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Ironclad82
18-11-2011, 02:47
Man, people will whine about every army the one beating theirs and then they'll whine about theirs if it's too popular or not popular enough.

Please help me pick an Army. Pretend that I have a lot of money to devote to models. I'll let the tactics fit the Army, I can do either stand off or CC, mob or elites with equal affection.

I love watching Nids but I couldn't play them. I hate Vanilla Marines. I'll skip the DE too. Beyond that I am all over the map.

Just pick a faction for me and I'll build the Army. I just don't want to hear the groaning from 'that guy' when I walk into the next game store.

dashzed
18-11-2011, 03:04
Pick a faction for you other than the ones you stated? Okay then, how about either Orks or Tau? Both are mid level codexes, nobody will complain about power level. Both are fun to play, people pretty much always enjoy playing against either army. Also with Orks you get a lot of different options as to what build you prefer.

Vaktathi
18-11-2011, 04:23
They can all be whined about in some way if someone wants to, especially any 5E book. Pick the army you like the visuals and fluff of most. The biggest thing you can do to avoid being whined about is just not take all the best stuff in the book as many times as you can. Granted, that has its own implications...

Scaryscarymushroom
18-11-2011, 04:30
It is my cynical belief that anyone will complain about anything.

Here's a possible solution: Don't be competitive. You'll never hear any moaning from 'that guy' ever, I promise. Don't use any synergy when you build your list. Don't think about what you're doing. Just pick the models you like the look of and go easy on your opponents.

P.S.

I've always been partial to Sisters of Battle myself, especially if money is no option. While they do get complained about on warseer, it's because their brand new codex is pretty flimsy. There's hardly anything in it worth taking, from a rules perspective.

P.P.S

Why couldn't you play 'nids? If you like watching them, maybe you should think harder about whether or not they would be a good fit for you. If it's a matter of winning or losing, well... like I said earlier. Don't be competitive and people shouldn't complain.

theDarkGeneral
18-11-2011, 05:06
Just play either Chaos Space Marines (without the Lash of Submission) or Chaos Daemons!

Sazabi
18-11-2011, 05:28
Well...if money is no object, then the Defenders of Vraks chaos renegades would be solid. I suspect few people will rag on your slightly hampered Imperial Gaurd army list. Not to say they are weak, and they have a very excellent look. Even accounting for the scary Ogryns and vanilla chaos marines, the list hardly screams top-tier murders, and with the right selections they really have a good theme.

Ironclad82
18-11-2011, 05:42
Oh I wish I could do Defenders of Vraks, something Alpha Legion or Lost and the Damned. I don't care if it was horribly non competitive (like it used to be).

rocdocta
18-11-2011, 05:52
It is my cynical belief that anyone will complain about anything.

Here's a possible solution: Don't be competitive. You'll never hear any moaning from 'that guy' ever, I promise. Don't use any synergy when you build your list. Don't think about what you're doing. Just pick the models you like the look of and go easy on your opponents.

P.S.

I've always been partial to Sisters of Battle myself, especially if money is no option. While they do get complained about on warseer, it's because their brand new codex is pretty flimsy. There's hardly anything in it worth taking, from a rules perspective.

P.P.S

Why couldn't you play 'nids? If you like watching them, maybe you should think harder about whether or not they would be a good fit for you. If it's a matter of winning or losing, well... like I said earlier. Don't be competitive and people shouldn't complain.

i hate people saying that. sorry just joking around :D

Souleater
18-11-2011, 07:14
Armies of mine people have whined about over the last year:

Dark Eldar
Oldcrons
Tyranids.


So...no...I don't think there is.

Sazabi
18-11-2011, 07:31
Oh I wish I could do Defenders of Vraks, something Alpha Legion or Lost and the Damned. I don't care if it was horribly non competitive (like it used to be).

Well, to be fair, AL and LATD used to be very competitive, with whole armies of infiltrating marines, and hidden powerfists(!) in leaping mutant squads. Current Chaos dex, with Alpha Legion would be decent without being that cheesy (though using that dex without the cult troops is even more boring, amazingly:cries:). Alternativly, while you have ruled out DE, what about Craftworld eldar, with some theme in mind? Iyanden or Saim-hain would be diffrent, and should hardly be met with cries of cheese.

AndrewGPaul
18-11-2011, 07:50
Just pick the army you like, then look around your local area for gamers who aren't whinging idiots. Some people will complain about anything; Grey Knights are too good, Blood Angels are too popular, Dark Eldar and Necrons are too new and the fluff has changed, Tyranids are too bad, ... build a no-holds-barred competetive army and they'll complain it's cheesey and unfluffy, build an army based n the mdels you like and well-supported by the background and they'll moan that it's a walkover and you're not trying hard enough to win.

Fear Itself
18-11-2011, 08:02
People are going to complain no matter what army you finally decide to play. Knowing that, I'd pick an army that appeals to you in either play-style or aesthetics.

Trying to be a unique snowflake will turn out badly, I assure you. ;)

AlphariusOmegon20
18-11-2011, 08:20
What army won't your opponent whine about?

That's an easy one. 'Nids.

Nobody whines about 'Nids, even if the 'Nid player is winning.

Thanatos_elNyx
18-11-2011, 08:22
Nids! You must be joking they are SOOOOOOOoooooooo broken, damned bone swords or whatever they are called. :p

AlphariusOmegon20
18-11-2011, 08:53
Nids! You must be joking they are SOOOOOOOoooooooo broken, damned bone swords or whatever they are called. :p

I take it you don't have a 'Nid army....

Trust me, they can win, but waaaaaaay far from being broken. They're actually a bit underwhelming a lot of the time. :(

≡I≡ Brother-Captain ≡I≡
18-11-2011, 09:04
I think he was being sarcastic. you know. To whine when you said no one would.

Play anything and make sure to always lose violently. Short of that, someone will always whine about something.

Dhurrin
18-11-2011, 09:19
Go for a fluffy list. Not many people will complain then. Some will of course. Pick a backstory for your army and then fit your models to that. Maybe you want an all Crises Suit Tau, or all Berserker CSM. If you make it fluffy there will usually be as many cons to the pros of the army.

Corvus Corone
18-11-2011, 09:26
So, your criteria for serious investment of time and money in an army is 'something that won't make other people whine'?

I'd have a think about what you actually want from an army itself rather than let something like this decide it for you. You're going to be spending a lot of time building and painting this army before you even take into account the playing; if you can't get into the background or tabletop presence of the army, it's unlikely to be worth it (no matter how un-whiney others might be).

You can make any army less likely to incite whine-rage; just don't max out on power units or go for a dominant build.

If you really, really can't decide (somehow), I'd say go vanilla marines. They're flexible, fun to play (yes, FUN) and will never lack support from GW so the models are great in range and quality and your codex will never be that much of an antique. You can even choose from one of the existing chapters or come up with one of your own (maybe the 'Ebony Appeasers' or the 'Unprovoking Angels' =) ).

Tayrod
18-11-2011, 09:34
What about Grey Knights? Since everyone else is playing them too, the balance will be perfect, and noone will moan!

orkmiester
18-11-2011, 10:09
People are going to complain no matter what army you finally decide to play. Knowing that, I'd pick an army that appeals to you in either play-style or aesthetics.

Trying to be a unique snowflake will turn out badly, I assure you. ;)

indeed, the whiners (no offence intended:angel:) are usually the ones who don't want to change when you play against them- we are all having an amusing time trying to bust a guard army with 3 vendettas in, hilarity is never far away...


What about Grey Knights? Since everyone else is playing them too, the balance will be perfect, and noone will moan!

i hope you are being sarcastic here:shifty: for the anecdote of the year- i can profess to be the only GK player at my gaming club currently, yes you read right and i'll take a bow at the following :wtf::eek::cheese:

just as everyone says- pick an army you like the look of, my GK's are in no way designed to be competitive, i just liked the idea of a stormraven based strike force.

in fact i haven't been moaned at, i just tend to be sporting and appologise when an opponents prize unit goes bang:evilgrin:. If anyone dared to moan about DE i would happily point them to the nearest copy of the GK codex and say 'you want to moan about DE well read that then...';)

chromedog
18-11-2011, 10:11
Codex: PanFo or codex: fishmen.

Everything else is either whined about because it got weakened in its current iteration - or got more powerful.

enygma7
18-11-2011, 10:48
The collective noun for a group of wargamers is a whine. Nothing you can collect will stop people whining. Someone whined at me the other day about how broken tau marker lights are.

However, avoiding grey knights, space wolves, guard and blood angels will trim down the worst of it. Then look at the army list forums on the internet and DON'T build an army like any of the ones you see in there. Don't spam non-troop unit entries. Believe it or not you can still make a pretty competetive list using these criteria if you know what you're doing.

For bonus browny points, take a look at your local gaming group and see what armies are under represented and people would like to see more of. Is everyone playing a marine varient? Pick a xenos race. Everyone playing mechanised? Look at some of the armies that work OK without masses of transports (like nids, necrons and footslogger orks).

Hopefully that should give you some ideas.

Juggernaut101
18-11-2011, 10:53
Just go for the army whose esthetics you like and don't be a WAAC gamer.:shifty:

Juggernaut

Major_Manny
18-11-2011, 13:10
Use any of the FW imperial guard armies, that way you can still play a good game, without hampering yourself, and people dont moan so much when they get to face shiney FW.

Ironclad82
19-11-2011, 02:47
What about a Thousand Sons Chaos Army, 36ish Marines? What else goes into a Thousand Sons Canon army?

xalfej
19-11-2011, 05:23
Take foot slogging eldar

Lead by an autarch with power weapon / banshee mask leading his footslogging banshees.

And a farseer with eldritch storm as his power and a full 10 warlocks with no powers.

A nice heavy weapons battery of vibro cannons and a bunch of guardians to fill out the list.

Get to work~ :)

~xalfej

Garven Dreis
19-11-2011, 11:44
Oh I wish I could do Defenders of Vraks, something Alpha Legion or Lost and the Damned. I don't care if it was horribly non competitive (like it used to be).

Hell yes, I'd love to see more Vraks players

fluffymcfluff
19-11-2011, 12:00
Thats why there is a complaint box in heaven, so the whiners can be happy too.

Play a mono-god themed daemon army, wins are hard to come by and every game is a blast.

LonelyPath
19-11-2011, 20:35
Play Dark Angels, the only people that moan about them are many other DA players that are wanting a new codex, lol!

Ironclad82
19-11-2011, 20:41
Hell yes, I'd love to see more Vraks players

Vraks are not legal in a tournament game, right? If they are I'll be all over them, if not I think I might go with 1K Sons.

Axel
19-11-2011, 21:49
Just avoid Grey Knights. They are the current bandwaggon and cornocupia of unloved tricks and abilities.

Orks are iconic, have half a dozen playable (and largely different) armybuilds and are imho the most fun to play with.

Eldar are the tacticians and painters dream.

Tau for the challenge

Guard for the guns & tanks (though they DO have some pretty unpopular builds).

Personally I have Orks, Sororitas and Guard, with Orks being played most often.

AndrewGPaul
20-11-2011, 00:10
Vraks are not legal in a tournament game, right?

As with everything else, it depends on the tournament. Anyway, you can always arrange matters so you can use them as a normal Imperial Guard army or a Siege army as and when required.

Lazarian
20-11-2011, 13:54
I think the most important point is that if you keep finding your armies being complained about then its something your doing. Every current 40k army in the right situation can be abusive against lesser experienced opponents, even lower viewed ones like Tyranids or Tau.

You have to take it down a notch. Anything from 'forgetting' rules to playing a few points shorter. If your winning horribly then your on a different difficulty setting. We have a guy in our group who wins brutally with various armies and has never gotten this concept, never realizing no matter what he plays unless hes willing to invest mental capital in the happiness of his opponent then its going to end usually with a disappointed eyeroll or worse each match.

Its not hard to 'throw' a match of 40k or two, or to put yourself in an egregiously bad situation in games where you get hamstrung.

massey
20-11-2011, 14:01
You don't want someone to whine? The only way to do that is to lose every game, badly. Even that might not work because people will whine that they didn't kill you fast enough, or their special character failed a save.

This is a game written for 14 year old boys that is played competitively by 45 year old men. It should be no surprise that some of those players will show zero maturity whatsoever.

Arhalius
20-11-2011, 14:09
TBH most people will find something to whine about in every army, unless you play something fairly weak on purpose.
At the moment the biggest offender among my group is still Grey Knights with some refusing to play certain builds. People whine about Wolves, Newcrons and IG alot too.

My list also makes people whine with Vulkan and a load of flamer/meltas and armour but i dont think its as bad as some out there.

owen matthew
20-11-2011, 16:50
indeed, the whiners (no offence intended:angel:) are usually the ones who don't want to change when you play against them


This is one of the truest things I have come to understand after playing table top games over 15 years. It is true accross all systems as well.

The other is that most people do not want to lose, and will feel poorly if they do, and will whine about anything to not look like a sore loser- in the end looking like a sore loser.

Play what you like, the next truest thing in this thread is that people will whine about any army you play. That is a characteristic of the person you are playing, not the army you are using.

Brother Captain Lucian
20-11-2011, 16:58
The day i see a person whine over my Death Korps army... ill slap them silly :>

enygma7
20-11-2011, 22:37
Some people are blaming whining only on abusive armies, others only on unsporting players. Fact is either or both can be true.

If you field an army above the accepted power level norm of your society people will whine. These should be listened too and accomodated if you wish to be a welcome part of your local gaming community.

If you don't field an overpowered list then some people will still whine regardless. These should be politely ignored, and if its bad enough, just don't play them.

Your job is to sort out which type of whine is which :)

Ironclad82
21-11-2011, 03:33
What does an IG aremy look like that people won't hate? I can see myself losing a lot with those squishy little guys and noy carrying.

Demoulius
21-11-2011, 19:23
Not having read all the replies before me...

NONE WILL BE SPARED!!! MWAHAHAHAHA

If people wont find anything to whine about...they will whine about that :D

totgeboren
21-11-2011, 19:45
Play a fluffy/themed list, and paint it well. The only real whining I hear is when people make armies that spam 'the best' units and don't pay any attention to the background.

Other than that, go orks. Everyone loves playing orks, unless you make a Nob Biker army that maximises wound allocation abuse.

Inquisitor_Eljer
22-11-2011, 01:03
Please help me pick an Army. Pretend that I have a lot of money to devote to models. I'll let the tactics fit the Army, I can do either stand off or CC, mob or elites with equal affection.

Just pick a faction for me and I'll build the Army. I just don't want to hear the groaning from 'that guy' when I walk into the next game store.

Sisters of Battle - with the new WD codex. Expensive and harder to play.

Dhurrin
22-11-2011, 03:34
Some people are blaming whining only on abusive armies, others only on unsporting players. Fact is either or both can be true.

If you field an army above the accepted power level norm of your society people will whine. These should be listened too and accomodated if you wish to be a welcome part of your local gaming community.

If you don't field an overpowered list then some people will still whine regardless. These should be politely ignored, and if its bad enough, just don't play them.

Your job is to sort out which type of whine is which :)

Very true. As long as you don't use overpowered lists and actually play a "fun" game then any whines have nothing to do with your army.

Ironclad82
23-11-2011, 02:18
Are 120 Orc boys fun to play against?

Pyriel
23-11-2011, 05:28
imho yes, they are. the orks codex in general is a mid-tier codex. imho the safest bet to avoid whining is to get a "tier 3" codex army:

tier 1: imperial guard, space wolves, grey knights
tier 2: blood angels, dark eldar, necrons(new)
tier 3: dark angels*, black templars*, space marines, tau*, eldar, tyranids, orks, chaos marines, sisters of battle(new)
tier 4: daemons

* these armies have specific kinda-cheesy stuff that, while they dont make for a broken list, they certainly make *strong* lists and are often whined about. these are:
-dark angels using terminators as troops and doublewing list. very uncommon marine build will leave non-competitive fluffy players wondering/whining.
-black templars using any variety of sword brethren terminators, especialy if they use more than one unit. if you thought vanilla marines' thunderbubble was tough, wait to see that.
-tau using mass-crisis suit spam with no fancy toys, and kroot as main troops choice to have pts for even MORE battlesuits.

again, these lists are not overpowered, but they are one-dimensional and "comparatively" powerful, leading "fluffy" players to whine about them. any other tier-3 codex, or these tier-3 codexes without said lists, and ppl wont whine.

Memnos
23-11-2011, 07:05
Just to put in a point about Pyriel's 'Tiers':

http://www.baldandscreaming.com/news/2011-ard-boyz-preliminaries-nationwide-results/

This is the 'ard boyz preliminaries for 2011. Make of it what you will. These are pre-Necron and Sisters codex, though.


imho yes, they are. the orks codex in general is a mid-tier codex. imho the safest bet to avoid whining is to get a "tier 3" codex army:

tier 1: imperial guard, space wolves, grey knights
tier 2: blood angels, dark eldar, necrons(new)
tier 3: dark angels*, black templars*, space marines, tau*, eldar, tyranids, orks, chaos marines
tier 4: daemons

* these armies have specific kinda-cheesy stuff that, while they dont make for a broken list, they certainly make *strong* lists and are often whined about. these are:
-dark angels using terminators as troops and doublewing list. very uncommon marine build will leave non-competitive fluffy players wondering/whining.
-black templars using any variety of sword brethren terminators, especialy if they use more than one unit. if you thought vanilla marines' thunderbubble was tough, wait to see that.
-tau using mass-crisis suit spam with no fancy toys, and kroot as main troops choice to have pts for even MORE battlesuits.

again, these lists are not overpowered, but they are one-dimensional and "comparatively" powerful, leading "fluffy" players to whine about them. any other tier-3 codex, or these tier-3 codexes without said lists, and ppl wont whine.

Pyriel
23-11-2011, 07:33
my assessment agrees, for the most part, with the results.the armies i put in top tiers did well, the other two...didnt.

the only difference is with armies that tend to do better victorypoints-wise compared to normal missions often played, and the poster in your link also states that(for example, he mentions orks faring better than normal in that regard). i would also like to stress that there is a divergence in that much more ppl played blood angels than,say, space wolves.lots more played orks than black templars. etc. *win percentages* show space wolves and IG clearly being more powerful than many armies imho.


all in all, however, like i said, the armies i included in the first two tiers(tier 1:broken OR very favoured by 5th edition meta, tier 2: top tier, tier 3: mid/low tier, tier 4: doesnt work at all realy, like daemons and oldcrons) did very well in these rankings you linked. avoid them, stick to a tier-3 army, and no fluffy/non-competitive player will whine.

RejectedNeophyte
23-11-2011, 07:49
Tell you what. If you want to let somebody else decide how you play the game, let them. If you want to play an army that is totally going to annihilate an opponent do it(if that makes you happy) If you want to play a list that is completely fluffy or has a cool theme to it, do it(All 6 of my armies do the latter)
The most important thing about this game, is to make you happy and get your fulfillment. If other people don't want you to be happy then let them cry. The biggest challenge every commander must face, is changing his tactics to fight new enemies. A commander who fails at this, fails his men and they die. simple as that.