across the galaxy. But since he currently is just a psychic presence tethered to a body, from time to time the seals weaken and only the purest grey knights cant reinforce the bonds lest they get corrupted by the direct touch of a chaos god.

Also a fun thought runs through my mind.. should the Tyranids finally make it to Terra it would be a heck of a show... Hive Mind vs Malal/Malice vs Void Dragon vs Emperor/Star Child. Talk about a royal rumble to finish off the story line.

War Angel
05-11-2011, 22:55
Isn't there a room in the Imperial palace filled with the skulls of dead imperial heroes? Thats not chaotic at all :p
There's a pic in the 3rd Edition rulebook (pg. 265) that has huge piles of skulls
and some guys performing a ritual.



As for the purifiers I like to think that Malal/Malice is imprisoned there. We know the Emperor sought to destroy chaos and seemingly made a deal with chaos powers. Is it so hard to believe that he could have made a pact with Malice to create the primarchs with the promise of unleashing them upon the big 4?
Interesting theory. It would explain the last resort and must be guarded by
Grey Knights who occasionally have to prevent "something" from getting out.
If cracks appear in the security system that the GKs themselves must deal with
then it sounds a bit chaosy to me.

I still prefer the turn off the Golden Throne answer.

War Angel
10-11-2011, 14:53
An idea that occured to me concerning the prisoner in the Chamber of Purity
is that it's one of the Sensei. A child of the God-Emperor himself.

This explains
* The purity part of the chamber's name
* The need to keep the identity of the prisoner secret
* Why the Terminus Decree is only to be opened as a last resort
* The fact that the golden seal on the decree matches the one on the Golden Throne.

The plan in regards to the Sensei are to sacrifice them to The Emperor at a time when
the Golden Throne is about to fail, which it is said to be in the beginning stages now.

Grocklock
10-11-2011, 18:47
When you say that Horus is dead you have no proof of this and people say that it is set in stone, how is this. Because the imperium said so, the most corupted race in the whole of 40k, come on.

On the other hand if you want to see how people can be convinced of something happening that others disagree with you only need to look at tthe bible. In the bible when the Jews killed Jesus. They said he wasnt the son of god and are still waiting for his arrival.

Now the bible is full of stories form crisitians saying that he is. But the Jews denie this.

My point is that as all most all of the text is written by the imperiaum then it is going to be written in a favorable light. THe imperium are capable of lying or covering up the truth. After all they are human.

SomeRandomEvilGuy
10-11-2011, 19:32
My point is that as all most all of the text is written by the imperiaum then it is going to be written in a favorable light. THe imperium are capable of lying or covering up the truth. After all they are human.
This isn't, though. It's written from an omniscient narrator point of view - the Emperor destroyed Horus. That isn't just what the Imperium tells us, it is what Games Workshop have stated as fact.

FlashGordon
10-11-2011, 19:41
There is some evidence to say that the ultramarines absorbed some of the marines from the 2 missing legions hence why the UM's are so huge.


No there isnt any evidence, only tounge in cheek joking(said by the man himself) from two word bearers who hated Guilliman.

Vampiric16
10-11-2011, 20:00
Horus? Alive?

Nope, Chuck Testa.

shadowhawk2008
10-11-2011, 20:22
When you say that Horus is dead you have no proof of this and people say that it is set in stone, how is this. Because the imperium said so, the most corupted race in the whole of 40k, come on.

On the other hand if you want to see how people can be convinced of something happening that others disagree with you only need to look at tthe bible. In the bible when the Jews killed Jesus. They said he wasnt the son of god and are still waiting for his arrival.

Now the bible is full of stories form crisitians saying that he is. But the Jews denie this.

My point is that as all most all of the text is written by the imperiaum then it is going to be written in a favorable light. THe imperium are capable of lying or covering up the truth. After all they are human.

Really? We are going to argue about the veracity of the fact that Horus is supposed to be dead? Really? :eyebrows:

/sigh

pointyteeth
10-11-2011, 20:48
If Horus was alive I'd expect him to be kept in Kangba Marwu on Terra. From the description in the Outcast Dead, it seems to be the place where the worst of the worst go. (albeit I haven't finished reading the book yet so perhaps there's a reason given later)

Harwammer
10-11-2011, 21:03
Horus may be dead.

That is still no reason you can't fight a campaign where the Black Legion battle against Emperor's Children, lead by Horus, in a post heresy setting. The fluff is very malleable like that.

Set in jelly, right?

SomeRandomEvilGuy
10-11-2011, 21:20
The fluff is very malleable like that.

Set in jelly, right?
Only if you're going to allow any twisting of the background. That's alternate universe style altering. Some things are set in stone, like which Legions turned traitor and which stayed loyal, and that the Eldar were the primary contributors to Slaanesh.

Nerak
11-11-2011, 11:23
Possible theories on the purifierprison:

*It contains found and captured senseis.

*It contains primarchs. This includes primarchs yet to be revealed, primarchs thought MIA and chaos primarchs who's had either a change of heart or are just simply chaotic and imprisoned.

*It contains a chaotic power of some sort that has to help the imperium.

*It contains some really big and scary deamon.

*It contains a C'tan.

*It contains Chuck Norris

Possible theories on the the terminus decree:'

*Pulls the plug on the emperor.

*Revives the Emperor.

*Opens the webwaygate at the golden throne.

*Brings forth the missing legions who where really just locked in stasis (or whatever...)

*Realeses the void dragon.

Harwammer
11-11-2011, 19:55
Only if you're going to allow any twisting of the background. That's alternate universe style altering.

Not an alternate universe style altering at all. A post heresy showdown of BL vs ECs and 'Horus' is based on in universe events. I like to think these events represent the Sons of Horus casting away the shackles of their primarch's legacy and embracing their modern existance as 'The Black Legion'. It's been that way since at least 2nd ed and it would make an excellent back drop for a campaign.

Point being even things that initially sound entirely outlandish can be supported by canon.

lordkryos
11-11-2011, 20:27
its probably an auto destruct for something, maybe destroys earth/Terra... could be a goo last resort if Terra is under occupation by something, though most likely turns of the golden throne

Wyrmwood
11-11-2011, 20:58
It's a beacon that summons the Primarchs.

A lot of the suggestions in this thread make no sense to me, aside from the possibility of terminating the Golden Throne's life support systems. 'Terminus' doesn't have to mean the end of humanity, or the destruction of the Imperium - though it is certainly an order preparing for that eventuality. Summoning the Primarchs to marshal humanity and/or begin a second Great Crusade, or rather a Great Reclamation, would terminate the Imperium as it stands while paving the way for a new human empire.

It could also terminate the life support systems of the Golden Throne. But that would be the second part of the Order to be activated once the Primarchs, able to, have returned.

Hawkkf
11-11-2011, 22:18
Why would the Emperor have a box that summons his Primarchs back from the lost depths of the galaxy when they were not lost when he created the box and was interred on the throne? Unless of course he could see the future.. in which case we have to question why he chose the path that lead to the current 40k Imperium.

This does lead to an interesting question. Is there any indication of when the Emperor actually made the decree and sealed it? I would assume it was entrusted originally to Malcador who then entrusted it to the founders of the Grey Knights. If we have an idea of the time frame it would help narrow down the ideas.

Col. Tartleton
11-11-2011, 22:44
Pandarens? I think they're suspiciously involved in this. Them and those Jokearo.
Black and White.... Gray.... Grey Knights... Purifiers... Clean... Alcohol... Brewmaster... The Shrouding... Mists of Pandaria...

My God... It almost makes sense.

NinjaPenguin2k7
16-11-2011, 11:30
I think it's quite obvious that they have one of the Giant Space Clams from Rogue Trader imprisoned there. Those things are dangerous, somebody could lose an arm.