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View Full Version : Poll: Bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?



lowmanjason
16-11-2011, 16:53
This poll is for Necron players. As I have stated before(on Dakka), I would like to have my Pariahs back in some official capacity. Some how my other thread got hi-jacked and got turned into a "just use them as..." thread. So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

As a Necron player, would you like GamesWorkshop to bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?

Azulthar
16-11-2011, 17:19
Sure. I always liked units that mess with their opponent and/or impose leadership penalties, so I wouldn't mind having them back.

I think the new Necron list is the first list where I find myself skipping Elite choices entirely from time to time, so there's definitely room for them there.

Edit: Sorry for ignoring your OP and commenting anyways, though I think it's very on-topic :p

Spiney Norman
16-11-2011, 17:26
Do you mean "does the necron codex have room for another Elite S5, T5 infantry squad with a 3+ sv and a warscythe", I'd have to say "what is the point".

This is really another incarnation of "woe is me they re-wrote my beloved 3rd Ed fluff" right? Its really time to change the record on that one.

Too similar to lychguard and essentially the same thing, would I be opposed to them being called "Pariahs" instead of "Lychguard" in a later codex? No, but seriously we are quibbling over names people. Could they have given Lychguard some kind of anti-psyker ability, yeah sure, but I'd dare suggest we wouldn't have gotten the gloom prism option for our spyders if they had.

Bookwrak
16-11-2011, 18:42
No. There's no point. Paraiahs, for various reasons, were not a good fit in the third edition codex, and likewise would not have much of a place in fifth without some major overhauls, which is really what gave us lychguard today. They have no role to fill if you add them back, and would not have much of a point in the army. You want more gauss blasters? Just like in the last codex, that's already covered. Warscythe platform? That's new to this codex, but there're options for that too. In fact, if you're like me and have a full unit of Pariahs already, the other things you can use them as is one of the most appealing parts of the codex. (Yes, I'm deliberately ignoring you. I spare little regard for people who include the commandment, 'if you don't agree with me, shut up' in their op.) As much fun as I had that one time a tank shocked pariah stood his ground and split a rushing land raider right down the middle, they were a terrible unit that imposed irritating handicaps on a list, and don't have anything to offer the codex today.

Surgency
16-11-2011, 18:58
Weren't pariahs considered practically useless in the 3rd codex because they weren't necrons, and lowered the amount of bodies for phase out? Why do people want them back now?

Damien 1427
16-11-2011, 19:09
The role has been filled by Lychguard. I'm doubting they'd add anything to proceedings that isn't already covered by them. Sure, having the effects of a Gloom Prism would be interesting, or otherwise having an upgrade that reduces enemy Leadership, but I'm not going to lose sleep either way.

loveless
16-11-2011, 19:14
Weren't pariahs considered practically useless in the 3rd codex because they weren't necrons, and lowered the amount of bodies for phase out? Why do people want them back now?

Because taking them wouldn't hamstring the army, I suppose.

I actually assume it's more of a background thing for most people - they wanted their anti-psyker unit in the background if nothing else.

Honestly, though - they're Lychguard in all meaningful form. They lost their psychic interference (which went to the Spyders) but gained Reanimation Protocols and weapon options. I guess they lost the Gauss Blaster or whatever it was, too...which was always kind of weird to begin with...

I voted "No" to being a unit. I'd be fine with them coming back into the storyline, though - I'd actually probably encourage that.

massey
16-11-2011, 19:33
They're kind of interesting, but the 3rd ed Necron codex made an attempt at having some leadership affecting wargear and strategies. They didn't really work very well, but it made the attempt. Pariahs were part of that. Now that they don't have that aspect to their rules as much, Pariahs don't really fit that well.

Denny
16-11-2011, 20:10
A mention in the fluff would be nice, but I don't like them on the tabletop.

druchii
16-11-2011, 21:13
This poll is for Necron players. As I have stated before(on Dakka), I would like to have my Pariahs back in some official capacity. Some how my other thread got hi-jacked and got turned into a "just use them as..." thread. So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

As a Necron player, would you like GamesWorkshop to bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?

Just use them as Lychguard.

d

musical
16-11-2011, 21:19
I vote no because I found them dull. I used to have 10 Immortals but didn't bother with Pariahs or Flayed ones (the 3 Elites in the old codex).

Voss
16-11-2011, 21:20
This poll is for Necron players. As I have stated before(on Dakka), I would like to have my Pariahs back in some official capacity. Some how my other thread got hi-jacked and got turned into a "just use them as..." thread. So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

As a Necron player, would you like GamesWorkshop to bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?

No.

And since the point of this place is discussion, you're going to get both comments and opinions.

Pariahs were a poor concept from the get-go, with a ridiculous concept pulled from some black library book. Part of the point of humanity in the 40k is its development as a psychic race and the weaknesses that go along with it, hence the Emperor doing what he can to protect humanity during that development. Anti-psykers pretty much negate all that, as its the perfect protection from many major threats.

So, yeah. Use them as lychguard or lords, but there isn't any reason for GW to bring them back.

Gunless Ganger
16-11-2011, 21:23
You should use them as Lychguard. I think that would look really nice.

Drakcore Bloodtear
16-11-2011, 21:31
I just want an easy way to buy the models :(

Dwane Diblie
16-11-2011, 21:35
I think they should be sold as Necron Lords. Create a few extra arms for them and repack them and there you go.

(Also, dosn't one of the Special Characters upgrade a unit to Pariahs?)

Minsc
16-11-2011, 22:09
So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

Yes, because you decide the rules on this forum? :rolleyes:
(You know what a forum is right? And I'm speaking in the modern sense, not about those in ancient greece.)

stroller
16-11-2011, 22:51
Why would you want to bring them back?

It's a rhetorical question: No comments, or other opinions ...

Axeman1n
17-11-2011, 00:33
I want a unit that does what they did. The Warscythe got changed, and so did the Gauss Blasters. I want the original ones back. The leadership bubble was just a bonus IMO.

Notanoob
17-11-2011, 00:53
Well, having a nice anti-psycher upgrade outside of Tomb Spyders wouldn't be bad, especially on a sup-par melee unit like Lychguard. Having that whole aura of despair style thing would make the unit a lot more relevant.

Wyrmwood
17-11-2011, 00:59
Why would failing to have a mention in the current Codex invalidate them from a background stand point? It wouldn't. Besides, I'm pretty sure they're mentioned in Planetstrike and Hellforged.

decker_cky
17-11-2011, 01:56
They would've been a nice idea as an upgrade for Necron lords to give them the spyders' psychic protection ability and maybe a slightly stronger ability (within 6": psykers Ld7 + negate psychic powers targeting friendly units on a 4+ for 30 pts or something). Or maybe even make that a cheaper unit-wide upgrade for lychguard.

There were easy ways to include them...it's a pity they didn't.

Yes from me.

Axeman1n
17-11-2011, 02:13
From a background fluff perspective, Pariahs would need to be immune to Psychic ablities too, like the Null Rod.

TheCaptain
17-11-2011, 02:20
No. Necrons have just gotten a new book, and you already want another unit put in it? Even if it was in the old book, they probably arent in the new book because GW thought that they either didnt work in the army, or didnt belong. Its not as if pariahs are a useless model now, use them as something else. Simple as.

Bonzai
17-11-2011, 03:04
I voted yes.

The reason? I liked that Necrons were the bane of Psykers. I liked that they were to opposite end of the spectrum from Chaos. They were order and sterilization of the impure and random in the galaxy. It added to their mysique. Gloom prison is ok, but severly limited due to it's 3 inch range. I mean come on, 2 psychic hoods can practially cover a table.

What I would have liked to see is them added as an option for the royal court, with their custom warscythes, leadership de-buff, and gloom prisim like affects for the whole unit it joins.

Fluff wise they can go several ways. I would lean towards them being elite Lychguard body guards that protected the Overlords/phaeron from the psychic attacks of the Old Ones and Eldar during the war in heaven, and remain highly prized after the long sleep.

I agree with those that say that they did not fit well in the old codex. They certainly had issues. Many of those would have been cured in the new codex. No more phase out, they could be teleported, and there are transports that they could have used now. Throw those things in there, and I imagine the old pariahs would be taken in most new lists, and people would have called them the ultimate cheese unit with their assault 2 weapons, anti-leadership and psychic defense, and ignoring inv saves. Can you imagine the nerd rage if they had been introduced in this codex? :p

insectum7
17-11-2011, 03:42
Yes.

Honestly, for all the talk about the C'tan background and the heavier Egyptian look to the models and the dropping of basic Warrior stats, the lack of Pariahs is probably my biggest dissapointment with the Codex (which I actually think is pretty good). I just liked the idea of them a lot, and the whole "pariah gene" aspect of their connection to humanity was one of the more intriguing parts of the Necron fiction, it's a shame it ain't there anymore.

And they were an awesome unit in Dawn Of War. :)

Cheeslord
17-11-2011, 08:28
If Pariahs returned now, they would be worshipped as gods by the Necrons due to their incredible reflexes and dexterity - as fast as the dreaded Humans!

I don't like models being arbitrarily removed, and necrons suffer massively now from low I, and their psychic defence isn't great. You know what they could do with... a melee elite that wasn't gimped massively by I2 and had some kind of psychic defence.

Also fluff-wise Pariahs represented some sort of hope for the future for the Necrons, however dark and twisted it might be ... at least they were going forward and adapting to the new galaxy rather than clinging to outdated ideas, refusiing change and ultimately dooming themselves (rather like a David Eddings GeneriBadGuyRace)

Mark.

Adra
17-11-2011, 08:43
There anti psychic stuff was fine i guess, but that could just be a squad upgrade for Lychguard, so i dont really see the point.

I say no. Lychguard fill their major role and look better doing it.

Plus I didnt see any of these oldschool necrons players, who are now lamenting the loss of Paraiahs, using them anyway. You guys didnt give two hoots about them before but all of a sudden your all sad about their loss. No one cared then and i think this is just a gateway to moaning.

Commandojimbob
17-11-2011, 08:54
I said No - I hardly ever used them and they were not very well fleshed out. Think of them as a trial run that when the C'tan were in charge granted funding for "Project Pariah", but now that the Overlords have taken back power and assessed the deficit in the Necron budget, decided that the Lychguard do a similar roll, and killed off the "Project Pariah" - after 38,000 years, the Euro zone contagion had spread right across the galaxy.

xxRavenxx
17-11-2011, 09:00
Its not that the lychguard are *similar* its that the lychguard ARE the pariah's entry in the codex...

Its the same as how the Scarab swarms, Necron Wraiths and Tomb Spyders were all horribly torn from the book to never be seen again... yet oddly replaced with extremely similar units in the same FoC slot with Nigh identical stats...

Spiney Norman
17-11-2011, 10:00
Why would failing to have a mention in the current Codex invalidate them from a background stand point? It wouldn't. Besides, I'm pretty sure they're mentioned in Planetstrike and Hellforged.

It depends where your approaching from, if you're determined to slam the new book at every turn then quite obviously if something is not specifically mentioned or at least alluded to in the new codex it has obviously been retconned out of existance (see the majority of comments on the enslaver plague). Those of us who aren't that bothered and in fact quite enjoy the new fluff accept that there might be events related to the Necrons that have happened in 40Ks galactic history that is not specifically recorded in the codex.

However in terms of fluff the Pariahs no longer fit particularly well into the Necron story. Actually they didn't in 3rd edition either, but that doesn't seem to bother the dedicated core of haters of the new codex. The pariahs were explicitly billed as the "next phase of Necron evolution", which is something of a joke for a race that has spent the last 60 million years in stasis and has just began waking up.

I can just see the scene in the Overlord's boardroom
"*yawn* 60 million years is a hell of a long time, jeez we have a lot of catching up to do, ideas for the next phase of our evolution anyone???"

Vipoid
17-11-2011, 11:48
I have to say, I liked the Pariah models, but they really were dire from a gameplay perspective. They didn't count towards phase out, they couldn't get back up, they couldn't benefit from things like VoD, monolith portal etc., and they were CC units with WS4, I3 and 1 attack. Also, their fluff wasn't particularly good - the next stage of evolution didn't make a whole lot of sense. It probably would have been better if they'd been some sort of offshoot of c'tan experiments, or maybe a 'rogue' C'tan's idea of what the necrons should be. Possibly even an idea for the final stage of the adeptus mechanicus...

Anyway, I think I'd like to see aspects of the Pariah models return, but not really the Pariahs themselves. It would certainly be nice to have their anti-psyker powers on one of our units.

Also, one thing I really wish we'd been allowed to keep - guns in our warscythes. Lychguard can't shoot at all (with or without warscythes). And how do our Lords/Overlords supplement the 24" shoting of their squads? A 12" range gun or a flamer. Wheee...

Graeme
17-11-2011, 13:54
I voted no. I bought a unit of 5 way back when the old codex came out and never found any use for them.

On the upside, one of them has now had his old scythe replaced by a new one from the lychguard box and serves as my Vargard Obyron.

lowmanjason
17-11-2011, 17:20
I can deffinitly support having a lord upgrade with Pariah traits. That was acually done at a campaine at a local GW here right around Medusa 5 and I gotta tell you, it worked out really good!

Eldartank
17-11-2011, 17:34
This poll is for Necron players. As I have stated before(on Dakka), I would like to have my Pariahs back in some official capacity. Some how my other thread got hi-jacked and got turned into a "just use them as..." thread. So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

As a Necron player, would you like GamesWorkshop to bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?

I'm not going to answer with either a "YES" or a "NO." But I will most certainly make a comment and give my opinion. I like the Pariah models themselves, although I never did get a chance to play them under the old Necron Codex, because I still hadn't finished my army yet. I will definitely be using them as Lychguard. In my not-so-humble opinion, the Pariah models make excellent Lychguard, and I think the Lychguard are just this new edition's versions of Pariahs, anyway.

So.... JUST USE THEM AS LYCHGUARD! ;)

Scaryscarymushroom
17-11-2011, 18:55
This poll is for Necron players. As I have stated before(on Dakka), I would like to have my Pariahs back in some official capacity. Some how my other thread got hi-jacked and got turned into a "just use them as..." thread. So here it is. It's a poll. The choices are "YES" or "NO". No comments, or other opinions , or "use them as Lychguard" garbage. Just answere the question with the availilable options.

As a Necron player, would you like GamesWorkshop to bring Pariahs back an a playable unit?

I think it would be excellent to see pariahs again. That being said, a rose by any other name is just as sweet. I don't think your models are unofficial, because they were made by GW. I don't want to turn this thread into a "just use them as..." thread, so I'll drop it there.

Imagine all those tyranid players back in 2nd edition with genestealer patriarchs. Those models are things to envy, not useless hunks of lead. If a player showed up for a game with the patriarch, magus, and genestealer hybrid models at a GW store, I doubt he'd be turned away because his models were unofficial.

Notanoob
18-11-2011, 03:49
However in terms of fluff the Pariahs no longer fit particularly well into the Necron story. Actually they didn't in 3rd edition either, but that doesn't seem to bother the dedicated core of haters of the new codex. The pariahs were explicitly billed as the "next phase of Necron evolution", which is something of a joke for a race that has spent the last 60 million years in stasis and has just began waking up.

I can just see the scene in the Overlord's boardroom
"*yawn* 60 million years is a hell of a long time, jeez we have a lot of catching up to do, ideas for the next phase of our evolution anyone???"
I thought their whole evolution thing was obvious. C'tan hate the warp. Humans were developing into a race of psychers, and supposedly would all become psychers at some point. Anyways, to advance their crusade against the warp, the C'tan plant the Pariah gene so that in the future they can convert some new guys into soldiers that can attack their opponent not in mere physical ways like using Gauss flayers, but specifically hurt them just by standing around. They were Necrons+1 when you considered fighting anything with a soul or connection to the warp. Admittedly, this wouldn't at all fit with the new fluff, but it isn't like they couldn't have come up with something.

In game that translated to hurting a psycher's ability to use their powers, lower a daemon's Ld for Instability tests, ignore their invulnerable saves in CC, shoot the crap out of them if they don't get close, and generally own. Considering this, they actually fit their fluff purpose pretty well.

Unfortunately, they were one word removed from being on the same level as the rest of the units in the codex (I hesitate to say good because that really wouldn't be true, especially now). They were expensive and only WS4 I3 A1, but what made them exceptionally bad, or really worse than the rest of the book was the fact that they weren't Necrons. While T5 Sv 3+ is great, it doesn't justify their Terminator-like cost, so WBB would have given them essentially a 2+ save, and not counting towards Phase Out (the biggest culprit behind the book's inability to compete in 5th) made them a huge point sink with too little durability or mobility. Put the 'Necron' rule under their list of special rules and they suddenly become a much better option, capable of VoD/Monolith-porting right into the thick of things, cutting stuff up and getting back up even when they've been hit real hard. Remove phase out and give the whole army a 15% point cost break (except for Monoliths, who are worth more now that they don't hurt the army considering phase out) and Necrons would almost look competitive.