View Full Version : 2500 vs OnG

05-11-2011, 15:27
As usual, the full report with integrated pics etc can be found here: http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=67&t=35318&p=735401#p735401

My second game from Sunday, facing Iniesta's Orcs and Goblins. Counting well over 200 models in his army, I knew I'd face a foe more numerous than ever before.

:: The Green Horde ::

His army list was roughly as follows:

Orc lvl 4 mage - hex scroll
Black Orc BSB - ??
Orc lvl 1 mage - 5+ ward save for savage orcs
Goblin lvl 2 mage - power stone
Goblin lvl 1 mage - dispel scroll

27 Savage Orcs
95 Speargoblins
80 Archer Goblins
25 Archer Goblins
3x10 squig herds (1 squig each)
2 Mangler Squigs
1 Snotling Pump Wagon
2 Catapults
2 Doom Divers
2 Bolt Throwers

My army list was a slight deviation:

Archmage, ring of fury, wand, anti-fire gem
Mage, crystal
BSB Reaver
Prince Armour of Stars, Seafarer

Standard core

30 White Lions, Banner of Sorcery + other trickster's shard
7 Swordmasters

2 Eagles

:: Getting ready and deploying ::

We rolled Meeting Engagement - a special version where you don't have reserves. I got to choose corner and deploy first. Magic was as follows for him:
Lvl 4 - 1,3,5,6
Orc lvl 1 - 4
Goblin lvl 2 - 1, 5
Goblin lvl 1 - 4

For me:
Metal - 2, 3
High - 1,2,4,5,6


Note: Swordmasters are not shown here as I (again) failed to include them in Battle Chronicler. They were deployed behind the hill on my North flank.

I went first after he failed to roll a 6.

:: High Elves Turn 1 ::

Small shuffles, including getting my Archmage in turn for Flames by marching the Archers.

Magic sees Vaul's scrolled (targeted his big Spear Goblins). I get Flames through and it obliterates roughly half his unit and puts a wound on the BSB.

Shooting - not much is in range. The RBT's combine to bring the Pump Wagon down to 1W.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/Olannon/2500_hexconprep_OnG_Turn_1_Curu_Olannons_Vindicato rs_25k.jpg

:: Orcs and Goblins Turn 1 ::

Everything moves up, characters swapping unit. Magic 8v7. He starts off with an IF Gork's Warpath on 5D6 which fails to do much. The result draws away his remaining 3D6, meaning Flames come again next phase at S4!

Shooting kills an Eagle and a few Archers from my Archmage's bunker. Panic is passed, no worries.


:: High Elves Turn 2 ::

Shuffling further behind to gain a turn more worth of shooting in against him. The remaining Eagle moves close to 2 units of Goblins, drawing out a single fanatic and succumbing to the little spinner (this fanatic was the only one he had (!) and did nothing for the rest of the game).

Magic sees Flames take him down to 17 models remaining. The rest of the phase is 9v6 but I fail to impress him by failing casting rolls and him dispelling Flames on the 80 Archers.

Shooting does very little, all I can manage is to kill a mangler.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/Olannon/2500_hexconprep_OnG_Turn_2_Curu_Olannons_Vindicato rs_25k.jpg

:: Orcs and Goblins Turn 2 ::

An animosity roll is failed, rest move up. Savage Orcs enter the central building, pump wagon charges my Swordmasters (who are still not in the diagram - sorry!).

Magic is 6v6 - he uses power stone to move his Bow Horde and I let it go, fearing his mage-sniping spells. The rest is dispelled.

Shooting does next to nothing.

Combat - 3 Swordmasters remain after the Pump Wagon is done. They kill it and reform to face his Northmost Squig Herd.


:: High Elves Turn 3 ::

Swordmasters charge Squig Herd.

Lions wheel to force his Savages out of the building to prevent a charge on his Archer Horde. Archmage jumps back to Archers.

Magic 12v7. Vaul's on 4D6 (Savage Orcs) is Hex Scrolled but it fails to do anything. I remove his improved ward save. Fury goes through, killing a Squid. Curse is dispelled, as is Flames.

Shooting kills a little here and there, nothing major though.

Combat - I kill his Herd and a single Swordmaster survives, overrunning.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/Olannon/2500_hexconprep_OnG_Turn_3_Curu_Olannons_Vindicato rs_25k.jpg

:: Orcs and Goblins Turn 3 ::

Savages move out of building. Rest move up, though 1 herd fails animosity.

Magic is 11v7. He starts off with an IF Brainbursta, dealing 1W. I dispel the rest.

Shooting kills a couple of Lions and a couple of Archers.


:: High Elves Turn 4 ::

I charge his Savage Orcs.

Magic 6v3 - I simply cast it all at Flames and he's powerless to defend. 42 of the Goblins burn up. What I have worth of shooting goes into the Horde, too, leaving around 25-30 only.

Combat - with Trickster's Shard I'm able to locate a lot of attacks forcing him to re-roll wards. This ensures I kill a LOT of the Savages (I believe it was like 17, leaving 10) and the Prince kills his mage in a challenge. He kills 1 (!!) Lion in return and is run down.

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l200/Olannon/2500_hexconprep_OnG_Turn_4_Curu_Olannons_Vindicato rs_25k.jpg

After this, he concedes the game: both his big Hordes are reduced to next-to-nothing, his combat unit is dead and my Lions are 23 remaining.

:: Victory Points ::

As he surrendered it's a massacre to the High Elves!

:: Evaluation ::

Finally, a win! Having had quite a few losses recently, this felt good.

With that being said, let's analyze what happened:

First of all, as he commented himself, he could've just deployed in the opposite corner and taken a small victory by killing RBT's + Eagles. I would've been powerless against this. A lot of lists are able to do this against me, meaning that I'm having a very hard time playing Meeting Engagement - I can't just deploy close to him either!

As the game played out, I yet again find the army rather static. I don't believe it would've been better for me to create any dynamics here. Playing as I did, a static gunline, is probably optimal, given his deployment. To be honest I find this playstyle very boring - the only tactical decisions you make is how many dice to throw at what spell and what to shoot at. Movement is next to non-existant. With him being unable to deal with my Lions at range, it's a given that they'll murder anything they meet in close combat, especially backed up by Saerith.

Granted, this scenario does favour castling tactics, especially with such a tiered hill piece. Regardless, I feel that every victory I have with this list (so far) is because I play it statically and simply make the 'obvious response' moves. Granted, a win against OK would've made me feel otherwise, as in that game I dictated the movement throughout exactly as I wanted to.

I'm left with the following questions, having played most of the scenarios in the upcoming tournament:
- How do I deal with an army like this in this scenario? I can't deploy in a castle like I did this game, nor can I deploy offensively as it'll be easy for him to choose his fights, way too early.
- How do I deal with the flanks in Blood and Glory? When the width is cut down, achieving a proper refused flank and dictating movement is a lot harder, especially given my rather large footprint
- How does this army play with a lot of terrain? I believe that it'll mostly be a disadvantage for me, as firing lanes become thin and cover is abundant.

Overall, I'm seriously considering simply switching back to the cavalry approach. Having played this kind of a list has been interesting though, and taught me a few things:
- A back-up mage with a good, synergetic spell or two, is golden.
- Annulian Crystal is a must-have, it's simply way too good to be left at home
- High Magic is a very flexible lore but lacks the 'mmmph' to deal with really tough situations
- RBT's are horribly overcosted
- Archers are relatively reliable but they take a long time to actually kill something
- A big unit of Archers can sort of act as a bunker but will break easily to any dedicated combat unit
- White Lions ARE actually worth taking as they're the most forgiving elite infantry unit we have

So, here's a copy of the previously posted list which I, at the moment, consider the most likely list I'll be bringing to the tournament:

Life Archmage with Guardian Phoenix, Silver Wand, Ring of Fury - 335
Prince on Barded Elven Steed with Giant Blade, Helm of Fortune, Talisman of Loec, Dragon Armour, Shield - 281
Nobe BSB with Great Weapon, Armor of Caledor, Dawnstone - 168
Beasts Mage with Annulian Crystal - 140

Characters total: 924

35 Spearelves with Full Command and Banner of Swiftness - 355
12 Archers, musician - 137
12 Archers, musician - 137

Core total: 629

9 Dragon Princes with Full Command and Banner of Sorcery, Ironcurse Icon - 375
15 White Lions with Standard Bearer with Banner of Eternal Flame and Musician - 253
14 Swordmasters with Musician - 216

Special total: 844

1 Great Eagle
1 Great Eagle

Rare total: 100

Army Total: 2497

As you can see it resembles my old thoughts about the cavalry prince approach more than it resembles this magic-shooting synergy list. With that being said, having tried this new approach definitely brought a couple of elements into the list which never would've made it there otherwise.

Thanks for reading, looking forward to your input :)