View Full Version : 25k Game (12.5k a-side)

Van Horstmann
24-11-2011, 15:02
Not sure this is the ideal place for such a thread but due to the nature of the questions i'm about to ask thought it seemed appropriate.

My friends and i have decided to have a mammoth game before Xmas, teams have been drawn randomly and it's 12,500 (6250 each) of High Elves and Skaven vs 12,500 (6250 each) of WoC and VC.

I was wondering if the Warseer community has any tips/rules to make things run as smooth as possible.

What is the best way to organise the Magic Phase?

Are Objecitves a good idea?

All help greatly appreciated.

Many thanks in advance :)

24-11-2011, 15:13
Make sure you have a gaming-table at least twice the size of a normal battlefield.

Scenarios work just fine in my experience, but for example if you happen to roll up "Blood and Glory" then you may find it almost takes longer setting the game up then it takes playing it.

When it comes to the magic phase, in the group I play in, we have never changed the parameters of the magic phase when playing games like this. I know some people double the power dice available (sort of Storm of Magic style) and that'll of course make the phase itself more dynamic.

Frankly, I think there are usually enough crazy things going on in the magic phase.

Since you're mixing armies on each side you'll also have to decide on which Lord is to be the "overall" General on each side. Will both sides have two BSB's? Can they duplicate magic items between themselves?

All in all, games this size is what really gets me going in Warhammer. So I hope it plays out well for you guys.

24-11-2011, 15:17
Make it a 5000/1250 per player SoM game? And don't forget the Allies rules in the back of the BRB.
That covers:
Lots of monsters
Crazy magic items
Lotsa objectives
Loads of magic dice

Plus it's an official supplement that everyone can get their hands on relatively easily. And it's supported by both Warhammer Forge and White Dwarf.

I'd recommend using the standard SoM scenario over the more specialised ones and moving to eight fulcrums instead of the regular four for such a huge game though. No need to add that much complexity.

As for the best place for this thread; I guess technically it ought to be in General, but then I'd have missed it, and I wouldn't have wanted to do that.

Van Horstmann
24-11-2011, 15:30
Thanks for the input so far Gents,

I'll be rolling out Archaon for the 1st Time (ever) in this game so i think it's safe to assume he will be the "overall" general for the Woc&VC alliance

We've never played Storm of Magic yet so that could be a blast!

We've been thinking to split the board in half (vertically) and roll 2 D6 for the Winds of Magic in each table half in an attempt to randomise it and also have enough dice for everyone to cast freely. Depending on where your Spell Caster is that's the number of Power Dice you have available.

I assume there may be a better alternative though. :)

Thanks again

24-11-2011, 16:19
One thing is for sure, we gotta see a battle report for this one! I'm curious to hear how it works, maybe I'll try to get some friends to do something similar!

I would think either SoM, or, if not, even bump up the magic dice to 4D6 still.

24-11-2011, 17:42
There was a WD battle report of a huge game (ages back - 'A Gathering of Might....?) where the general of each of the allied armies wasn't allowed to discuss tactics with their team-mates, representing the confusion of such a large battle.

At the start of each turn, they each wrote one short note then passed it over, representing messengers.

That looked like fun.

Otherwise, I'd echo the "do Storm of Magic" crowd. This kind of game is really what it's designed for (basically being WFB Apocalypse...)

EDIT: Further ideas...
- Get a referee/GM type person
- Allow more time than you think, and plan a food break!
- If things start to look one-sided, allow reserves to keep it interesting and make all the effort worthwhile
- Don't set up the armies 'separately' - make sure you don't end up with two 1v1 battles that happen to be on the same table
- Have a 'mini-game' off to one side with (a) no magic phase and (b) one unit from each army, that has some kind of effect on the bigger game

25-11-2011, 01:48
The rules for allies in the book is rather good, but you may want both sides to be the same if that sort of thing bothers you (just choose between trusted or desperate).

Magic can be resolved however you want, but be ready to define if a spell that is cast on a certain type of unit (eg. Skaven unit) can also be cast on their allies or not (most likely not, it's easier that way).

Personally, I have it so that generals exist for each army rather than just one for each side as the generals are cooperating (even if they don't like eachother) and his troops answer to him and not their allies. Same goes for battle standards ("So the elves have a pretty flag. So what?"). But, that's... well, see my signature.

My best advice: decide some basic rules adaptations, try the game, and afterwords talk about what worked, what didn't work, and what never had a chance to work. Have fun and kill the other guys.

27-11-2011, 00:52
Interested to here how it goes!

29-11-2011, 02:45
This sounds absolutely amazing. I hope you take plenty of pictures, I'm sure it will be a blast to play!

29-11-2011, 20:50
You need something like General and lieutenant. Cause the LD will be hard to play. Something in the line like: the big general has a LD bubble of 24" instead of 12", and you get one lieutenant for each 2000-3000 pts on the table. You can do same for banner. The lieutenant act as normal general with 12" LD bubble.

I really suggest to play objectives base game. You need to take many objectives in the table. That would creat many little battle but that are all linked with each other.

The storm of Magic could be a really good idea like said before. I would even play 4D6 PD for each player. Or only a 4D6 split evenly, same for dispel dice.

You need to make clear how each turn will be played, with a skaven on one side, i recommend a free for all style. Every player has a numebr assign to him, 1-2-3-4. For the battle you always follow the same order.

Deployement: just that phase can take all the day. Something that exist in the 40k system: each team write on a paper the time they say they can take to deploy all their army (let say 20 minutes). The team with the fastest/lowest result choose their side of the tablle and deploy first everything they have. The other team now got the same time and must deploy as much as they can but will start the game on a roll of 6. Every unit that could not be placed on the table in the time limit are keeped in reserve. You could always let every player play at the same time. That could be fun and any unit that don't have space on the table are in reserve.

MVT: Players 1-2 move at the same time, that can create situation where: "Hey I wanted to go there too, too bad I'm already there!", funny and easy to play. Charge can be done like this: player 1 play all his charge then player 2. Or player 1 declare a charge with one unit, then player 2 declare one, then player 1 again, etc.

Magic: 4D6 for the side, split evenly. Every mage channel for himself not the army. Each could generate his own 2D6 or even 4D6 depend on the scale of the magic you want. For the casting: Player 1 cast 1 spell, player 3 can choose to dispel, if he don't want to then player 4 can choose to dispel. Then player 2 cast his first spell, player 3 then 4 can choose to dispel. Now player 1 cast a second spell, etc. You could even let player 1 play his phase, then the player 2, etc.

Shooting: Both player can shoot with everything starting with player 1. Or you can follow the same step as for magic and charge (player 1 select one unit, shoot then player 2 etc.)

Close combat: I recommend 1 combat choosen by player 1, resolve, then 1 choosen by player 2, resolve, etc. Or the "big general" could be the one who choose the fight, if he's still alive ;)

Something that could be fun: each player got 1 chance in each TURN to say something to it's partner. It could be in the movement phase, shooting or magic, but only 1 time per turn. Something like: "hey kill that guy please, or move that unit there".
You could too only allow the "big general" to give order and not the other player, but that is not always funny for the little one.

Don't forget that if you choose to follow the ally rule in the BRB, the High elf/skaven team are in a real problem. I won't recomend it though.

Hope that help a little.

I've created a game with 4 player a couple of months ago. We played on table, 1VS1. 2 were "underground", like in a cavern and 2 outside. The 2 outside were there to control 4 objectives. Each one give something for his own side (like +1WS, +1PD, etc.) but only in the underground. If for some reason, an objective was destroyed, the undergournd/upperground twins was destroy too (someone was playing skaven). Each objective was worth 500pts, plus the point underground players get. I was very fun !

01-12-2011, 04:14
Also to be honest lots of the time, battles deteriorate into two separate smaller conflicts instead of a 2v2. Best thing to do is to group your phases, which is easy with the magic phase. I also def agree with limiting certain spells (death frenzy on a unit of dragon princes and call to glory on a skeleton warrior come to mind) and making the game SoM (and the vampire player should definitely be casting wind of undeath a lot...!)

02-12-2011, 12:28
A tip when it somes to setting up those huge armies:

One side leaves the tables and the side remaining place paper pieces to indicate the placement of their units (place some blank notes as well) . The other side then returns and places their units (just a few models is enough at first, so that both sides can start placing their units as soon as possible).
As soon as the placement for all units are settled, the paper team can reveal their notes and both sides can start fully placing their units.

Also if you have the resources, scale up the battlefield the same amount as you scale up the points total. E.g, 2000-3000p = One 6'x4' battlefield, 12000p = Four to Six of e'm. This is essential if you want to have some manoeuvrability at all and just not a walk-strait-into-the-meatgrinder-battle. I suggest placing the boards on the floor and turning them 90 degrees so that their long sides are toughing.
One board: _
Five Boards: |||||

For magic: Split up the battlefield in 2, 3, etc. Sectors. Roll separate winds of magic for each and play a separate magic phase in each section involving any mages that are currently placed in that section. This way magic can be scaled up accurately compared to the army size, magic gets somewhat evenly spread across the battlefield and spells that affect "the entire battlefield" (such as 'wind of undeath') does not become overly powerful as they only affect one sector.