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View Full Version : Is the Varghulf just a glorified Direwolf ??



Aeron
04-11-2011, 13:40
Howdy, So as the title says - is the Varghulf just a glorified Direwolf now with massive blocks of troops in 8th edition??

I'm just about to pick up my Vargulf because I think the model is pretty awesome but i'm not sure how I would go about using him?

Wouldnt a unit of 10-15 Dire wolves be just as good (or bad as the case may be) but at a much reduced price?

I know there is a new book around the corner and the rules might change but i doubt it personally - GW will have far newer and shinnier models to push towards you with new uber rules :cheese:

Do you think the rules for the Varghulf will be changed/how would you change them??

If he didnt suffer from crumble or could at least regenerate wounds from crumble i'm sure it would help substatially. Apart from that I'm not sure as i'm quite new to warhammer and not played 8th yet! I'd like to here from more astute members on here :)

Many thanks.

Nate.

Mike3791
04-11-2011, 13:50
There is no way to predict what changes it will undergo in the next book, but you can follow the VC rumors thread(or post in there) and may find some clues. Also if you are looking to build an army for now you can check out the VC tactica thread, however in 2 months that will change too lol.

Lathrael
04-11-2011, 14:02
So far, i'm not much satisfied about it's performance. Combined with possibility of losing it in one turn (in a multiple combat), and obviously inability of flank and break a unit itself, and being not much survivable, i won't touch it when i have better choices, like black coach. And too expensive for a warmachine hunter, which is its only valid use, in my opinion.

Edit: Dire wolves aren't much brighter too, and they don't count towards core.

warplock
04-11-2011, 14:02
Wouldnt a unit of 10-15 Dire wolves be just as good (or bad as the case may be) but at a much reduced price?


Not really, the Dire Wolves have a wider frontage, lower strength and toughness, and no regeneration. Meaning that even regular troops will smash it apart with ease. With the Varghulf, you get a lot less attacks coming at you due to the smaller frontage, and anything which does hit has to get past T5 and regeneration. So it can (sort of) hold its own against elite infantry.

AlphariusOmegon20
04-11-2011, 14:57
Dire Wolves work in CONJUNCTION with a vargulf, not as a substitute.

Dire Wolves can not march ( VC undead can not), needing a Vampire nearby to do so. The Vargulf satisfies this rule, and this works for Black Knights and riderless Terrorgeists to be able to march also.

The Vargulf is a capable fighter, but that's not it's role in the army now. It's a supporting unit designed to make your army faster.

Memnos
04-11-2011, 14:59
The Varghulf is a great support unit. It can't break a unit on its own, but it's a monster - That means it gets Thunderstomp.

It's a great way to help win combats with your deep ranks.

Leogun_91
04-11-2011, 15:30
Do you think the rules for the Varghulf will be changed/how would you change them??I do think they will be changed and would personally make him a character (as supported by the fluff written for the Varghulf...I still think it's strange they add new things like the Varghulf and Throgg and then make rules and fluff that doesn't match, with new units there isnīt even a good reason for it) but I don't think that's the way GW will go.
The Varghulf lost a lot when you lost the ability to regenerate crumble (the banner was OP, the Varghulf needed it) so I'd rather have the wolves.

Ville
04-11-2011, 16:23
Dire Wolves work in CONJUNCTION with a vargulf, not as a substitute.

Dire Wolves can not march ( VC undead can not), needing a Vampire nearby to do so. The Vargulf satisfies this rule, and this works for Black Knights and riderless Terrorgeists to be able to march also.

The Vargulf is a capable fighter, but that's not it's role in the army now. It's a supporting unit designed to make your army faster.

This.

Being a Vampire, Varghulf is very helpful to get your flanking units moving properly. He can also threaten smaller enemy units/lone wizards/etc and sometimes join a bigger fight to swing combat res to your favor. I think he is pretty underestimated nowadays.

BigbyWolf
04-11-2011, 16:26
One Varghulf is so-so, two work very well together.

Lathrael
04-11-2011, 19:07
This.

Being a Vampire, Varghulf is very helpful to get your flanking units moving properly. He can also threaten smaller enemy units/lone wizards/etc and sometimes join a bigger fight to swing combat res to your favor. I think he is pretty underestimated nowadays.

Still, wolves are crap. Yes they are cheap but low ini, T3 and thanks to cavalary size they got both exposed flank and front. And unlike chaos hounds and similiar units, they cannot flee.

They tend to give away more combat res than they can possibly get and impractical to do other things like warmachine hunt.

Ville
04-11-2011, 20:26
Yep, I hope those puppies were better. Horrible models too, but I like their general idea.

popisdead
04-11-2011, 20:36
AFAIK it has Thunderstomp and Hatred? Seems pretty good to me for 150 points. Plus Regen right?

Ghorgon doesn't have Hatred or Regen and nearly twice the cost,.. seems like the Vargulf is pretty good.

Ville
04-11-2011, 20:48
AFAIK it has Thunderstomp and Hatred? Seems pretty good to me for 150 points. Plus Regen right?

Ghorgon doesn't have Hatred or Regen and nearly twice the cost,.. seems like the Vargulf is pretty good.

It costs the same as Hydra and it has all those abilities. Yes, he's quite decent!

Chiron
04-11-2011, 22:27
Vargul and Wraiths on one flank means the enemy is in for a really tough time of it, lovely combo

Rosstifer
05-11-2011, 03:20
AFAIK it has Thunderstomp and Hatred? Seems pretty good to me for 150 points. Plus Regen right?

Ghorgon doesn't have Hatred or Regen and nearly twice the cost,.. seems like the Vargulf is pretty good.

Comparing anything to Ghorgons (Except Cygor, Jabberslythes and Giants) makes me a saaaad Beastmen player :(

Hopefully the new model in December is awesome. Or I'll actually have to man up and buy the Banelegions one.

OT - As has been stated, the Varghulf is an awesome support unit, and a sexy model. I've found that charging him into flanks and rears is also effective, he put's out a fair amount of damage against infantry.

Jind_Singh
05-11-2011, 06:25
I know a few decent Vamp Count players who swear by their Varghulfs - and as a player who has faced them - I put some time and energy into removing them from play - while on their own they can be contained, the fact is only a mupet VC player will allow you to do so! I always find them tough - they are fairly cheap for what they do, extremely maneuverable, and they take a bit of a beating before they die - not to mention they hit fairly hard in combat.

Stick one of those into the flank of a unit hit in the front by something else - they make for good times.

High Toughness with regen means I end up spending more points than the model is worth to bring it down - that makes it a good unit in my books

sulla
05-11-2011, 23:17
From playing against them, I tend to think terrorgeists have raised the bar enough as to make them a better choice than a varghulf in almost any way that counts.

Unless you need a nearby vampire to support your knights/dogs, I'd take 'geists instead. The shooting attack alone is almost worth the cost.

I'd wait until the new book before getting a vargulf.

AlphariusOmegon20
06-11-2011, 01:33
From playing against them, I tend to think terrorgeists have raised the bar enough as to make them a better choice than a varghulf in almost any way that counts.

Unless you need a nearby vampire to support your knights/dogs, I'd take 'geists instead. The shooting attack alone is almost worth the cost.

I'd wait until the new book before getting a vargulf.

Unfortunately, I'd point out that the Geist needs a Vamp nearby too. That would be it's main weakness without a rider.

You need BOTH to make it work.

xavos
06-11-2011, 14:30
I like to charge the Varghulf against cavalry and heroes, especially ones mounted on monsters. They are still good for hunting down small units.

the gribbly
06-11-2011, 21:11
I agree the varg is an amazing support element with a sweet concept. I would kill to have access to a vargulf equivalent in my army, perhaps the animal form of alter kindreds. Compare them to combat vamp heroes and their value and efficiency becomes readily apparent.

Bodysnatcher
06-11-2011, 22:32
Two terrorgheists supported by a Vargulf to let them fly march are just nasty.

Maoriboy007
07-11-2011, 01:53
I've never really seen the big deal about Varghulfs, they are ok but not overly so considering thier cost and rarity. They are reasonably fast , but only as much as any cavalry unit and they don't fly or anything.
They crumble and have low initiative so big whoop, the Coach is better value IMO. Pity cause I love the model, but unless I get lucky with it usually gets removed by shooting magic or a good whipping before it does anything profound.

AlphariusOmegon20
07-11-2011, 14:37
I've never really seen the big deal about Varghulfs, they are ok but not overly so considering thier cost and rarity. They are reasonably fast , but only as much as any cavalry unit and they don't fly or anything.
They crumble and have low initiative so big whoop, the Coach is better value IMO. Pity cause I love the model, but unless I get lucky with it usually gets removed by shooting magic or a good whipping before it does anything profound.

The problem with the Coach is it steals power dice. In an army that must rely on magic as much as VC do, that's a bad choice compared to the vargulf, which has no such downside.

sulla
07-11-2011, 16:23
Unfortunately, I'd point out that the Geist needs a Vamp nearby too. That would be it's main weakness without a rider.

You need BOTH to make it work.10" flying and 10 + swiftstride charge are usually sufficient once it's on the flank.

AlphariusOmegon20
09-11-2011, 04:22
10" flying and 10 + swiftstride charge are usually sufficient once it's on the flank.

Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just harassing the flank, then yeah, that does work. If you're going to the full on right hook speed kill shot, then no, you still need the Vargulf.

Askari
09-11-2011, 06:37
Yeah I tag-team a Varghulf and a Terrorgheist. The Varghulf presents another monster target that needs to be shot/killed, allows the Terrorgheist to march, and when you charge, the two monsters can win combat against, if not overrun, most enemy units.

9 S5 Attacks, 5 of which have Hatred and 4 have Poison, the Terrorgheist's scream and 2D6 Thunderstomp hits, lovely. Against S3 infantry in particular, you'd be unlucky to take a wound in return.

Bodysnatcher
09-11-2011, 06:49
Ever tried him with two TGs?

sulla
14-11-2011, 04:20
Depends on what you're trying to do. If you're just harassing the flank, then yeah, that does work. If you're going to the full on right hook speed kill shot, then no, you still need the Vargulf.
:eyebrows: So you move 20" in your first turn and scream... then you're saying you need more than 10" and a scream or 10" plus swiftstride in turn2? Are you deploying them very deep in your deployment zone or something?


The problem with the Coach is it steals power dice. In an army that must rely on magic as much as VC do, that's a bad choice compared to the vargulf, which has no such downside. Do they really need as much magic in 8th? Now that initiative is not that big an issue for combat purposes, and with poison multiattack core and great weapon specials, I don't think you need magic anywhere near as much as you did in 7th.

AlphariusOmegon20
14-11-2011, 04:46
:eyebrows: So you move 20" in your first turn and scream... then you're saying you need more than 10" and a scream or 10" plus swiftstride in turn2? Are you deploying them very deep in your deployment zone or something?

The extra inches are for maneuvering into a better position than just a side shot with the scream. I prefer to be in the rear 45 degrees of their flank, as it forces that unit to make a hard decision. Either you turn and deal with the Terrorgeist and leave your rear open to that Vargulf that didn't move as far as the Terrogeist did or you can deal with the Vargulf and let the Terrogeist have the rear charge.

it creates a "pick your poison" situation.


Do they really need as much magic in 8th? Now that initiative is not that big an issue for combat purposes, and with poison multiattack core and great weapon specials, I don't think you need magic anywhere near as much as you did in 7th.


You're assuming everyone uses Ghouls though. I don't use them at all. I run a skellie list that gets bigger and bigger every turn, in addition to creating huge zombie units out of thin air. VC live and die by the magic phase, no matter whether they run the Ghoul list or the Skellie one, because how the VC win games is through attrition.

As aside note, I've found you'll live and die by Corpse Carts also. A forbidden Lore Light Vamp works well with taking away any advantage most armies, including High Elves, have due to the Speed of Light Spell paired up with the Cart's Miasma.