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jma037
18-04-2006, 01:22
My friend has a Ogre Kingdom army and we just had an idea to play it against a 40K army. The Ogre can be a newly recovered human planet with Abuhumans.

Do you think it's possible game wise?
How should I go about mixing and matching the WHFB rules and 40K rules?

Any ideas, suggestions, comments will be greatly appriciated.

Cheers!

Toppan
18-04-2006, 01:56
i totally thought of this...id think of them as maybe ogryn rules just balanced...or maybe orks with higher S and T...lower BS and WS

C. Langana
18-04-2006, 02:01
It's difficult to really find a 40k analogue to Ogres on an army level. You could just use an IG army with very few normal humans, or perhaps an Inquisitior for your HQ, just lump all of those funky retinue upgrades onto the ogre in question.

jma037
18-04-2006, 02:18
You miss understood my point. I want to use a WHFB OK army as it is!(?)
Would is be possible to translate WHFB to 40K rules with minimum effort?
This might be a crazy idea, but why not?

CommunistBrother
18-04-2006, 02:25
Using some extreme house rules and by only playing with friends you could. But if it's only friendly games, why not just directly translate everything? I'm thinking magic would be hard but wouldn't it be easy enough to simply convert it into psychic terms?

I'd say do an almost literal translation from Warhammer to 40K, only blending where absolutely necesary(ie. magic). Otherwise, you'd be better off writing a brand new codex for them, pretty much abandoning them in Warhammer terms and only making rules to suit the models rather then their original game terms.

Mantis23
18-04-2006, 02:37
There's also the Abhuman doctrine for IG that allows you to field Feral Ogryn as Troop choices. Not what you wanted, but I thought I'd mention it.

Acolyte
18-04-2006, 02:55
You have to understand that a lot of stats in 40K and Fantasy are relative. Take, for example, a Lasgun and a Short Bow. Both are S3, IIRC. However, the Lasgun is obviously much, much, much more powerful. Against, say, a Knight of Chaos, an arrow would have a helluva time killing it. A lasgun would burn a hole through him and into the dude behind him.

What you should probably do is use the Lost and the Dammed rules instead. Gnoblar packs could become Gibbering Hoardes (I know, Gnoblars aren't swarms, but bear with me), Ogres would become Mutants and Big Mutants and so on.
Alternately, if T4 isn't good enough for you (As I don't know the basic Ogre toughness ATM), you could run Death Guard-they'd be T5, but you'd have to cover them up to make them have 3+ saves.

Chem-Dog
18-04-2006, 03:14
With your friend in the privacy of your own home, it's entirely up to you what you do ;)

Seriously though try it out if it sucks majorly you can tweak it to suit.

There are points values for similar creatures in 40K, both Ogryns and Big Mutants have been mentioned (is it me or is there a LatD theme going on this weekend?), it shouldn't be too hard to work out some kind of comparison.

emperorattack
18-04-2006, 04:01
You miss understood my point. I want to use a WHFB OK army as it is!(?)
Would is be possible to translate WHFB to 40K rules with minimum effort?
This might be a crazy idea, but why not?

I really think that is impossible (you have no guns)

New Cult King
18-04-2006, 05:37
I really think that is impossible (you have no guns)

Excellent point. Besides Leadbelchers and the Scraplauncher OK has no ranged weaponry that I'm aware of. Nearly any 40K army would just mow them down before they reached melee.

Cheatah
18-04-2006, 10:00
And the fact that points cost in WFB and W40k are NOT comparable.

Emperors Teeth
18-04-2006, 10:40
You could always take a step back to 4th Ed fantasy and 2nd Ed 40k, which were a lot more compatible rules-wise. The 40k book had rules for numerous feral weapons and of course... the troop and armour stats could be mixed better.

Chem-Dog
18-04-2006, 11:01
How incongruent are they? Obviously we can't post stats, but it would be ok if somebody made some kind of comparison, stats and points wise.

I don't think not having many guns would be a disability, necessarily, the Ogres (or their 40K counterparts) have a reasonable Toughness, well better than guardsmen anyway, and multiple wounds helping to even out the lack of serious armour.

FoolsJourney
18-04-2006, 11:57
We've been looking at the idea of a 40K vs Fantasy battle for some time. The idea of a 40k force landing on a planet of primitives to colonise it, to be faced with magical powers etc is quite intriguing.

It may have trouble working with ubermarines, but some other more balanced enemies quite well. Sure, the skinks have got no resistance to bolters or lasguns, but then Inquisitor Lorr has no way to dispel the Comet of Cassendora either (but dispel scrolls would work against 40k psychic powers).

Shooty wise, elven bowmen will have minimum effect on armour of any sort- even Orks, but would be cut to ribbons by Fire Warriors. Close combat though? 40k models wouldn't get a rank bonus, impact hits, 1st turn charge priority. standard bonus etc... and most armies would be able to outcharge their 40k equivalents. Also, the 40k troops may be much harder, but the Fantasy heroes and lords will take some beating (especially with their armour AND ward saves).

Only real problem is the turn sequence. 40k models get to move, shoot then assault as opposed to fantasy's move or charge- although with the new 40k rapid fire rules, even that is less of an issue than v3 was.

Sounds like fun though. Go for it!

calicojack
18-04-2006, 12:54
If you use 3rd edition Warhammer Fnatasy Battles and Rogue Trader: Warhammer 40,000, they were in fact built on the same rule-set, and the same points cost. The first edition of Warhammer Siege was built for 3rd edition/Rogue Trader rules, and in fact supplies minor rules tweaks specifically for 40k versus WFB games. My suggestion for a "combined" game? Use Rogue Trader and 3rd.

Alternately, build an Ogre Kingdoms army using the Lost and the Damned rules - Gnoblars as Gibbering Hordes [4 bases to a base]; Big Mutants as Ogres; Scrap Launcher as Defiler; etc.

Erriond
18-04-2006, 13:04
I remember playing a really well run game in my local store about 8 or 9 years ago (during 2nd Ed 40k) with an eldar army trying to save a local population (highelves) from a chaos onslaught. it worked really well with only minor rules tweeking. Its a shame in some ways that 40k and warhammer are so very different now but it is probably better as game play can be geared to where it is most wanted.

When I saw the title of this thread and I got the image of a space faring group of ogryns led by a roge trader who hire out their services (as in war fighting not sexual!) to the highest bidder. I like the idea but there are many other projects in the way first, this doesn't even get into the top 10....

Erriond

Grimtuff
18-04-2006, 13:18
One Gav Thorpe did post some 40k vs. WHFB rules on the Net a while back. Here's what I can remember:

Whoevers turn it is, those are the rules you use (i.e. 40k has no magic phase, WHFB would have no assault phase)

When firing a gun in Fantasy, disregard it's AP, use it to calculate save modifiers. and vice versa for WHFB

IIRC it was

AP 6= -1
AP 5= -2
AP 4= -3

and so on.

When shooting use the 40k system for 40k, and so on.... (this brings up a weird issue as Instant Death does not exist in WHFB, so an Elf can survive a Battle Cannon hit :D )


All I can remember for now. All you have to remember is to use whoevers turn it is, use their rules.

Colonel Jacka
18-04-2006, 14:31
If you use 3rd edition Warhammer Fnatasy Battles and Rogue Trader: Warhammer 40,000, they were in fact built on the same rule-set, and the same points cost. The first edition of Warhammer Siege was built for 3rd edition/Rogue Trader rules, and in fact supplies minor rules tweaks specifically for 40k versus WFB games. My suggestion for a "combined" game? Use Rogue Trader and 3rd.

Alternately, build an Ogre Kingdoms army using the Lost and the Damned rules - Gnoblars as Gibbering Hordes [4 bases to a base]; Big Mutants as Ogres; Scrap Launcher as Defiler; etc.

You are correct! In fact there was a battle report in an early edition WD 130something I think. I would have to go and dig it out. But it is not only posible but a great idea for a game. Just make the Armies relative to the tech gear ie: horde army for the Ogre's and couple of squads for the 40K army.

Ardathair
19-04-2006, 05:12
Going back to RT days, Warhammer Siege had rules (ok guide lines) for mixing Fantacy and 40K armies. The Fantacy force was supposed to get a 25% pts. advantage to off set the increaced fire power of the 40K forces at range.

Using current rules set, you could try using the Feral Ogryns from IG abhuman doctrines as a base, regular Ogryns with Ripperguns for any special weapons and basicly create your own army list to use with your local gaming group.

Chem-Dog
19-04-2006, 05:33
but then Inquisitor Lorr has no way to dispel the Comet of Cassendora either (but dispel scrolls would work against 40k psychic powers).

Scorcery is heresy, it leads to corruption by the warp.

Kaoslord
19-04-2006, 09:21
Inquisitor Lorr may have problems with the Comet of Cassandora, but I'd like to see a Celestial Wizard stand up to a Psyk-Out or Melta Oribital Strike...

Accept the fact that what you're proposing is going to be incredibly weird. Personally, I'd just set the armies up on the table, accept that the stat lines are as they are, and deal with issues as they arise.

Approach with a sense of fun. Good luck, and we expect a Battle Report.

GodofWarTx
19-04-2006, 09:31
yep, gav thorpe did a 3rd edition 40k battle and a 6th edition fantasy game a few years back. The rules i remember are like above.

I think it would be a riot to totally destroy a snobby fantasy player. All you would need is a Librarian w/ a psycic hood, 2 whirlwinds and a vindicator. The rest is up to you for kicks, but 3 Dreadnaughts with heavy flamers would provide gleefull amounts of fun for BBQing fantasy punks over and over.......that is, the infantry blocks that survive repeated whirlwind and vindicator fire.

Von Bek
19-04-2006, 09:39
There's also the Abhuman doctrine for IG that allows you to field Feral Ogryn as Troop choices. Not what you wanted, but I thought I'd mention it.
Does anybody know where this doctrine is? I seem to remember it being a Chapter Approved but I don't remember what issue.

Gorbad Ironclaw
19-04-2006, 10:57
How incongruent are they? Obviously we can't post stats, but it would be ok if somebody made some kind of comparison, stats and points wise.

I don't think not having many guns would be a disability, necessarily, the Ogres (or their 40K counterparts) have a reasonable Toughness, well better than guardsmen anyway, and multiple wounds helping to even out the lack of serious armour.


Considering that ogres suffers against heavy shooting in Warhammer, a 40k army should blow them to bits.

I think you would have more luck transfering a 40k army into Warhammer than the other way around actually, but the point cost isn't going to match up no matter what you do.

Ardathair
20-04-2006, 00:51
Play a few (or several) games using fantacy vs. 40K and play test. Could be fun. Using different fantasy and 40K armies would give you a more balanced perspective of points differances.


Does anybody know where this doctrine is? I seem to remember it being a Chapter Approved but I don't remember what issue.

US WD 302