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View Full Version : Lore oh lore, oh which lore to take



Joeman169
04-11-2011, 22:34
I am taking a Dark elf army to a tournament and I know Shadow is the most popular, but I am only having a single lvl 2 and wonder if Shadow, Fire or Dark magic would be best for an all around list.

russellmoo
05-11-2011, 05:49
If you have access to shadow then take the lore of shadow it is the best of the BRB lores

Especially for dark elves- here is the breakdown-

Sig- for the most part your core is WS4 and your elites are WS5 this means that the signature spell can allow you to hit on 3's against any opponent (which works well with hatred)

1- this might be the only spell you don't want or need
2- This spell is great for protecting your T3 troops
3- This spell really helps you wound with your low strength units (most dark elves)
4- This spell is great against all of the new armybooks, and is only worthless against Skaven and other elves
5- This spell is devastating to most armies except for the above mentioned-
6- All of your units are LD8 or greater- this spell wins games

So, in short- the only reason not to take shadow is because your local meta is Elves and Skaven

teafloy_the_damned
05-11-2011, 09:01
In the last 5 games i've played, magic has sucked up so many points and done so little.
Its easy to dispel and when you do get the average spell off its "oooh i've lost 5 models....i could of done that with bowfire"

......EXCEPT, shaddow magic

That 1 poxy law has lost me more games in the past than anything else.

You line up the combat, know you'll destry them....they get a lucky few hexes off and your 600pt unit is running from 150pts worth of tosh!

My rule of magic is, if it aint Shaddow, then it aint worth spit!

Joeman169
05-11-2011, 17:20
I figured that was the answer I would get. I guess in a tournament setting it is the best way to go, I just don't wanna be like everyone else, but I would like to get in the top half of a tournament I guess.

Thanks

riven5
05-11-2011, 19:45
I should note that the number 2 and 3 spells are Remains In Play for Lore of Shadow. I think some folks forget this. As a result they carry all the problems and advantages that RiP spells do, so just keep that in mind. I for one enjoy their RiP nature as it helps to screw with enemy magic phases, but some folks would prefer undispellable debuffs.

w3rm
06-11-2011, 22:36
Theyre not remains in play unfortunately.

a18no
07-11-2011, 18:10
If I can take only one lore, it would be shadow. In tournement, the basic spell is your best friend against high elf, so go for it. Plus, as a dark elf you can throw 12 dices to a mindrazor...

tmarichards
07-11-2011, 18:19
I've had good results running a level 1 Fire Mage with a scroll as my only magic option- she's so cheap that it doesn't matter if she croaks, and 3D6 Fireballs are pretty simple for her to cast.

I don't like Shadow if you only have a baby Mage, Shadow has several rubbish spells that you don't want to be landed with, and the good ones are fairly difficult to cast.

A level 1 Fire Mage would be my bet, the second level isn't really worthwhile.

riven5
07-11-2011, 20:27
Theyre not remains in play unfortunately.

Unless my book is incorrect (I'm literally looking at the spells right now), the 2 and 3 spells from Lore of Shadow are listed as being Remains in Play. Was there an errata that changed this that I'm not aware of?

Zoolander
07-11-2011, 21:34
I take Dark every time. Useful all the way around and incredibly low casting values means lots of spells off. Combined with a sacrificial dagger and you have a mean magic phase.

popisdead
09-11-2011, 20:58
Flaming or Metal on a lvl 2 is handy. You want something to turn off regen. If you took the Ruby Ring then another shadow (giving you a second Miasma and another chance if you don't get mindrazor).

Warhammer002
10-11-2011, 12:09
In my own experience shadow is like marmite, you either love it or hate it.

I'm not a fan of it because I don't think it's very effective compared to other lores (and it dosn't go with my play style). If I was you I would go with either fire or dark since they both get the job done (to kill kill kill).

Dreadlordpaul
10-11-2011, 13:03
I always take dark always have done and most likely always will do because dark has a spell for every situation. Oh your enemy has a annoying shooting unit, Chillwind it. They have some armoured elites. Doombolt it. etc

Capt._Jaelinek
11-11-2011, 02:31
I just haven't gotten the hang of Shadow yet. Casting values are high and a level 2 is going to have a tough time getting the good spells off.

Dark Magic is easy to cast, but against T4 or higher it fails to wound consistently. I really do like Dark Magic, but not convinced it's the way to go in an all-comers list.

Fireballs are always consistent and can be cast at higher values, but some of the fire spells really suck in my opinion. Haven't played a lot of games using fire, but in an all comers list it's tempting if all you have is a level 2.

As luck (all bad) would have it, in games where I took Shadow I wished I had Dark and in games I took Dark I wished I had Shadow!

Dreadlordpaul
11-11-2011, 08:38
I just haven't gotten the hang of Shadow yet. Casting values are high and a level 2 is going to have a tough time getting the good spells off.

Dark Magic is easy to cast, but against T4 or higher it fails to wound consistently. I really do like Dark Magic, but not convinced it's the way to go in an all-comers list.

Fireballs are always consistent and can be cast at higher values, but some of the fire spells really suck in my opinion. Haven't played a lot of games using fire, but in an all comers list it's tempting if all you have is a level 2.

As luck (all bad) would have it, in games where I took Shadow I wished I had Dark and in games I took Dark I wished I had Shadow!

Well you could always take 2 level 2s one with dark and another with shadow

tmarichards
11-11-2011, 12:50
I just haven't gotten the hang of Shadow yet.

Run Corsairs into them and cast Mindrazor, or point shades at them and cast Withering, jobs a good'un :)

Capt._Jaelinek
11-11-2011, 21:28
Run Corsairs into them and cast Mindrazor, or point shades at them and cast Withering, jobs a good'un :)

I know which spells to use, it's more just getting practice on casting order and how many dice to roll to make sure it goes off and doesn't get dispelled!:cool:

a18no
15-11-2011, 20:44
I know which spells to use, it's more just getting practice on casting order and how many dice to roll to make sure it goes off and doesn't get dispelled!:cool:

A really simple rule i use for casting: 1 more dice than average. If I really want the spell, 2 dices more than average.

A 18+ spell, cast by a lvl 4 need 14, the average for 14 is 4 dices, so you use 5.

This rule is simple, and very effective.

1 dice is average 3
2 dices is average 7
3 is 10
4 is 14
5 is 17
6 is 21

Good luck!

tmarichards
15-11-2011, 21:27
Dark Elves have it very nicely. Not sure how many dice to use? Use ALL THE DICE!!

13 dice Mindrazor is a thing of beauty...

Glenn87
15-11-2011, 23:15
Do Dark Elves actually ALWAYS have the Power of Darkness spell, even if they don't take Dark Magic? I asked our GW Manager, and we decided she did.

The wording is:
ALL Dark Elf wizards know the Power of Darkness spell in addition to their other spells.

If so, then even a low lvl 2 can kick ass! (and I can know it, as we use it this way).

Roll for winds of magic, use 2 dice to cast this spell. Opp will have to throw dice at it, if he doesn't, you've got a change of getting 1-2 EXTRA dice (on top of the 2 you regain from the casting attempt).

Shadow IS the best lore for DE's.
If you roll a crappy spell (Pendulum or Steed of Shadows), just switch it in for the sig spell. The sig spell is actually an AWESOME spell.
it could make most units need '5s to hit you, could remove the HE's nasty re-rolls for ASF.

Reducing the opp's S is nice, but not one of my favorites. I'd even consider switching for the sig spell (unless you roll Steed or Pendulum).

Reducing the T might be the 2nd best spell (together with Miasma). Think about this:
Cast spell, lower toughness to 1-2 (most stuff you'll come across will have T3). Suddenly, all of your Repeater Crossbows will hit on 2's :D Same for combat, if you don't roll Mindrazor (or don't have the dice for it), you've got another chance of wounding on 2's

Have only ever rolled Pit of Shades that I kept it, not TO big of a fan, but depends on matchup. Against Dwarfs, Ogres and O&G it's great, against Skaven, Chaos or Elves it sucks. Actually, after reading it again, I'd say this is the BEST spell against Ogres :)

Mindrazor: enough said about this spell, it rocks!!


Personally, my favorite spells at low-point games for a lvl 2 is Miasma and Withering. These spells support your units like nothing else. Withering is REALLY good if you've got a bunch of Shades standing close enough to be hitting on 3's or 4's and then wound on 2's.

Capt._Jaelinek
15-11-2011, 23:52
There are lots of T4 armies out there. I have begun tailoring my list to deal with them, but that's my meta.

Great comment on how many dice to throw!

Dreadlordpaul
17-11-2011, 14:29
Shadow could be a good lore if you have accsess to it as you can weaken their toughness but fire and beasts could help as well it would also help to know which army you play

Zoolander
18-11-2011, 21:49
Yes Dark Elves always have PoD even if they choose another lore.

Joeman169
21-11-2011, 21:05
With only a single lvl 2 I have been playing with Fire. I love this lore and have found it to be most usefull in almost every game. Not many things that a lvl 3 fireball cant damage. Fulmanating flame cage I think is my second favorite, escecially against Horde armies, and Flaming Sword is my overall second fav spell.

I tried Shadow and do think it is a very powerful lore. With a lvl 4 in my List I think I would definitely take Shadow, along with the Tomb of Furion.

Dreadlordpaul
24-11-2011, 09:35
I have never actually used shadow as I mainly play with my vampire counts now and I really have other spells to use those powerdice on. My favourite lore actually has to be the armies own lore because generally they have a nice bit of everything in there

tmarichards
24-11-2011, 09:48
You mean the ability to generate +4 power dice each phase, line them up in pairs and then repeatedly try to roll a 3/4+ on those dice?

I hate that spell...

Dreadlordpaul
24-11-2011, 10:27
I have never seen that spell unless your refering to Power Of Darkness

tmarichards
25-11-2011, 01:15
Nope, I meant Master of the Black Arts and Vanhels after you mentioned VC

Rosstifer
25-11-2011, 01:25
You mean the ability to generate +4 power dice each phase, line them up in pairs and then repeatedly try to roll a 3/4+ on those dice?

I hate that spell...

No worse than Mindrazor ;)

I hate it too though, I'd much rather Grave Guard didn't get all up in my grill turn 2.

For Dark Elves, Shadow is definitely the most point and click option. Fire is decent on a level 1 or 2, Metal, as demonstrated ably by tmarichards in his latest batreps is solid, but a bit situational. On anything other than a level 4 wizard, your going with the signature spell most of time and Shadow, Fire and Metal all have good signature spells. Death... not so much really.

Dreadlordpaul
25-11-2011, 06:57
Oh haha. Personally I never use master of the black arts as im trying to do a blood dragons list and I cant see them mastering magic at all. I do however use van hels as it enables me to get closer and limit the damage shooting can do