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Artemis_Quinn
20-03-2005, 15:36
I was just curious why you rarely, if ever, see a fully marauder based Chaos army? I consider them great as far as points cost goes (BTW.... Primarily I am talking about marauder infantry) and they generally are customizable enough with descent weapons options. Is it the cost $$$? Is it the prospect of having to paint up a ton of models? Is it that you don't think that you can win with mostly marauders? Or is it just that the prospect of having 12 really cool looking chaos warriors witha cool mark and a million upgrades is by far more tantilizing (spelling?) than 24 shirtless lightly armored marauders marching down the field screaming their heads off? I was just curious, and thanks for any replies, they are greatly appreciated.

PelsBoble
20-03-2005, 16:21
Well do you have a suggestion to an all marauder armylist? I think it would actually do ok if you included some marauder horsemen and maybe some furies and undivided exalted champs to join the marauder blocks. The main problem imo is that you dont have any real hard hitters and your vulnerable to shooty armies and maybe magic heavy armies also. Unless you throw in some sorcerers for dispel scrolls etc.

Maelstrom
20-03-2005, 23:36
I think marauders just arent the reason people play chaos. If you want a hoard infantry army you play orcs or empire or skaven. If you want hard killy stuff you play chaos.

Artemis_Quinn
21-03-2005, 00:01
I have considered the idea of playing a marauder Tzeentch list myself, and it answers each of your (PelsBoble) problems with the list. Basically here is how it goes as far as composition is concerned.

Heros/Lords- All exalted/Aspiring Champs of Tzeentch. This provides both magic protection and a hard hitting character that I personally would mount-up on a disk. The disk wouyld provide needed mobility so the character could double as a desperate war machine destruction since I do believe they get a 15" move. Another possibility is to have a Deamon Prince with the master of Mortals item. Then who needs a disk? :D

Core- Pretty much the entire make-up of the army is core, all marauders. As for the mising "hammer units" of the army simply equip your many many marauders with great weapons. Then wounding is no problem, and hitting is usually not to be worried about since the weapon skill of a marauder is above average. But if you are a more "I would rather let the units I have survive" type of player then the hand weapon, shield, and light armor combonation is available for the same points cost. As for the horsemen personally I say leave them at home, they have advantages, but the chaos hounds are fluffy and work well in the list also. The only real difference in the horsemen and the hounds is that the horsemen are faster and fast cavalry while the hounds are slower but much cheaper. I would prefer cheaper in this particular list.

Special- Furies are definitely a possibilty. War machine hunting is exactly what this list needs and they almost scream for the job.

Rare- who needs them?

So basically that's my list, tons of marauders with great weapons (I'm not too terribly worried about shooting when my general is close and I have 25 models in the unit, isn't it obvious I'm a skaven player?) Characters all mounted up for mobility, and tons of warhounds to compliment the ranks upon ranks of marauders for both flank charging and protection. And magic should be shut down or at least kept to a minimum by my characters.

I'm not sure it's competitive yet since I haven't seen it in action and I don't plan on making it (costs are waaaaaay up there for hounds). But I think it has serious possibilities.

Just tell me what you think, is it workable?

Artemis_Quinn
21-03-2005, 00:06
I like your point Maelstrom, I've seen people more or less completely forget about the marauders in their list in awe of the mean looking chaos warriors. And I see what you are saying about playing some other army. But is still is odd to me that I haven't seen the "norse list" where someone used all marauders for a celtic theme. But that's just me.

anarchistica
21-03-2005, 01:48
I've played "all-Marauder" a couple of times, though i admit to proxying a bit since i am too sane to paint that all up.

It can work pretty well since Marauders are amazing for their cost and you can use "counts as" to bring in some useful elements while still remaining themed.

The way they seem to work for me is in big blocks (24-29) supported by a character, a rank bonus killer and a hard-hitting unit. This works for all units of course, but works much better with cheap Marauders.

So what should work is a unit of 24 Marauders with hand weapons, light armour and shields. In the unit is some nasty Exalted Champion, who can stand being charged. On the flanks are 10 Marauders with Great Weapons and a (Tuskgor) Chariot. The main unit takes the charge and hold because of the kills by the Champion and the lack of deaths because of WS4 and a 4+ save. The next turn the enemy lose their rank bonus and get D6+1 S5 hits plus a whole bunch of WS4 S5 attacks. Simple as pie.

Marauder Horsemen are useful too in my opinion, since they are Fast Cavalry and are far more powerful in combat than Warhounds (WS4 S3 vs. WS4 S5 + WS3 S3).

Furies eat warmachine crew, Beastmen (Marauder trappers or hunters) clear forests and the doomed champions of the tribe (Spawn) can tie up anything weak and annoying.

Well it works for me, just depends on what army you face really.

Artemis_Quinn
21-03-2005, 02:17
Using your tactics does that mean that you just waited to be charged for the most part? For some reason it doesn't sound like a widely accepted chaos tactic to me. Also, why tuskgor chariots over regular chaos chariots? I haven't gotten much of a chance to look at the new rules for beastmen so I'm sorry if it is something that is well, obvious. Also, What stops your opponent from just charging your great weapon weilding marauders and punching a hole in your battle line that way? I like the tactic but I think there is a little more set-up to it than you expressed in your post. Or maybe I'm just thinking about this too much as I am know to do :D

PelsBoble
21-03-2005, 02:26
Looks good imo. The tuskgors chariots works great i guess and they are only like 85 points. tho if you go with the tzeentch list you prob want the chariots marked to get some pd.

I agree with anarchista on the marauder horsemen. They are way better than hounds imo. I mainly use hounds for screening while the marauders can get alot more "light" jobs. Also with the S5 on he charge(flails) they can do a decent amount of damage for only 81 points (5 riders including musician)


And furies is a must as always ^^

I would seriously not recommend the deamon prince. I used an undivided DP for a while and with only 4 wounds and a 5+ward save he is easily killed and generates 300 Victory points (+100 for magic items+100 for general) So i dropped him pretty fast as an mounted lord, or in your case a lord riding a disc can do the same things with a much btter save.

User Name
21-03-2005, 03:26
There are just too many other fun options in a chaos army to only use marauders, chaos gets 2 books of troops to choose from. I think that is why it is so popular there is so much variety to be ahd that pure marauders is boering in compareson.

Sir Jadon Claymore
21-03-2005, 07:30
I think it is a great idea. I have always wanted to try out an all norse army myself, i think ot would be a fun army to play with.

jmurph
21-03-2005, 08:13
I have played with a friends marauder horde and it was a hell of a lot of fun. While maybe not quite as good a horde as O&G, you have harder characters so *meh*...

Marauder horsemen are excellent for stripping ranks since they can stay a bit away and still threaten. Also good for drawing cavalry into bad positions (dogs are better cheap screens, but tend to be poor for drawing charges because they never rally :)). Bestigor chariots make excellent support for foot and can help split open armor.

Hand weapon shield marauders can absor a surprising amount of abuse. Flails are very good for shock units (just as good as GWs if you can break them in one round). Norse marauders are very cool. (With flails and shields they can soak up alot or dish out some major pain.)

Furies are worth their weight in gold against warmachines and lone casters. But even when their is no shooting, they are great at denying march moves. I LURV the furies.

Ogres (OK or Chaos) can add a bit of support punch with GWs and 6 inch move. Beasts are good screens and interference and could be modelled like rugged hunters, though I really like the beast plastics.

Really, the only reason I use warriors in my current list is 1) Mark of Khorne and 2) the supercool new models that I have spent hours on. Otherwise, bestigors (which I also use...) make better infantry support, as do chariots, ogres, etc.

Slaanesh magic is also incredibly good with these guys. Delusions and Spasm can ruin the enemy (another place marauder cav are great for getting in there!), while being frenzied or unbreakable is great for cheap marauders.

Ethereal Alpaca
21-03-2005, 08:41
There are just too many other fun options in a chaos army to only use marauders, chaos gets 2 books of troops to choose from. I think that is why it is so popular there is so much variety to be ahd that pure marauders is boering in compareson.

It depends on personal tastes. Some people may like the idea of norse/viking-like warriors better than daemons and chaos and such, and a marauder army would be the best for doing this.

Though I've never used them in battle, marauder armies could do well. They have one of the best fast cav units, marauder horsemen, who have a few different types of short ranged shooting weapons to choose from. Spears are good for helping to beat the enemy with a well-timed flank charge, but flails are better. If you really want to go nuts, you can give them a shooting weapon, flails AND shields.

The marauders themselves are pretty good troops. For only 7 points with light armour and shield, you can have a WS4, I4 warrior with a 4+ save in combat. Not too shabby. If you're prepared to give them extra, you can give them flails as well as shields and lt. armour, so they can use the flails to get some kills in the first round and the shields to help them survive in susequent rounds.

The best general for a all-marauder army would be Crom the Conquerer. With him, you can give your marauders the mark of chaos undivided, which would be life-saving at times.

Last time as I was there (a while back), GW Newcastle had a sweet marauder army. General was based on Crom with a bearded marauder head, and they had two chariots manned by marauders and pulled by warhounds.

Artemis_Quinn
22-03-2005, 22:01
I personally think that the warhounds are yet another example of a unit with highly unrealized potential. They may not be as good as the horsemen, but what they lack in quality they make up for ten fold in quantity.

I just made up a marauder list to see the difference sheerly in sources of support rather than the quality of support. I ended up after my two tzeentch characters were created and (5x) 25 man marauder units were added in with 233 points left in a 2000 point list. I tried filling the points with both unit types, horsemen and warhounds.

With the horsemen I armed them with shields flails and gave each unit a musician. I came up with 2 units, one of seven and one of six. Granting me a grand total of 13 models I have to use just right to unlock their full potential. I wasn't impressed.

I then used the same number of points on warhounds. I created six units containing six warhounds each and two of which actually contained seven (totaling at 38 warhaounds). I like this use of the remaining 233 points far better because since I have almost three times the number of warhounds as I would have marauder horsemen they are far more expendable. I won't be distraught over losing a unit of these guys and my opponents will not worry about them as much as they would were I to use the marauder fast cav. As long as one or two of the units makes it into battle and all goes as they are supposed to, then I can make up for the losses of my other warhounds units.

So, personally, maybe it's just me but I prefer to have expendable units I won't be upset over losing. Or maybe it's just the fact that being a skaven player I've gotten far too used to setting up tons and tons of models. Either way, it'll be hard to convince me that 13 power punching maraduders are better than 38 vicious warhounds. :D

anarchistica
22-03-2005, 23:12
Using your tactics does that mean that you just waited to be charged for the most part? For some reason it doesn't sound like a widely accepted chaos tactic to me.
Well it's an infantry heavy army and my regular opponents are WE, Slaaneshi Chaos (2 chariots, mounted daemonettes, knights), Skaven (half-SAD), shooty Empire (2*knights), etc. Aside from the Empire army, they're all faster and more manoeuvrable. Aside from the Chaos army, they all have shooting (alot of it is S3/AP or S4). I'm not waiting to be charged, it's just far more likely and the armour saves tend to help against the shooting.


Also, why tuskgor chariots over regular chaos chariots? I haven't gotten much of a chance to look at the new rules for beastmen so I'm sorry if it is something that is well, obvious.
Tuskgor chariots are cheaper (35 points) and hit almost as hard. Sure, they're more likely to die and Chaos Chariots can often even hold their own in close combat, but that doesn't really matter in my set up. Also, their statline is almost identical to the old Marauder chariots.


Also, What stops your opponent from just charging your great weapon weilding marauders and punching a hole in your battle line that way?
Oh, first of all, my bad, i use them with flails (Nurgle), my Chaos opponent uses the great weapon dudes as "detachments".

To answer your question, it rarely ever happens. If they whipe out the mighty 60 points of Marauder fodder, they break their own battle line and allow me to charge them. They need a turn to turn around, which allows me to set up a combined charge of other units or send more cannon-fodder to distract them.

It's just never been a problem for me, though when dealing with other armies it can hurt i guess.

the_night_reaper
29-03-2005, 03:32
I then used the same number of points on warhounds. I created six units containing six warhounds each and two of which actually contained seven (totaling at 38 warhaounds). I like this use of the remaining 233 points far better because since I have almost three times the number of warhounds as I would have marauder horsemen they are far more expendable. I won't be distraught over losing a unit of these guys and my opponents will not worry about them as much as they would were I to use the marauder fast cav. As long as one or two of the units makes it into battle and all goes as they are supposed to, then I can make up for the losses of my other warhounds units.

umm do you know how much money 38 hounds would cost? it's like $65(can) for ten and that's 4 boxes of 10. therefore thats $260(Can) i personally would be very "distraut" over losing these guys. it's just a personal thing i dont know if you feel the same.

User Name
29-03-2005, 03:56
Thats why you buy goblin wolf riders and use them as warhounds making them like 40 or 45 dollars ca for 10, then you have nice mounted legs to use in your bits box or trade for some other fun and shiney stuff.

Also not that it is relly on topic but its not too difficult to make nurgle centigors out of a dog torsos, a lot of puddy and a zombie or marauder body.

the_night_reaper
29-03-2005, 04:06
hey i nvr thought of using wolf riders. don't they have an indent on their backs where the goblins go or something so it would look weird. That's nothing that some good trusting very expensive green stuff can't fix. 40-45 dollars is also a lot tho if ur buying 4 BOXES.

User Name
29-03-2005, 04:10
nope they just have fur on them, no saddle or anything.

the_night_reaper
29-03-2005, 21:36
cool i've nvr played orcs and goblins b4 and never thought to buy wolf riders instead of dogs.

I would still reccomend horsemen over hounds anyways. hounds are just for really cheap screening and blocking los from ur frenzied guys. With an all marauder army you have nothing to screen. Horsemen have some hitting power and you wouldn't want these guys on ur flank unlike hounds who you can simply swat at and they die. You can also give them ranged weapons.

Not only that but because horsemen are so fast you can use them to get at war machines and lone mages.

Lord Lucifer
06-04-2005, 04:05
The major reason you don't see many marauder-heavy armies could also have something to do with all the skin you have to paint :p

GW skin paints (bronzed flesh, dwarf flesh, elf flesh) are absolutely bleedin' horrid. End of story.


Anyway, glutton of punishment that I am, I'm working on a marauder-heavy-ish army right now... mostly in the Buying And Not Painting stage that will continue until roughly 2 weeks prior to any given tournament...

taer
06-04-2005, 05:12
If you want some hitty marauders on foot, You could also go for the mercenary Norse marauders (Rare, or special if you take the Bearmen. The Bearmen are only good for Beorg himself since the regiment doesn't have two hand weapons, which is what Norse marauders are about, what with their frenzy and all). Also works well if you want a "Khorne" themed Marauder infantry army, or just "Khorne" marauders in a regular Mortal army. You only lose rare, which for chaos isn't really that big a deal.

Neknoh
07-04-2005, 11:56
I see four No-brainers that wuld make a Marauder Army work pretty well (imho)

1. Crom the Conqueror: Need I explain why?
2. Undivided Battle Standard Bearer with the banner of the Gods: Stubborn Marauders, mmm....
3. Marauders: How would you get an all marauder Army without them?
4. Maneaters: they are fairly easy to include in the fluff and provides you with another stubborn unit, but this unit can fight as well.

Of course, there are lots of other stuff that would be good for an all marauder army:

Warhounds
Chariots
Hellcannon
Minos
Chaos Ogres
Chaos Trolls
Centigors
Beastherds
Flayerkin
And a few more.

It can work