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Dreadlordpaul
07-11-2011, 13:54
Basically as the title says I need help with my army. Now on to what I need help with. Basically I dont know what direction to really go in with my vampires. Thing is I have tried a combat build as I heard magic heavy builds dont work. However I tried running a combat build and as much as I liked the carnage I could cause in combat it didnt really satisfy me as when I think of a vampire counts army I think of a group of vampires casting magic and raising things from the grave and with necromancers adding to the magical power and raising up hordes of zombies and all the ghoulies. However I have no idea how to get a magic heavy vamps list to work properly so any help would be appriciated is there anything I actually need in my list to make the build work because I really like the idea of a vampire counts army that basically shuts down your enemys magic phase while being super powerful in your own :D

belgarath97
07-11-2011, 14:53
Basically as the title says I need help with my army. Now on to what I need help with. Basically I dont know what direction to really go in with my vampires. Thing is I have tried a combat build as I heard magic heavy builds dont work. However I tried running a combat build and as much as I liked the carnage I could cause in combat it didnt really satisfy me as when I think of a vampire counts army I think of a group of vampires casting magic and raising things from the grave and with necromancers adding to the magical power and raising up hordes of zombies and all the ghoulies. However I have no idea how to get a magic heavy vamps list to work properly so any help would be appriciated is there anything I actually need in my list to make the build work because I really like the idea of a vampire counts army that basically shuts down your enemys magic phase while being super powerful in your own :D

Ok the build I have played with, uses a Vampire Lord and a Vampire. Both take master of the black arts (+2 PD). So on an average Winds of Magic roll you will have 11 PD to your opponents 4-6 DD (Average roll being a 7). Make the Vampire lord a level 4. I also take a black coach. It eats PD and becomes a behemoth in the game.

It's success in my magic phase relies on the Coach doing it's average of 2 dice, still giving me a 3-5 PD advantage. But (again using the average) taking 1 dice from my opponent, giving him 2-0PD advantage. It's about the closest you can get to dominance.

At 2250 I had these characters and a Wight King BSB, and they were beating the tzeentch WoC. At 2K, I droped the WK, and made the Vampire BSB, and the list did not work.

If you want the full list, PM me.

Dreadlordpaul
07-11-2011, 15:04
Okay I will think about it thanks and its good to see that magic heavy vamps can still work :)

Paladin21
07-11-2011, 15:24
Master of the Black Arts isn't terribly great on a hero vampire, as he is the only one that gets to use the dice, and he's just a lvl 1 with a single Vampire spell. I guess you could use it to buffer the dice loss from the Coach, but now you're paying 350 points or more (coach+hero w/master+gear) to exert a marginal gain in the magic phase.

My personal philosophy is that if you are going to go magic-heavy, you should leave the Coach at home. Why make a random phase that you're building the army to exploit even more random? If you roll snake eyes for the winds, and then 2+ 6's for the coach, you'll shoot yourself in the foot. The coach is an excellent tool, I just find that it's more useful to help contain enemy casting in an army setup where I haven't sank many points into magic.

That said, I often do run magic-heavy. I tend to take a lvl 4 lord, and stick him with either a forbidden lore that matches up with the rest of the troop list, or MotBA and stick to the Vampire lore. There's only a couple of spells in the Vampire lore that I really care about, and Vanhel's can be taken on a Necro guaranteed. For forbidden lores, I generally take either Shadow or Beasts, depending on what sort of mood I'm in. The hexes of Shadow and the buffs of Beasts are pretty much a wash in terms of swinging combats. Shadow gives you Pit, which is great, Beasts gives you Savage Beast, which can be murderous if your build supports it, and Amber Spear, which I get a lot of use out of shooting at Sphinxes (F you, toughness 8!). If you stick with Vampire Lore, make sure to give your guy the appropriate skill to increase units past their starting size (skeletons or ghouls, whichever you're using), and hope to get Summon Undead Horde. With a couple of castings of this and some decent dice rolls, you can have some very large combat blocks ready to roll in. In either case, I would still recommend having at least one Necro with Vanhel's and a dispel scroll. I typically have a second one, also with Vanhel's and the Staff of Damnation as well. If you can sneak in that bound spell on a unit of Grave Guard even once, you can pretty much guarantee that your opponents will *always* think twice about how they spend their dispel dice.

Dreadlordpaul
07-11-2011, 15:47
Thanks I was thinking of a vampire lord similar to the one you use with a vampire with another lore and then just sprinking out a few necros just mainly for extra channeling rolls

w3rm
08-11-2011, 00:16
I personally like the Vampire lord who takes off a rank of t3 hordes every turn :D

Sword of Bloodshed, Crown of Command, Enchanted Sheild, Dreadknight, Red Fury, Infinite Hated

Expensive but he averages 10 or so wounds per phase against t3.

Lebowski
08-11-2011, 00:23
I agree with paladin. leave the coach at home for a magic heavy list. You will not really be able to 'shut down' your opponents magic phase, but you still can make your phase pretty strong.

My one word of caution is that it sounds like you want a res(ing) army run by multiple castings of IoN. I would warn you on this. 8th is not friendly to this, I would take a lore from the WHFB and run with it like Paladin recommended. I think the other great options are Lore of Light and Death. Both are top notch and very conducive to vampires I would take a look at these as well (especially death)!

Iraf
08-11-2011, 03:07
I personally like the Vampire lord who takes off a rank of t3 hordes every turn :D

Sword of Bloodshed, Crown of Command, Enchanted Sheild, Dreadknight, Red Fury, Infinite Hated

Expensive but he averages 10 or so wounds per phase against t3.

I believe this combo is 10 points over on magic points used. Anyone able to check my math? In the VC Army book the Enchanted Shield is listed as 15 points, which is what you must pay if using it in a VC army. First paragraph on pg. 172 states that if a "magic item is listed both here and in your Warhammer Armies book, use the points value printed in the latter (Army book)"

Dreadlordpaul
08-11-2011, 06:06
What do you guys think of this lord I thought of last night hes pretty powerful.
Vampire lord with +magic level dark acolyte forbidden lore (light) avatar of death with skullstaff and crown of the damned.

Iraf
08-11-2011, 07:07
I think the skull staff is a bit overpriced in that build. Without it, you're 385 pts for a lvl 4 w/ lore mastery, which should be able to handle most things. I'd spend that extra 65 pts and buy some protection or melee boosting.

Dreadlordpaul
08-11-2011, 07:18
He has the skullstaff to make it easier for him to cast the big spells like bironas time warp and the speed of light. I plan to boost his combat abilities with magic along with the rest of his army which is why I plan to run him with a lore master hero with beast and another with shadows

a18no
08-11-2011, 18:14
I've seen a very good vampire caster. I can't remember exactly the build, but he was a lvl 4, in vampire, with the 3+ ward if alone and the crown of command (the one from the vampire book), with dark art.

The goal was to use it in combination with 2-3 units of 25-30 gouls, and 1 unit of hard hitters (like grave guards, or even a really big unit of gouls like 40-50 in hordes). You cast vanhels on 2 dice, near only that spell actually, to make combine charge with gouls. The goal is to have your big hitters in the front and 1 or even 2 units in the flank/rear. And better if you can give re-roll to hit.

He was using the bond item that allow models in range to strike in the magic phase. With a unit bossted at WS7, with re-roll and Str3 poison or Str4 killing blow, their's not a lot of unit that can stand. The lord is normally outside of unit, with a 3+ ward and 4+ look sir, I've never seen him behing destroyed even against high number of warmachines.

We've found that in 8th, nehek is bad and you should stay away from that. I've not seen great list or strong game with a opponent stiking on that spell. It was WAY too strong back in 7th, but now it don't worth it.

Warning though, expect vanhels to be nerfed in the next book, it's still the last spell from the entire game that can make a unit charge in the magic phase...

SilasOfTheLambs
09-11-2011, 07:17
Warning though, expect vanhels to be nerfed in the next book, it's still the last spell from the entire game that can make a unit charge in the magic phase...

Sort of. Don't forget the Anvil.

Paladin21
09-11-2011, 13:41
Also the Wood Elves have one in their lore (Wood Elves charge....I know, right?)

Generally, Summon Horde is the res spell you're looking for, as it can be far more efficient than IoN. I usually reserve IoN spam for when I get down to the end of a magic phase and still have 1 or 2 dice left and nothing better to spend them on. It happens relatively often, especially if you have a MotBA vampire in the list. IoN can also be useful if you're running cavalry, as Horde can only bring back 1.

Dreadlordpaul
09-11-2011, 13:48
Okay. I dont know why but I always seem to forget undead horde I am always busy either casting invo or van hells and undead horde always seems to be there forgotten or when I go to cast it I realise I aint got enough dice left to reliably get it off

a18no
09-11-2011, 15:35
Also the Wood Elves have one in their lore (Wood Elves charge....I know, right?)

Generally, Summon Horde is the res spell you're looking for, as it can be far more efficient than IoN. I usually reserve IoN spam for when I get down to the end of a magic phase and still have 1 or 2 dice left and nothing better to spend them on. It happens relatively often, especially if you have a MotBA vampire in the list. IoN can also be useful if you're running cavalry, as Horde can only bring back 1.

For the last dice, I've seen many vanhel try (succed on 3+ on a lvl 4, same result for IoN)

And if you get 2 dices, cast the damage spell that improve in each magic phase.

Lebowski
09-11-2011, 22:51
Lore of Vamps huh? I really enjoy how the lore works now (setting aside IoN). The build a18o was talking about was:
Lord
Dark Aco / Master Black Arts / Magic LvL
Wristbands / Helm of Command / Staff of Damnation
405

My only problem with this build is the spell of 13. (and of course if combat is ever brought to it) Really, only having one gaping weakness is pretty good in my book!

a18no
10-11-2011, 14:42
Lore of Vamps huh? I really enjoy how the lore works now (setting aside IoN). The build a18o was talking about was:
Lord
Dark Aco / Master Black Arts / Magic LvL
Wristbands / Helm of Command / Staff of Damnation
405

My only problem with this build is the spell of 13. (and of course if combat is ever brought to it) Really, only having one gaping weakness is pretty good in my book!

Actually, I think the staff was on another character. Maybe the wight king or a little necro...

Lebowski
11-11-2011, 00:18
Well that is even better! More points towards defense/scrolls/Black Peridapt.

and it would have to be on a wizard, so lets say it was on the necro.

Arijharn
11-11-2011, 03:55
I can think of a guaranteed way of inflicting 10 wounds automatically with a Vampire Lord on anything equal or less than T5, but it requires a bit of a set up in order to do so:

Vampire Lord + Dread Lance + Potion of Foolhardiness + Crown of the Damned

Red Fury + Dread Knight + something else up to 25 pts worth.

This setup will give good results by itself; but if it's coupled with a Loremaster (Fire) Vampire you can do the auto-wound part of it courtesy of this section in the Errata:

Warhammer Rulebook Errata v1.5
Q: Does a To Wound roll of a 1 always fail to Wound? {p42, 51}
A: No. Though it is very rare for a model to be able to Wound on a 1+.


As long as you declare you're using your Potion of Foolhardiness (and therefore pass your Stupidity test) beforehand, on the turn you charge you'll be doing 5 S7 hits that wound automatically due to a successful casting of Flaming Sword of Rhuin. If your opponent is unable to save vs S7 hits, then due to the properties of Red Fury, you'll automatically inflict another 5.

Couple this with Vanhel's to really hurt people. I've seen Blood Knights crush enemy hordes on Frontal charges alone.

Dreadlordpaul
11-11-2011, 08:35
I may have to try that set up just because that sounds so evil. just the thought of crushing a chosenstar with 9 blood knights and that lord makes me cackle with glee

Arijharn
12-11-2011, 01:59
It is very evil. Honestly though the unit of Blood Knights in which he excels in is a massive price dump and therefore likely to attract a lot of attention. I like giving the unit the Royal Standard of Strigos (when you throw that many dice that auto wound with Flaming Sword of Rhuin and I get re-rolls due to Hatred, how can I not?) and if I have the points to spend, a Vampire with Blood Drinker or a Vampire BSB (Flag of Blood Keep or even the Drakenhof banner) for the added survivability.

Dreadlordpaul
12-11-2011, 07:29
That is extremely mean and they say that the chosen star is the worst unit out there. I think once again Vampire Counts can prove that we have better units than chaos do

Arijharn
12-11-2011, 11:00
While that Blood Knight regiment is pretty hardcore (and will rip things up) it probably costs 3 times as much as the Deathstar any way.

I'm not sure how effective it would be against them to be honest, sure you'll auto-wound (and with a lot of attacks) and all that; but passing a 3++ ward save is good odds (66% actually), so even then I think it will go against you, especially after the first round of combat (albeit you'd still have at least 3+ to wounds due to S5 vs T4, 2+ if you get Flaming Sword of Rhuin again, but I think your opponent would have learnt his lesson the first time).

Arijharn
12-11-2011, 11:04
Sort of. Don't forget the Anvil.

I thought one of the Screaming Bell results let them make an out-of-order charge too?

Dreadlordpaul
12-11-2011, 13:15
Can the Screaming bell be targeted by say a vampire lord while its in a unit by magic for example I cast winds of undeath so would the winds of undeath spell also pick out the grey seer and the bell or would the storm vermin just take the hit

Lebowski
12-11-2011, 17:41
Dreadlance=Not worth it

well it was cool when you could continue using it in combat, but the 8th ruled that is only good for charges. after that you whip out a hand weapon. (no joke... look it up)

Paladin21
13-11-2011, 00:40
I'd argue that you keep using the lance. Because of the "I'm Using This One" rule that applies to magic weapons, you can't use a hand weapon even if you want to.

Lebowski
13-11-2011, 01:04
ehh. I don't think you can use a weapon differently than described under its profile. magic weapon or no, lances cannot be used in further turns of combat aside from the first.

don't get me wrong, I would prefer it if you were right on this one.

Arijharn
13-11-2011, 06:43
I'd say you couldn't use it after the first turn, but it doesn't really matter with the above setup, you've inflicted 10 automatic wounds at S7. If you had the army size imagine that when buffed by the +3 Attack Beast spell or even Birona's Timewarp.

It's important to note once again that this is just the Vampire Lord, you've still got your unit (maybe set up with the Royal Standard of Strigos) and even if you didn't get your Flaming Sword of Rhuin off onto the unit, it's still a lot of wounding attacks.

So 'Dreadlance=Not Worth It' in the context of the above Lord set up is I think pretty rubbish.

Lebowski
13-11-2011, 09:05
starters.... it would only be 8 wounds. Lords only have 4 attacks, RF would double it (unless i missed something!), but you are correct, that is a load...

I just think its personal preference. In context of what else you can give your lord, my belief is that there are better options. (blood drinker/3 attack sword)

why would you flaming sword bloodies on a charge S7? (the only round strigos matters) Am i missing something else? Had no idea that VC players used lore of fire. (thought it was pretty much the worst lore in the book)

Voltaire
13-11-2011, 11:40
My personal preference for a Vampire Lord is one that doesn't stand as big a chance of getting swallowed by the realm of Chaos and leaving me with crumble tests across my army.

My old build was:
Vampire Lord(lvl 3)
Blood Drinker, Flayed Hauberk, 4+ Ward Crown
Red Fury, Infinite Hatred, +1CR power (Sorry names escape me and not got the book to hand).

Rolling this lord in a unit of 24 Grave Guard with a Warbanner, HW+S usually means that by the time a combat is over, I am still at more or less static 7CR and add the Vampire Lords wounds caused on top of that. The unit was expensive but in all honesty, I never lost the unit in any game I played with it because there is nothing that I didn't think I could honestly beat in protracted combats. Buffing the unit with IoN to bring the GG back and the occasion nice cast like Wind of Undeath. Couple this with a WK BSB and a couple of Necromancers on Corpse Carts for support along with a Varghulf and the Coach and you can do almost anything.

This all being said, my builds were seen as 'weird' by other VC players. I could not for the life of me build hero level vampires I was happy with.

So...my advice is really do whatever makes you happy with the list, you'll eventually find something you enjoy doing, if that's the 'Wiiiiiseeeee from your Gwaaavveee' style then go for it!

Arijharn
14-11-2011, 08:48
starters.... it would only be 8 wounds. Lords only have 4 attacks, RF would double it (unless i missed something!), but you are correct, that is a load...

I just think its personal preference. In context of what else you can give your lord, my belief is that there are better options. (blood drinker/3 attack sword)

why would you flaming sword bloodies on a charge S7? (the only round strigos matters) Am i missing something else? Had no idea that VC players used lore of fire. (thought it was pretty much the worst lore in the book)

Most of your confusion would be solved if you read the bottom of page 1 where I stated the set up.

But in short; the Errata in regards to wound rolls makes it possible to have 1+ wound rolls (which you can get with Forbidden Lore - Fire) and you would have 4 attacks base as a Vampire Lord; but providing you pass a Stupidity check (due to Crown of the Damned) you can use a Potion of Foolhardiness, which in addition to causing the drinker to be immune to psychology grants Devastating Charge.

GotrekFan
14-11-2011, 12:11
I run 3 vamps in 2500 Pts. The lord is lv 3 with lore master metal for good buffs with 4++ save, night shroud to ensure he strikes 1st, +1 s sword, other tricksters shard and a red fury for at least 4 wounds a turn. He's in GWpn gguard *25 with banner of barrows & bsb vamp that has GWpn, +1 res and 4+ shooting ward banner-used to take regen but there's lots of fire in our group so it used to get cancelled too easy. Finally I have a lv2 vamp with ed share helm in skeleton bodyguard to further increase combat potential.
So far this combo throws a lot of damage and takes a lot of punishment in game.

Lebowski
15-11-2011, 00:43
right. I got that. so you would take FL just to avoid missing one 1s? (thats what makes no sense unless your dice suck pretty hard) ;)

Arijharn
15-11-2011, 06:31
right. I got that. so you would take FL just to avoid missing one 1s? (thats what makes no sense unless your dice suck pretty hard) ;)

It can :'( :P

But Fire Lore can be good in other ways too; Fulminating Flame cage for one, Cascading Fire-Cloak for another. Lets not forget the attribute bonus too for all the attack spells.

But think of it like this though; a Blood Knight unit is hitting on 3's against most things, and you have your Hatred banner as well (in the example above), so that plus your VL with the Dreadlance set up means you're inflicting a massive amount of wounds (automatically). I guess it's more of me just 'hedging' my bets more than anything else.

But... I wouldn't necessarily use the setup I listed above all the time, the tooled up VL and BK doom squad is very pricey (as in, you're looking at 3k+ games with the VLBK Doom squad + The FL Vampire at least).

-

I've also had another twisted idea for a (melee) Vampire Lord, but I have no idea how truly effective it would be (someone test it and get back to me!, I'm unable for the forseeable future :'(:
VL (205) + Fencer's Blades (35) + Glittering Scales (25) + Crown of the Damned (35) + Potion of Foolhardiness (5) + Zombie Dragon (275)!
Red Fury(50) + Infinite Hatred(25) + something else up to 25pts (I prefer Walking Death)

All things under WS5 (or things that fail their Fear Test) will be hitting the VL on 5's, the Glittering Scales makes it 6 and then the Zombie Dragon makes it a 7, which according to RAW at least (the 7+ to hit is listed in the shooting section, and specifically (and only) mentions shooting attacks) makes the Vampire Lord impossible to hit in melee by those units.

This of course makes the Dragon itself the achilles heel, but I guess that's unavoidable.

Lebowski
15-11-2011, 06:52
I use the ole paintrain in 2200+. I got tired early on of GG and wanted something a bit more interesting.

The dragon idea is funny. quite the wrecking ball (saves?). Just wait until the new book comes out for that one though. They have to be improving or cutting the cost of our dragon.

Rather than LOFire I usually have a vamp with shadow sitting back. he helms the squad and will throw mindrazor after first attack (if needed). I would much rather have a failsafe over something that improves an already ridiculously easy roll for a turn.

Arijharn
15-11-2011, 08:52
Saves are the problem, you have a 4++ save in the form of the ward from the Crown of course, but other than that you have a 5+ armour save. The high chance of people missing you is the effective 'armour' save or ward save.

Zombie Dragon is the weak link, but thankfully we can (attempt) to cast IoN at least.

I don't think Shadow helps us nearly as much as it does other races though. Mindrazor gives no benefit (GW GG will be hitting at S6 or hitting at Ld6... where's the benefit?) Wight Kings rock with it (turning into S9) but you can't use the WK's Ld for the unit's attack etc.

The funny thing about the Flaming Sword is that it also effects the BK horses, (and so to does the Hatred banner: 'all models in the unit Hate all enemies'). They hit most things on 4's, but their To Wound requirement drops down to 3 against other T4 targets but more awesomely, becomes merely 2+ against those mere mortals (T3) that the game is balanced around.

N1AK
17-11-2011, 12:28
I think Shadow has potential even for VC. Mindrazor still has uses:
1/ Corpse Carts become 2D6 S7 attacks + D6 S7 stomps
2/ Ghouls become S5 (useful against higher armour oppositions, virtually as good as S8+ vs many troops)
3/ Grave Guard with HW&S can have decent armour 3+/3++
4/ Both Black Knights & Blood Knights benefit from the higher strength when not charging
5/ All characters benefit

The other spells are still great Mystifying Miasma is awesome, Pit is the perfect counter to many opponents, Withering is great, Steed has lots of uses. Even the other two aren't complete wastes. Finally, the Lore attribute itself is awesome.

Personally I still really rate the Vampire Lore if I'm taking a casty lord. Beasts is a great Lore for a Forbidden Lore hero.

Mid'ean
17-11-2011, 14:00
It can :'( :P
All things under WS5 (or things that fail their Fear Test) will be hitting the VL on 5's, the Glittering Scales makes it 6 and then the Zombie Dragon makes it a 7, which according to RAW at least (the 7+ to hit is listed in the shooting section, and specifically (and only) mentions shooting attacks) makes the Vampire Lord impossible to hit in melee by those units.


Actually a natural 6 will still hit. But on side not there is always the Frost blade Lord. Not as useful against regular infantry but against muti-wound models he can kill an average of 9-12 ogres, trolls, any MI......:evilgrin: And he can still have a good armor save with dreadknight and in a unit with the Drak banner. And hell forbid you get savage beast off on him....He could kill off a horde of MI all by himself.....

Dreadlordpaul
17-11-2011, 14:28
I just dont like shadow I prefere outright destruction like death or the im going to ruin your plan by having another movement phase vampire lore. I played a game against wood elves yesterday and thanks to dance macabre and having flaming sword and the fire cloak on my skeletons they was able to kill a treeman :D

Arijharn
18-11-2011, 04:30
Actually a natural 6 will still hit. But on side not there is always the Frost blade Lord. Not as useful against regular infantry but against muti-wound models he can kill an average of 9-12 ogres, trolls, any MI......:evilgrin: And he can still have a good armor save with dreadknight and in a unit with the Drak banner. And hell forbid you get savage beast off on him....He could kill off a horde of MI all by himself.....

I see where you're coming from, but -tohit isn't the same as just rolling and comparing WS etc, because otherwise the Banner of the Barrows would confer no benefit (i.e., if you can get 2+ to hit, then why can't you take negatives to be beyond the range of the D6 to roll?), so I'm not sure.

About the Frostblade lord though; I have a bit of an unease whenever I see a magic item that takes up the entire allowance. It just seems to be too much of a one trick pony in a way, and on the oft chance something survives he's going to be quite vulnerable.

Also; good to see someone else trying Lore of Fire out ;) It's really an underrated lore imo.

Mid'ean
18-11-2011, 12:26
I see where you're coming from, but -tohit isn't the same as just rolling and comparing WS etc, because otherwise the Banner of the Barrows would confer no benefit (i.e., if you can get 2+ to hit, then why can't you take negatives to be beyond the range of the D6 to roll?), so I'm not sure.


The banner of barrows will take your best case to hit of a 3+ to a 2+. Or help negate a negative modifier should you get one.

Pg 50 "Sometimes modifiers apply to these rolls but a natural dice score of 6 always hits and a natural 1 always misses."

If you can find a rule countering this I would be happy to see it.

Dreadlordpaul
18-11-2011, 13:58
Yeah everyone under rates fire and while it isnt my favourite lore it is a funny one :D

rodmillard
18-11-2011, 16:39
I'm liking heavens on my caster vamp at the moment. It's another underrated lore, but it has decent long range damage potential and there are some nasty combos that you can pull off with a fear causing army (especially since the signiture spell affects both to-hit rolls and leadership...)

Askari
18-11-2011, 18:47
I'm using a hybrid Lord at the moment. Seems to work really well actually.

Vampire Lord
w/ Flayed Hauberk, Crown of the Damned, Sword of Strife
w/ Red Fury, Master of the Black Arts, Level 3 Wizard

6 I7 S5 attacks and still a reasonably potent caster? Sweet!

But wait!
add in the following guys;
Vampire w/ Forbidden Lore Beasts
Necromancer w/ Vanhel's Danse Macabre

And it quickly becomes 9 ASF I7 S8 attacks! With re-rolls to hit, 2+ to wound, and Red Fury you can easily kill 15 RnF a turn, or a whole unit of Chaos Knights, or dent even an Ogre unit.
The Lord is still a wizard with 3 Lore of the Vampires spells, +3 to cast and +2PD a turn.

Lebowski
18-11-2011, 21:52
I think we are making this waaayyy to difficult. heavens is underrated, doesn't mean its as good as the other options. Fire... I cant believe I have to say this. Just because you can beat wood elves doesn't make it a worthwhile lore. The spells, setting aside Flaming Sword are at best sub par. Heck. There are better boosts in better lores to use (see metal).
Fire is cool, but like the special kid that would follow you around at school. I only spend time with it when i feel bad for it.

Arijharn
18-11-2011, 22:46
The banner of barrows will take your best case to hit of a 3+ to a 2+. Or help negate a negative modifier should you get one.

Pg 50 "Sometimes modifiers apply to these rolls but a natural dice score of 6 always hits and a natural 1 always misses."

If you can find a rule countering this I would be happy to see it.

I stand corrected then, serves me right for not actually reading the entirety of the rulebook.

The setup is still powerful, but maybe just a little too OTT? The enemy still has something like a 16% chance to hit at least.

Arijharn
18-11-2011, 22:51
I think we are making this waaayyy to difficult. heavens is underrated, doesn't mean its as good as the other options. Fire... I cant believe I have to say this. Just because you can beat wood elves doesn't make it a worthwhile lore. The spells, setting aside Flaming Sword are at best sub par. Heck. There are better boosts in better lores to use (see metal).
Fire is cool, but like the special kid that would follow you around at school. I only spend time with it when i feel bad for it.

I don't know why you feel the need to attack the position that fire can be quite useful. Fireball itself can be tailored quite well due to the 3 different versions of it. Cascading Fire-Cloak can be useful etc but most schools can be useful in certain circumstances and crap in others.

No one has, to my knowledge at least, stated that Fire is the best lore in the game (I personally dig Light).

Sarael
19-11-2011, 05:29
Casty vamp lord: Forbidden Lore, Summon Ghouls or Lord of the Dead (depending on the flavor of your core), then either Master of the Black Arts, or Avatar of Death & Dark Acolyte. MBA gives more dice, AD & DA gives protection and higher casting rolls on each spell. For magic items you want to take everything with a bound spell, sprinkle them around your Lord and Necromancers. Take a Black Coach and keep it away from your casters but in your opponent's face to eat his dice (it's also your heavy hitter). Corpse Carts give you additional bound spells, as well as some additional optional bonuses. Since most of your power is focused on keeping the core alive, and ghouls have the best chance of hurting hard targets, ghouls are the best option for core, however, if your general goes down you auto-lose with ghouls since you have no standards. The traditional ghoul bunker is necessary, just use your lord to keep your combat ghoul units "alive" so they keep enemy units off the bunker. Balancing out your points spent on ghouls/carts/characters is the art of playing this style in 8th, and depends a lot on playstyle so you'll have to find that on your own. Keep in mind, this style is weaker in 8th than 7th, weaker than a fighty style, and requires you to outthink your opponent more often.

Arijharn
19-11-2011, 06:35
Black Coach isn't dependent upon the 6" radius anymore iirc, it absorbs all power dice from the entirety of the battlefield friend or foe.

Dreadlordpaul
19-11-2011, 07:09
The lord I have decided I am just going to run is this
Vampire Lord
+magic level
Dark acolyte
Supernatural horror
hatred
Avatar of death
Enchanted shield
Tomb Blade
Crown of the damned
Black Periapt
Hes a level 4 caster who uses vampire magic and hes backed up by a level 2 hybrid and 2 necromancers :D