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teclis1er
05-11-2011, 08:50
Teclis=475

Noble,BSB,armour of caledor,great weapon=143

Mage,lv1,dispell scroll,ruby ring of ruin(lore of fire)=125

12 Archers,musician=137

12 Archers,musician=137

12 Archers,musician=137

20 Seaguard,full command,shields,banner of eternal flame=295

20 Swordmasters,full command,banner of arcane protection,amulet of light=370

20 Phoenix guard,full command,banner of sorcery=380

Repeater Bolt Thrower=100

Repeater Bolt Thrower=100

Great Eagle=50

Great Eagle=50

Total=2499

Note:While not a tournament list this list is designed to be competative.

Any feedback apreciated,Thanks

SlannFtw
05-11-2011, 13:27
white lions even as a body guard i find are very inefective in most ways and are hard to use competitively even with korhil ull be hard pressed to use em
if u want a stalwart unit use phoenix guard
if u want a heavy hitter use sword masters
i made the mistake when starting a high elf army of buying a crap load of white lions and ended up having a hard time
also i know this goes against ur name but if its a fun game dont use teclis even my friend who loves teclis only ever uses him in competitions due to his power
i have nothing against teclis as he is a good character (though alittle unbalanced in points) and i cant say i dont use hard to beat characters (i use my converted kairos)
so if ur competitive use teclis and drop the white lions for phoenix guard or sword masters (depending on ur build)

Fallen-prince
05-11-2011, 16:03
Teclis is a fantastic chara but you hit right on the money ... White lions just don't stack up to sword masters.

thesheriff
05-11-2011, 18:34
white lions even as a body guard i find are very inefective in most ways and are hard to use competitively even with korhil ull be hard pressed to use em
if u want a stalwart unit use phoenix guard
if u want a heavy hitter use sword masters
i made the mistake when starting a high elf army of buying a crap load of white lions and ended up having a hard time
so if ur competitive use teclis and drop the white lions for phoenix guard or sword masters (depending on ur build)

You are Wrong.

Whitelions are not "jack of all trades, master of none". Thats seaguard. Whitelions are a fantastic unit by anyones standard. Equal to Swordsmasters. If not better.

For starters, they are higher Strength than swordsmasters. Which means they are better at wounding eilites/monsters. And its an extra -sv is useful too.

Also, they are more durable, and one of the key issues with swordsmasters is the fact small arms/bow fire eats them up. The 3+ makes this far better in most circumstances.

In a classic 7x2/3 frontage of Swordsmasters against Empire Swordsmen, they do 11.88 wounds. This is similar against warriors of chaos, a marginal lead, due to the extra Ws. However, pit the White lions against say a unit of treekin, Swordsmasters end with 4.75 wounds, White lions with 5.185.

All of that mathhammer i hope has made you see one thing, that they are incredibly similar for damage output. But, on top of that, the White Lions remove one key weakness with high elves, there suceptibility to low S shooting. Which, IMO, makes them the superior choice.

So, if you dont want your white lions mate.....

trotsky
05-11-2011, 21:47
White lions are a great elite choice. Swordmasters often need a life mage to protect them and often thats still not enough. Phoenix guard are good but again either need a prince on foot or shadow magic to give them the punch needed. White lions need no support to perform well which means you can focus your magic on the rest of your army.

teclis1er
06-11-2011, 07:23
I'm going to playtest both lions and swordmasters.One of the reasons to take swordmasters is they are the only high elf unit that can successfully hold a watch tower.The main reason I kept them at 20.Also other than sword masters vs white lions what do you think of the list?

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
06-11-2011, 10:28
You are Wrong.

Whitelions are not "jack of all trades, master of none". Thats seaguard. Whitelions are a fantastic unit by anyones standard. Equal to Swordsmasters. If not better.

For starters, they are higher Strength than swordsmasters. Which means they are better at wounding eilites/monsters. And its an extra -sv is useful too.

Also, they are more durable, and one of the key issues with swordsmasters is the fact small arms/bow fire eats them up. The 3+ makes this far better in most circumstances.

In a classic 7x2/3 frontage of Swordsmasters against Empire Swordsmen, they do 11.88 wounds. This is similar against warriors of chaos, a marginal lead, due to the extra Ws. However, pit the White lions against say a unit of treekin, Swordsmasters end with 4.75 wounds, White lions with 5.185.

All of that mathhammer i hope has made you see one thing, that they are incredibly similar for damage output. But, on top of that, the White Lions remove one key weakness with high elves, there suceptibility to low S shooting. Which, IMO, makes them the superior choice.

So, if you dont want your white lions mate.....

I second White Lions as the elite of choice for HE armies. One other key thing they have over swordmasters is that they have stubborn. I can't count the number of times my White Lions held the line when things got tough. They are nigh unstoppable with a 4th lvl. Life mage and a BSB in the regiment.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
06-11-2011, 10:33
I'm going to playtest both lions and swordmasters.One of the reasons to take swordmasters is they are the only high elf unit that can successfully hold a watch tower.The main reason I kept them at 20.Also other than sword masters vs white lions what do you think of the list?

IMO I would go with Lions & Sword masters instead of Phoenix guard if you want more damage output for your elites. While the Ward save is nice I never seem to get as much use out of Pheonix Guard as I do with the WL or SM.

The list itself is a decent bowline army. I've noticed you didn't select a lore of Teclis yet. I'd suggest using either Lore of Shadows for the Debuffs or Lore of Death to enable Teclis to rein destruction on the opposing army due to the Lore's attribute of generating power dice. If going defensively then Lore of Life or Lore of Light (if facing heavy warmachine opposition) is a good choice as well.

Kroq9Gar
06-11-2011, 15:36
I agree. WL are great! Strength 6 is brilliant against knights. Admittedly I only play against brets and vc, so I have more need for high strength guys, but led by Korhil they just kill units of knights without the chance of fleeing and being overrun.

calnen
06-11-2011, 19:09
5th'ed, or whatever it is, for the white lions.

Swordmasters are great in small units (up to 14, say). As the units get bigger, the white lions get more and more appealing - there's very little that can go toe-to-toe with 30 of the buggers for 450 pts.

mo-man
07-11-2011, 13:08
Just out of curiosity but how come you have no dragon princes they work well with teclis and which lore do you usually go for with him?
You're right though str 6 versus knights is good but it's nothing compaired to str 9 dragon princes. Which one of my friends at the local store does well and it's very annoying to play against. It all boils down to personal preference really for example what unit's you like the most or what unit's have you found work best for your army, your play style. Do you prefer to stand back and wittle the pponent down with magic/shooting or do you prefer to be in their face in combat as quickly as possible.

teclis1er
07-11-2011, 14:35
Given this alot of though and reckon this is the list I want to start playtesting.Completely different to the above list but what the hell.

Teclis=475

Noble,BSB,armour of caledor,great weapon=143

Mage,lv1,dispell scroll=125

20 Spearmen,full command=205

20 Spearmen,full command=205

20 Seaguard,full command,shields,banner of eternal flame=295

20 Pheonixguard,full command,banner of sorcery=380

20 Swordmasters,full command,banner of arcane protection,amulet of light=370

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

2 Great Eagles

The main reason I'm taking pheonixguard over whitelions is I want a safe bunker for teclis and my noble.I've also been considering alternative lores on teclis.I reckon lore of metal or heavens could work pretty well in certain situations.Heavens vs say orks and goblins and metal against a gunline

Morax
07-11-2011, 19:53
Given this alot of though and reckon this is the list I want to start playtesting.Completely different to the above list but what the hell.

Teclis=475

Most would say that if you want to play competitively he is a must. Not really. If you want to play optimized he is a must but you can do competitive without him. Take a look at your local meta and determine if you have to be optimized to be competitive. If the answer is no then Teclis is a bit of a crutch.

Noble,BSB,armour of caledor,great weapon=143

High strength is rampant and the propensity for your opponent to always get attacks back means you should look at getting this guy a second save. Either that means the Guardian pheonix or Teclis casting earthblood. Either way works.

Mage,lv1,dispell scroll=125

If you are using Teclis you do not need a scroll caddy. Teclis' +d3 dispell dice, +4 to dispel, and special dispell scroll is more then enough to shut down an opponents magic phase if need be. Make him a level 2 wizard with seer staff and give him a complementary lore to Teclis' lore. I'll talk about this in the end.

20 Spearmen,full command=205

20 Spearmen,full command=205

20 spearmen are brittle. At t3 and a 5+ save you need more bodies to make a unit worth fielding. 7 wide is a good frontage for high elves so with that in mind I would say units of 35 or more. A unit of 42 would work and with the dropping of one command that would be about what you would have.

20 Seaguard,full command,shields,banner of eternal flame=295

I like seaguard in giant units. 15 shots may not get a wound in on a hydra and more maybe needed. I like units of 40-50 formed in a horde. 35 shots per turn and stand and shoot with 20. After that you are a spearelf with asf fighting in 5 ranks. A lot of people will underestimate a unit like that when they have a choice between them and swordmasters.

20 Pheonixguard,full command,banner of sorcery=380

A good sized bunker. If you need extra points you can shrink them down by a few models as you will be putting characters in the unit. Not a big change but it can find you points quickly for little changes elsewhere.

20 Swordmasters,full command,banner of arcane protection,amulet of light=370

I like the size of the unit and would field them 7x3 with a character in there. The level 1/2 mage would be ok as people want to avoid combat with this unit. I would drop the banner tho as MR is next to useless in 8th. Save the points to afford a few more boots on the ground.

2 Repeater Bolt Throwers

Some people swear by them, others think they aren't worth the space they take up on the field. I'm in the latter camp but if they work for you then great. I wouldn't get too attached to them tho as the 200 points can be better used in the form of a unit of white lions imo.

2 Great Eagles

Great inclusion, should be in every high elf list.

The main reason I'm taking pheonixguard over whitelions is I want a safe bunker for teclis and my noble.I've also been considering alternative lores on teclis.I reckon lore of metal or heavens could work pretty well in certain situations.Heavens vs say orks and goblins and metal against a gunline

That's a fine reason for taking pheonix guard. For lores for Teclis you don't really want to do anything crazy. He needs to shore up the weaknesses of the high elf army around him, not go all crazy on things that might be usefull. Shadow and Life work best for him as Shadow can lower enemy strength and weapon skill while Life improves your saves, toughness and gives you models back from the dead. Both add surviveability to units that otherwise don't have it although shadow has better offensive spells and life has better restorative spells. The Level 2 with seer staff is where you get tricky with highelf magic. Going with life on Teclis? Make the level 2 fire, shadow, or death.

Fire - Flaming Sword of Ruin buffs units to kill crap and neuters regen deathstars. Fulminating Flame Cage immobilizes tarpits and giant units that you don't want clogging up your elites. Fireball...well it's fireball.

Shadow - Mindrazor on spearmen/lotheren seaguard is just plain ugly. Miasma is the best hex in the game due to its versitility. The Withering turns bow fire and spears into a threat that must be addressed.

Death - Character sniping out both ends in Curse, Fate, and Spirit Leech. Purple Sun is the ultimate in monstar busting. Soul Blight before an IF Dwellers Below is ugly and neuters most deathstars to the point it is laughable.

Loads of options for the life Teclis and just as many for a shadow Teclis.

tmarichards
07-11-2011, 20:12
Teclis is the preserve of bad players who have no idea how to play the game, smash bad players in their local GW/gaming group and then think they're awesome. Stay away from him.