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Pawn of Decay
25-11-2011, 10:02
Now I have been using my Ogre army infrequently recently, struggling to get excited about fantasy. One of my friends is planning on going to Throne of Skulls in March 2012 for Fantasy and has asked me and a couple of others to go with him. Hoping that play testing and getting my army ready for this will get me into wanting to play fantasy a bit more I decided that I would go with him. Throne of skulls in March 2012 will be 2,000pts.

My Ogre army has been built more for fun than ultra competitive play, but I have had some success using an army similar to this at 2,400pts. I am hoping to try this list out for the first time this weekend, but any advice, tips or suggestions are greatly appreciated. I have a bit of time to get things ready, so I am not averse to buying more things if need be.

-=[Lord]=-

Slaughter Master: Joins the Ironguts
- Level 4
- Ironfist
- Armour of Destiny
- Hellheart

-=[Hero]=-

Bruiser: Joins the Ironguts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Heavy Armour
- Talisman of Preservation
- Great Weapon

-=[Core]=-

Ironguts [10]: Deployed 4x3
- Full Command
- Dragonhide Banner

-=[Special]=-

Mournefang Cavalry [3]
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour
- Musician

Mournefang Cavalry [3]
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour
- Musician

-=[Rare]=-

Thundertusk

Thundertusk

tmarichards
25-11-2011, 13:56
If you want to go down the Mournfang route, go with 3 units of 4. They're horrendous...

Pawn of Decay
25-11-2011, 14:54
I assume when you say horrendous, you mean good? I went with the mournefang because I love the models.

If I went for 3 units of 4 what would you drop? The thundertusks seem the obvious choice, but again I love the model and I would like to keep 1 at least because I think the Aura is a brilliant addition.

immortal git
27-11-2011, 00:43
Thats Solid. Exactly what I would be taking, to the point actually, its exactly what i would use :D I suppose if you wanted more fangs then dropping a thundertusk is the obvious choice

Pawn of Decay
28-11-2011, 08:08
Tried this list out for the first time yesterday against my friends High Elves. I managed to pull a win out of the bag, but Teclis proved annoying.

The Dragonhide Banner didn't really do as much as I was expecting. I have been considered droping the Dragon Hide Banner and the Slaughtermasters Iron Fist for an extra Irongut and the Banner of Eternal Flame on the Ironguts instead. This would give me a solid hitting unit that is capable of dealing with things like Trolls and Hydras comfortably.

immortal git
28-11-2011, 15:50
crack it on the mournfangs man, its great. You could drop just about anything for a banner of eternal flame

Pawn of Decay
29-11-2011, 10:41
The problem with sticking it on the Mournfang squad would be points. I would not have enough points in the core section, making me need to add more to the Ironguts, which would leave me with not enough points to give the Mournfang squad the banner.

spriten
29-11-2011, 12:20
I would suggest adding three single sabretusks to your list.
They are solid as warmachine hunters and ok as redirectors. But their main use is simply adding more to your deployment. You can force the enemy to deploy three of his "real" units(four if he's deployng first), while you only put down 63 points of throwaway sabres.
Combine this with some minimal units of gnoblars, and you can deploy all your ogres and monsters after he has set uphis entire army.

The Thundertusks can be useful, but are IMHO a tad overpriced.
They won't benefit your list that much either. If you had a lot of bulls, I could justify fielding one, but your IG have ASL and will only strike simultaneously with your enemy.
Personally I'd swap them for a pair of Ironblasters These guys are simply great, and are our most effective way of dealing with monsters/warmachines.
(especially if combine with ME with BoHGand the flaming banner, or a FB )

I'd also swap the Armour for Fencer's Blades on the SM. He is already T5/W5 and can heal himself with every successful spell. It will also both protect him and add to his offensive abilities.
Or you could just drop the armour/weapons completely and add the Sabres and a small unit of LBs or simply bulk up you Mournfangs.

Taking a peek at http://www.ogrestronghold.com/forum/index.php couldn't hurt either. These guys know a lot about ogres ;)

Hope this may help :)

Pawn of Decay
07-12-2011, 10:44
Thank you all for your help and assistance.

Spriten, I will try and have a look at the link you have suggested when I get some time. I'm certainly not sure about the lone Sabertusks. Surely a couple of units of 2 would prove better than 3 units of 1? Small units like that make me uneasy, how useful are they really?

I don't like the Ironblasters... Sadly I had looked at them in great detail and they seem so very over priced for what is essentially a moving cannon.

Anyway I have got my Throne of Skulls ticket this morning, and I had a few games at the weekend against a couple of mates who are also going. 1 of my friends is taking an all Monster Warriors of Chaos army, 1 is taking dwarfs and 1 is taking Daemons.

I have tweaked the army list slightly to the following. Again all comments etc. are most appreciated.

-=[Lord]=-

Slaughtermaster - 385pts
- Level 4: Lore of the Great Maw
- Armour of Destiney
- Hellheart

-=[Hero]=-

Bruiser - 190pts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Heavy Armour
- Great Weapon
- Talisman of Preservation

-=[Core]=-

Ironguts [11] - 503pts
- Musician
- Standard bearer with the Banner of Eternal Flame

-=[Special]=-

Mournefang [3] - 210pts
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour

Mournefang [3] - 210pts
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour

-=[Rare]=-

Thundertusk - 250pts

Stonehorn - 250pts

Out of the three games I played, I beat the Daemons and Warriors of Chaos armies, but lost horrifically to the dwarfs.

Akkaryn
07-12-2011, 10:58
Although not an ogre player my main opponent plays them. I have to say that the cannons are the only thing I have yet to be able to deal with in a consistent fashion. And are pretty much the only thing that worries me.

I play warriors / daemons and skaven.

kaptin_blacksquigg
07-12-2011, 11:31
A few comments:
1) It looks like the Orge FAQ will disallow magic armour on butchers/slaughter masters (according to Jervis). So I wouldn't go converting up a butcher in heavy armour untill we know for sure.
2) Single Tusks are good for a number of reasons. The main advantage over units of 2+ is that you aren't going to end up with a small panicked unit running amok. Also single models mean more drops (and you need more drops).
3) I'd try to find the points for some banners on the Mourfangs, as you currently only have2 for blood and glory. It also gives you the option of moving the BoET to them so your guts can get Standard of Discipline (Ld8 is not great for your general).
4) I love Ironblasters, I'd suggest giving one or two a go before dismissing them. A moving, more accurate cannon is amazing (think about flank shooting a unit of chaos knights or just removing the other guys war machines before them gut your death-star). It addition it is tough as hell and can even hold it's own in combat.

Over all I think your list is just a little one dimensional, as your only cast is using Great Maw (mainly defensive), your have minimal shooting (the thundertusk) and no redirectors. It's not bad per-say as it does what it does well, but I think you'll struggle in some games by being a bit predictable (run forward and break faces). Personally I'd drop the Stonehorn for a Iron-blaster and some sabertusks/Gnoblars to spice it up a bit.

Pawn of Decay
07-12-2011, 12:18
Isn't the point of Ogre's to run forward and punch people in the face? lol.

But I see your point. I am fairly new at fantasy, being a long term 40k player, so I am still struggling a bit with the army composition.

If it looks like they may FAQ the Slaughtermaster, and Magical Armour, the other way he may have to steal the Talisman of Preservation from the Bruiser with the Armour of Destiney going on the BSB.

Is hellheart worth it? I must admit I have been playing games against people with little, or no magic, and so far it just feels like it is a lot of points for what it achieves.

You seem to have sold me on trying the Ironblaster out.

So with your suggestion, drop the Stonehorn, bring in an Ironblaster and three single Sabertusks? I'm not sure exactly how to tweak it to move the banners around etc.

kaptin_blacksquigg
07-12-2011, 12:40
True :P

IMO the hell heart is good but extremely varied in what it does game to game. Since you only have one caster (and thus one arcane item) I'd be tempted to just use the good old dispel scroll (and save some points to boot). At high points when there will be more casters (and you'll have room for a second one), hell heart really starts to shine.

Personally I'd say 2 Sabretusks is fine at 2k, especially if your fairly new to fantasy as they can be a pain to use correctly (don't forget they cause panic to everything in 6" when they die).
I'd also give the Ironguts a champion encase there is a challenge you want to avoid. So I'd go for something like this:

=[Lord]=-

Slaughtermaster - 355pts
- Level 4: Lore of the Great Maw
- Armour of Destiny
- Dispel Scroll
-=[Hero]=-
Bruiser - 190pts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Heavy Armour
- Great Weapon
- Talisman of Preservation
(switching items depending on FAQ)
-=[Core]=-
Ironguts [11] - 523pts
- Full command, Standard of Discipline and lookout gnoblar
-=[Special]=-
Mournefang [3] - 210pts
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour
-Standard Bearer + BoI Flame
Mournefang [3] - 210pts
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour
-Standard Bearer
Sabretusk
Sabretusk
-=[Rare]=-
Thundertusk - 250pts
Iron-blaster - 170pts

Leaves you with something like 15points to spend on those tasty 5 points magic items: Dragonbane Gem, Potion of Foolhardiness, Ironcurse Icon, Rock Eye etc.

I also find that Orge characters don't usually need ward saves so I prefer to have more offensive item builds. This is especially true of the Slaughtermaster that will be healing himself when he casts (usually). But I know plenty of people that wouldn't level home without them, so very much personal taste.

Morax
07-12-2011, 12:49
As an Orge your greatest weakness is your initiative. The best way an opponent has of exploiting that is magic. Pit of shades and Purple Sun will eat giant holes out of your unit, regardless of which ones they are targeting. An Ogre's best defense against those spells is the hellheart. Thats why it is so good for you to take. It may not play in every game but in the games it does it shifts it entirely.

For your slaughtermaster, if you are looking for defensive kit give the fencer's blades a look. Weapon skill works the same in fantasy as it does in 40k and with about the same average of a 4. Having weapon skill 10 means quite a lot will be hiting him on 5's and with toughness 5 and the ability to regen wounds through casting he is extremely hard to kill.

You are right in assuming that the majority of ogres run forward and punch things in the face. There are however ways that your opponent can shake that fairly simple plan up. Solo Sabretusks can help foil these plots. Its a more advanced tactic but I'm sure you will manage. Think of it like bubble wrapping a tank with a single model. Sets up better match ups for you and has your killy units killing the things you want to kill. 3 of them are the best you can do under 3k and with them being easy to remove, you need saturation for them to be effective.

A note on the Ironblaster/Stonehorn/Thundertusk/every other new shiny thing in the book. Ultimately the best lists will see a spam of the best elements of the book and those are 2+ save Mournefang Cav. Failing that there isn't much that can contend with 3 attacks at strength 6 with 3 wounds. If you are looking for the go to tourny list it will look like:

Slaughtermaster with hellheart and one defensive piece
BSB with defensive kit
Ironguts
3 units of Mournefang Cav
3 solo Sabretusks
fill in points

All of the new awesome looking kits are nice but not points efficient when compared to other options. The only other unit I would give a look are maneaters for the inclusion of some of thier special rules. Give the other stuff a look if you want but if you are heading to an unrestricted tournament then you need to cover the basics first and go for the shinies second.

kaptin_blacksquigg
07-12-2011, 13:12
Ultimately the best lists will see a spam of the best elements of the book and those are 2+ save Mournefang Cav.

I couldn't disagree more. While obviously some choices are more points efficient than others, the idea that the best armies just span a few good units is crazy. The less variety you have the less able you are to deal with different situation. but I won't go into this more as it's a bit off topic.

I also disagree that Ironbasters are just a sub-par new shiny (Thundertusks and Stonehorns possibly) as they add so much to the army as a whole and are great value to boot. Even without the super accuarate cannon the chariot itself is probably worth 140 points (S5,T6,5W etc).

I do agree that fencers blades are a great option for Slaughter Master, and personally use them all the time.

Pawn of Decay
07-12-2011, 13:54
I will have a look at the armour for the Slaughtermaster then, but if the FAQ may go the other way disallowing the armour... the Talisman seems the way forward.

I'm not convinced with taking 3 units of the Mournefang. Whilst you believe the Thundertusk is just a new shiney toy, the Mournefang are only Iniative 2. Sure the Impact hits are great, but having the ability of not being mown down before they can hit is a nice touch.

spriten
07-12-2011, 21:44
Unfortunatey the the FAQ will disallow magical armour, Jervis said so himself.
But it really isn't needed for the reasons I've arlead mentioned.

Morax has many good points, but please, try out the IB befor you dismiss it. It simply is one of the most important units we hav access to.

On the Mournangs, I do agree it would be nice to strike first, but I'd rather have three more mournfangs (with 40pts to spare) than giving them higher I in CC.
With the Dragonhide banner they will be close to impervious to S3/S4 attacks on the charge. Even without it they are very resilient.

Hope you have time to read some discussions over at the Stronghold. Knowledge is power and stuff :P

Pawn of Decay
09-12-2011, 15:00
Hmm. Well I have tried the Ironblaster out a few games and lets say I remain to be convinced. I will admit that against the dwarfs it just died before it had a chance to do anything, but that is one of the issues I have. It seems very fragile against magic and other cannons etc.

Against deamons it got a turn of shooting off and was blown away by magic. It lasted a little bit longer against my friends troll heavy Warriors of Chaos army, even killing a couple of things, but it varied in use and didn't appear to be worth the points.

I have tried using the Stonehorn a bit more, and whilst some people seem to think it is just a shiney new toy, it has an effect that works. It is a bit more resilient than the Ironblaster and certainly packs a bit of a punch on the charge.

I have reworked the army list a little bit, and this is what I am currently now running. I have tried this list out twice, pulling a Draw against dwarfs and a win against the Daemons.

-=[Lord]=-

Slaughtermaster - 355pts
- Level 4: Lore of the Great Maw
- Talisman of Preservation
- Dispell Scroll

-=[Hero]=-

Bruiser - 191pts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Armour of Destiney
- Great Weapon

-=[Core]=-

Ironguts [11] - 513pts
- Musician
- Standard Bearer
- Look out Gnoblar
- Standard of Disciplin

-=[Special]=-

Mournefang [3] - 230pts
- Standard Bearer
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour
- Banner of Eternal Flame

Mournefang [3] - 210pts
- Ironfists
- Heavy Armour

-=[Rare]=-

Stonehorn - 250pts

Thundertusk - 250pts

I have been working on some ideas on how to paint the army, and at the moment I think I am working around a Slaneesh themed Ogre army. I am going to be using a unit filler in the Ironguts unit, the size of 4 Ironguts, using the new Manglar Squigs, lots of Chains etc.

Morax
09-12-2011, 17:34
It's not that the stonehorn and the thundertusk don't have an impact, it is weither they are worth the points you have to invest vs something else is my point on them. The two togeather are almost as many points as your unit of 11 iron guts with all the trimmings. Look at your next game and ask yourself if a second unit of guts would do just as much if not more. Look at the effect a single stonehorn has vs either of your units of mournefangs, which one comes out on top? The stats favor the mournefang cav angainst just about every foe. They even do the same number of impact hits with a unit of 3. All it has going for it in that comparison, that I can see, is a smaller foot print.

Hey ultimately people are going to find what works for them and what doesn't. Some people can make the Stonehorn sound so threatening that your opponent throws everything he has at it in an attempt to stop it. It will soak so much damage that it saves the rest of the list the two turns of shooting it needs to get there and pound apart the opposing units. I just feel that you will eventually come to the conclusion that although the other stuff looks nice on paper, it will all wind up like the Ironblaster, situational at best.

On a seperate train of thought, I really like your idea for your theme. Slaneesh ogres with lots of chains sounds cool. Gluttony is a big thing for Slaneesh and no one does gluttony like the ogres. I'd keep in mind that Slaneesh is all about excess of everything so you can focus on just about anything and call it worship of Slaneesh. Eating, pain, killing, it all works the same. Any idea on the scope of the place holder? Priest of Slaneesh on an alter or chain flailing maniac whipping the guts from behind into an extasy of pain could both be cool.

spriten
13-12-2011, 22:13
1+ to what Morax said, again :)

When you try to make a strong list, you have to ask yourself what you need. What can you expect to fight against, and how do you deal with it?
You need tools to deal with big units of core, scary CC units, cavaly,magic, fast cav/scouts, mosters and warmachines.
If your list has answers for all these, then you have a balanced list.

The IB is our best way to deal with warmachines, monsters, doomwheels etc without losing anything in return. IG are good at hurting monsters, but would struggle against say a Necrosphinx or twin hydras.Also If you're up against several of monsters in one list, you'd be hard pressed to deal with them.
An ironblaster gives you a more accurate cannon that can move and fire. It can more than fend for itself in CC, and can easily deal with most warmachine hunters.

Ogres also have quite the dislike for warmachines and stuff that does multiple wounds.
If you don't want an IB to deal with these, Sabretusks or maneaters are close to mandatory. Gorgers are useful, but aren't reliable to show up when you need them. I'd rather have something stop those WMs on T1 (IB/ Maneaters) or T2 (Sabres/IB/MEs)


Whatever you decide upon, I do hope you can some pics, the Slaanesh idea is almost too fitting. I'm currently working on a Slaanesh ME. So far I've only given him a very long tongue. I'm really tempted to give him a lot of tentacles, as that is about the most perverted my mind can conjure up(without going too far :P ), but I'm afraid he'll end up loking like a spawn :/

kaptin_blacksquigg
14-12-2011, 09:12
Sounds like the Ironblaster took an awful lot of heat off the rest of your army. Getting blow away turn 1 does mean it hasn't done it's job (although it'd be nice to get a shot or two off first), all that fire it takes to take down the Ironblaster would have probably decimated your Iron-guts if the imitate threat of the Blaster to distract. The StoneHorn is threatening, but not for a few turns, so most players will just ignore/redirect it for a few turns while they take down your Gut-star.

That said, if the list if the Horn is working for you, great.

One things I'd say in the new list is swap 1 gut for a pair of Tusks, they are just too useful to not include.

Pawn of Decay
16-12-2011, 09:47
Well thank you all for your comments still. It is all certainly appreciated it. I have tried the Iron Blaster out a couple of times now, and I either seem to be using them wrong, or they just hate me. I think I prefer the idea about trying to fit a couple of Sabertusks into the list, but I am unsure how to free up the points to fit them in. I can’t drop an Irongut as that would drop me below the minimum 25% core choice that I must take.

The Ironblaster died first turn to the first shot of a Dwarf Cannon the first game I used it :(

I will try and get a couple of photos of the Stonehorn up this weekend. It has been built and just needs a couple more touches before I can start painting. I have tried to not go too over the top, and most of the work has been done by a couple of friends of mine. I do the painting and the gaming, but modelling is not my forte. A couple of the Mournefang are almost finished in the building stage as well.

I have tried out this list a couple of times more and managed to win both games I have played with it. Last night I faced the list that my friend is going to be taking to Throne of Skulls. He is bringing his Dwarfs out of their mountains and took something along the lines of:

Rune Lord – On anvil
Quarrelers [30] – Great Weapons, Full command
Quarrelers [30] – Great Weapons, Full command
Hammerers [20] – Standard bearer with a banner that gives everyone a 5+ bubble saves within 6” from magic and shooting.
Organ Gun
Organ Gun
Cannon – Flaming
Cannon
Miners [20]
Miners [20]

That is the gist of his army list. The first time we played I got completely pasted. However this time, with some better deployment on my side, a bit worse luck for him (although mine was no better lol) I managed to wipe his army off of the board. By the end of the game he has his Rune Lord and a Cannon left, I had lost both units of Mournefang, the Stonehorn was down to 2 wounds and I had lost 5 of the Ironguts.

The Stonehorn was the man of the match by killing both units of miners, half of one of the Quarrelers units and an Organ gun. The Thundertusk on the other hand took some fire power away from elements of my army and managed to wound the Stonehorn lol. But when my enemy all has great weapons it is hard for it to perform its main function.

Pawn of Decay
20-12-2011, 22:38
After much thought and discussion within our group of gamers I have decided to change the gear on the slaughter master slightly.

I am thinking of dropping the talisman of preservation for the talisman of endurance and the magic weapon that strikes at initiative 10

Pawn of Decay
11-01-2012, 09:04
After a lot of play testing with the Ogre’s, and a good hard look at what the new Vampires look to have, I have been thinking about making some small changes to my army list. The changes would make the army look like this:

Lord

Slaughter Master – 330pts
- Level 4: Lore of the Great Maw
- Talisman of Endurance
- The Gold Sigil Sword

Hero

Bruiser – 191pts
- Battle Standard Bearer
- Armour of Destiny
- Great Weapon

Ogre Firebelly – 125pts
- Ironcurse Item

Core

Ironguts [11] – 513pts
- Standard Bearer with the Standard of Discipline
- Musician

Special

Mournefang [3] – 210pts
- Iron Fists
- Heavy Armour

Mournefang [3] – 210pts
- Iron Fists
- Heavy Armour

Rare

Stonehorn – 250pts

Iron Blaster – 170pts