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Gemini Dragon
20-03-2005, 14:23
do you use the US of the unit with the highest one,
or do you add US of all your unit ???
(1 total to the left, 1 to the right, 1 to the back)

Sylass
20-03-2005, 14:53
To cancel rank bonus you need a single unit with US5 or higher charging the flank or rear of a unit.

You can't add up US of different units to reach that (eg: 2 great eagles with US3 each charging a unit's flank wouldn't work).

Lord xian
21-03-2005, 00:49
so you'd normally use the highest US of all flanking units.

Gemini Dragon
21-03-2005, 09:53
that means that 5 tomb scorpio can not cancel the rank bonus,
but 5 handgunners can ?!?!?!
that's ...mean

Lordmonkey
21-03-2005, 16:45
Also, don't forget that skirmishers may not cancel rank bonus, although they do contribute +1 for flanking if they are US5 or more

anarchistica
25-03-2005, 09:20
that means that 5 tomb scorpio can not cancel the rank bonus,
but 5 handgunners can ?!?!?!
that's ...mean
You think that is messed up?

5 Halflings (ws2,s2,t2 - puniest thing out there) can cancel the rank bonus.
500 Chaos Chariots can't cancel the rank bonus.
However, if you put an extra guy on one of those chariots, they suddenly can cancel the rank bonus.

It's called "GW logic". ;)

Major Defense
01-04-2005, 19:13
You think that is messed up?

5 Halflings (ws2,s2,t2 - puniest thing out there) can cancel the rank bonus.
500 Chaos Chariots can't cancel the rank bonus.
However, if you put an extra guy on one of those chariots, they suddenly can cancel the rank bonus.

It's called "GW logic". ;)

From my understanding a character does not add unit strength to a chariot. If I am wrong then please point out the rules clarification that says so.

Crazy Harborc
01-04-2005, 23:58
To my knowledge, a unit that is joined by a character will have it's US increased by the US of the character. A chariot is a unit. When a character joins/rides in/on a chariot......why isn't the US raised by the addition of the character's US as with other units characters can join. WE have always added a characters US to a unit he join's total US.

anarchistica
02-04-2005, 00:02
From my understanding a character does not add unit strength to a chariot. If I am wrong then please point out the rules clarification that says so.
Read the Base Size & Unit Strength chart (http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/assets/base-chart.pdf). Also, it might be somewhere in the rulebook but i can't find it at the moment so perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

Major Defense
02-04-2005, 13:49
Read the Base Size & Unit Strength chart (http://uk.games-workshop.com/warhammer/base-chart/assets/base-chart.pdf). Also, it might be somewhere in the rulebook but i can't find it at the moment so perhaps that's just wishful thinking.

me = floored

Wow, thanks! That changes a few strategies for me.

Arnizipal
05-04-2005, 00:52
You think that is messed up?

5 Halflings (ws2,s2,t2 - puniest thing out there) can cancel the rank bonus.
500 Chaos Chariots can't cancel the rank bonus.
However, if you put an extra guy on one of those chariots, they suddenly can cancel the rank bonus.

It's called "GW logic". ;)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if two chariots hit a unit in the flank don't they add up their US to negate ranks?

e.g.
Two Orc Boar chariots hit a unit of Elven Spearmen in the flank. Each chariot has a US of 4, not enough to negate ranks. But because both chariots hit the same flank they can add up their US. Together they have US 8, denying the Elven unit its rank bonus.

anarchistica
05-04-2005, 02:03
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if two chariots hit a unit in the flank don't they add up their US to negate ranks?

e.g.
Two Orc Boar chariots hit a unit of Elven Spearmen in the flank. Each chariot has a US of 4, not enough to negate ranks. But because both chariots hit the same flank they can add up their US. Together they have US 8, denying the Elven unit its rank bonus.
That's wrong, you don't add up the US of all flanking units, you need one single unit with US5+, which is of course hilariously stupid. Funny examples?

You have 2 characters on a monster mount (US 3+1 each). If you team them up in one unit, they will cancel rank bonuses. If you don't, they don't cancel rank bonuses.

You have an Ogre Bull, a Maneater and an Irongut. They can't form up in a single unit, so they can't cancel rank bonuses despite each having US3.

Two dead hard Chaos Chariots flanking a unit won't remove their rank bonus, but 2 TK Light Chariots formed up in a unit will.

We made a houserule. ;)

Gemini Dragon
06-04-2005, 12:55
You have 2 characters on a monster mount (US 3+1 each). If you team them up in one unit, they will cancel rank bonuses. If you don't, they don't cancel rank bonuses.


I thought characters could not join other characters ???

Major Defense
06-04-2005, 13:30
nevermind................

anarchistica
06-04-2005, 15:47
I thought characters could not join other characters ???
They can.

@ VB: WTF, it's 10 characters minimum now? Bloody forum system...

Major Defense
06-04-2005, 16:37
They can.

Not to be a jerk or anything...but is there any wording on this? If there is none then we can easily assume that two characters can join each other to form a unit - but I'm guessing it is an issue because some wording somewhere raises the question. Is there a clarification in a Q&A anywhere that nails it?

Festus
06-04-2005, 16:49
Hi

A character in itself is a unit, as is a chariot, a monster, etc.
Chariots and Flyers are forbidden from joining, characters are not.

Greetings
Festus

Gemini Dragon
06-04-2005, 20:48
crap
Once again, I mixed WHFB with WH40K

St1
07-04-2005, 01:47
It's called "GW logic". ;)

Its called ballance.

PelsBoble
07-04-2005, 08:08
But can those to chars that have joined together take a table quarter?

Atrahasis
07-04-2005, 08:25
You have 2 characters on a monster mount (US 3+1 each). If you team them up in one unit, they will cancel rank bonuses. If you don't, they don't cancel rank bonuses.Characters can only join each other if on foot or a cavalry mount.


But can those to chars that have joined together take a table quarter?

Yes, if they could join. Any non-fleeing unit with US5 or more can do so.

Who can join who was clarified in the Annual (read "changed stealthily") : characters are free to join any unit, with the exception of chariots, units of fliers, and characters on monstrous mounts.

anarchistica
07-04-2005, 13:36
Its called ballance.
Yes, because 5 Hobbits being able to cancel a rank bonus and 5 Chaos Chariots not being able to do so is balanced. :rolleyes:


Characters can only join each other if on foot or a cavalry mount.
What's your source? According to Chronicles 2004 and as far as i know, they can. Characters on non-flying monster mounts can join units, after all...

Tezzmaniak
07-04-2005, 15:16
Jep that makes a chariot with a character a lot more interesting.

Atrahasis
08-04-2005, 10:01
What's your source? According to Chronicles 2004 and as far as i know, they can. Characters on non-flying monster mounts can join units, after all...

Q. Can two characters join each other, thus forming a unit? What if
they are mounted on chariots or monsters?

A. Characters may form a unit with each other, only if they are on
foot or a cavalry mount. Characters mounted on larger creatures and
chariots may not form units at all. Remember also that characters
on a flying monster may not join a unit of flyers, as described in the
rules for flyers.

Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 112

Gemini Dragon
08-04-2005, 11:45
Q. Can two characters join each other, thus forming a unit? What if
they are mounted on chariots or monsters?

A. Characters may form a unit with each other, only if they are on
foot or a cavalry mount. Characters mounted on larger creatures and
chariots may not form units at all. ...
Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 112

does that mean a character on chariot can not join a character
or he can not join any unit at all ???

Atrahasis
08-04-2005, 11:58
does that mean a character on chariot can not join a character
or he can not join any unit at all ???

Unless you're from Khemri, if you're on a chariot you can't join anything at all.

St1
08-04-2005, 13:44
Yes, because 5 Hobbits being able to cancel a rank bonus and 5 Chaos Chariots not being able to do so is balanced. :rolleyes:


if units were allowed to add there US for flank bonus, fast units would get a BIG bonus. in order to get flank charges you need to monuver strgetically and the additional speed of chairiots helps out with that. on top of that chariots allready get a bouns in the form of impact hits. take this for example.

20 empire swordsmen full command (165)
2 gobo wolf chariots extra crew w/ spears (134)

gobos get the flank charge with both chairiots becouse of there speed. they will kill on adverage (using math not dice) 8 swordsmen. the combat would end with the swordsmen having a combat resolution of 5 (3 ranks, standard, outnumber) and the gobos would have 8. that is a very good punch for 135 points. now if the gobos could add there unit strength together the swordsmen would have a CR of 2 (standard, outnumber) and the gobos would have a CR of 9. that is way to good for 134 points.

In the end it all comes down to what is fair and what is fun. it is definitally no fun to be wiped out by something so small.

Gemini Dragon
08-04-2005, 13:54
Unless you're from Khemri, if you're on a chariot you can't join anything at all.

actually, in the TK book, where they "clarify" chariot rules, it is written a character on chariot can join a unit of chariots;

do a chariot alone is a unit of chariots ???

Major Defense
08-04-2005, 14:04
do a chariot alone is a unit of chariots ???

An adventurer is you!

www.kingdomofloathing.com

anarchistica
08-04-2005, 14:21
Q. Can two characters join each other, thus forming a unit? What if
they are mounted on chariots or monsters?

A. Characters may form a unit with each other, only if they are on
foot or a cavalry mount. Characters mounted on larger creatures and
chariots may not form units at all. Remember also that characters
on a flying monster may not join a unit of flyers, as described in the
rules for flyers.

Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 112
You have the UK Chronicles? I think i have the US Chronicles and it doesn't say that anywhere on page 112 (or 111, 113, etc). In fact, it says characters can join units regardless of their mounts and the only exceptions are characters on chariots.

And a Chariot alone is a unit of 1 Chariot. Only Light Chariots can form up in units, and only Light Chariots can be joined by characters in chariots.

Atrahasis
08-04-2005, 14:34
You have the UK Chronicles? I think i have the US Chronicles and it doesn't say that anywhere on page 112 (or 111, 113, etc). In fact, it says characters can join units regardless of their mounts and the only exceptions are characters on chariots.

I actually got the above from the Direwolf FAQ as I don't have any books with me at present. Its the first question in the Q&A pages under the title "Units" though.

anarchistica
08-04-2005, 18:53
Heh, it was the first entry of the Q&A, i didn't see it. Kudos to GW for saying one thing on the first page, than contradict it on the next, i bet they hired some Levitites to write it.

And "cavalry mount"? Is that defined anywhere? :p

St1
08-04-2005, 19:22
a mount with only W-1, and on a 25 by 50 mm base. eg. horse, cold one, ...

anarchistica
08-04-2005, 21:25
Yes, but i don't think that's actually specifically stated anywhere. :p

Atrahasis
09-04-2005, 06:35
Yes, but i don't think that's actually specifically stated anywhere. :p

Once again GW fail to use their own terminology. "Steed" is defined as a mount with only one wound, and that's what they mean when they say "cavalry mount".

Gemini Dragon
09-04-2005, 17:45
And a Chariot alone is a unit of 1 Chariot. Only Light Chariots can form up in units,



???
these two sentences look ...conflicting

couild you rephrase ???


and only Light Chariots can be joined by characters in chariots.

I will agree with that as soon my former question is anwered

Atrahasis
09-04-2005, 18:10
"Unit" is a cover-all term for anything that moves as a single entity.

A lone character is a unit.
A monster on its own is a unit.
A chariot alone is a unit.
A regiment of troops is a unit.
A War machine and its crew is a unit.

As soon as a character joins a unit (which can be anything not specifically prohibited), he becomes part of that unit.

A unit is any number of models which are joined together.

Hence a single chariot is a unit, and 2 or more (Tomb King) chariots joined together is a unit.

anarchistica
09-04-2005, 19:59
Once again GW fail to use their own terminology. "Steed" is defined as a mount with only one wound, and that's what they mean when they say "cavalry mount".
That's only your interpretation. :p

Seriously, i can't wait for 7th, i'm sure they'll define stuff like that like they did for 40K.

Festus
10-04-2005, 08:37
Hi

Isn't cavalry defined as troops that are mounted on mounts with just one W (p.40), thus a Cavalry Mount is a mount with one W, called steed in some places?

IS *Steed* defined somewhere?

Greetings
Festus

anarchistica
10-04-2005, 14:16
Well it says "cavalry is models mounted on a 1W creature", but it doesn't define those as cavalry mounts. I don't think steeds are defined either. :D

Festus
10-04-2005, 19:56
Well well, sometimes you are simply pushing it, mate ;)

Greetings
Festus

Atrahasis
12-04-2005, 13:26
Well it says "cavalry is models mounted on a 1W creature", but it doesn't define those as cavalry mounts.

Surely if cavalry is anything mounted on a one wound creature, then any one wound mount is a cavalry mount.


I don't think steeds are defined either. :D

"A steed is any ridden creature which has only one Wound" - BRB, pp278

anarchistica
12-04-2005, 13:38
Ah the glossary, i tried to forget. :p

You gotta admit that GW are extremely sloppy. I'm tempted to blame the suits, i'm fairly sure they just see the rules as a funny add-on to the minis.