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meanmachine
27-11-2011, 21:12
Since seeing the new monster kits I was wondering which of the 3 beastmen monsters is the best overall in games today

could some people give me their views on how effective these monsters are in game play

atm i would say my fav one is the gorgon since it can restore wounds and has a reliable killing blow for taken down characters

but what do you all think

Coldblood666
27-11-2011, 22:06
Ghorgon is the best out of the 3. It's the only one I would ever use. The other 2 need a 100pt reduction. The Ghorgon only needs a 65pt reduction, and will actually kill things for the most part.

the_slosh
28-11-2011, 12:04
I agree with Coldblood, but if you play SoM then the cygor is a complete.... well... monster. With so many mages he can wreak complete havoc

In normal games though the Ghorgon is probably your best bet, but don't send it into the front a unit and expect it to come out alive t6 6w with no save is not all that

Jind_Singh
28-11-2011, 14:39
Ghorgon is something I'd use in a normal game - he's a right killing machine - but the only downside is using his chomp attack to get wounds back - I'd be tempted to use his all out attach mode.

He's got a slightly better chance of toughing it out over a normal Giant = but also a lot of points!

I would like to use the Jabberslythe - as I love the model - but not sure how functional it is in the game.

The Cygor comes to the bottom of the heap - best place for monsters is in combat - so his shooting attack actually is his death sentance!

AlphariusOmegon20
28-11-2011, 15:10
It depends on what the scenario you're playing is.

If you're playing a normal game, The Ghorgon is the default choice.

If you're playing Storm of Magic, The Cygor is a better choice, with all the wizards running around.

If you're playing a doubles game and you're team mate is using Daemons, the Jabber's a better choice, paired up with the Icon of Despair, the Masque and Manbane standard. The Jabber adds well to the leadership "conga line" list.

Memnos
28-11-2011, 15:25
The Ghorgon is an absolute monster when combined with infantry. He wins the battles and the ranked infantry going deep provide the disabling of Steadfast.

And every time he wins, the Ghorgon gets meaner.

popisdead
28-11-2011, 23:19
If you're playing a normal game, The Ghorgon is the default choice.

If you're playing Storm of Magic, The Cygor is a better choice, with all the wizards running around.

If you're playing a doubles game and you're team mate is using Daemons, the Jabber's a better choice, paired up with the Icon of Despair, the Masque and Manbane standard. The Jabber adds well to the leadership "conga line" list.

Pretty much hits the nail on the head.

1 - Yes Ghorgon isn't too bad, especially if combined with an ASF Doombull and maybe a Razorgor Chariot or two.

2 - Just wanted to add that in SoM the Cygor is an amazing choice. He throws rocks that do multi-wound to monsters and Fulcrums move.

3 - The Jabber with Malagor, Manbane and Lore of Death can do something similar as well.

GodlessM
28-11-2011, 23:33
could some people give me their views on how effective these monsters are in game play

That's the thing, they're not.

Makaber
29-11-2011, 00:16
There's a lot of negative vibes surrounding the Beastmen monsters. It ain't all bad, though:

The Ghorgon is quite good. It's a very expensive monster, true, and is probably overpriced a bit, but people often compare it to a Hellpit Abomination or Hydra, both of which are bona fide underpriced/overpowered, so it's a bit of an unfair comparison. As for its strengths:

Toughness 6 is pretty huge, as it can go up against Strength 4 troops with a fair degree of survivability. It is superbly good at tearing through stuff, with Strengh 6 meaning wounding on 2+, and Bloodgreed racking up the attacks faster than I initially thought they would (my personal best is 11, before Thunderstomp). Finally, two things people seem determined to overlook: In a primarily infantry based army, it offers a highly mobile unit choice that packs too much of a threat to overlook. Move 7 and pivot on the spot means you can get it where it needs to be, and that place is threatening the living daylights out of some unfortunate regiment flank. And the second thing is, for some ridicilous reason, people seem to completely forget it's actually Stubborn on Ld10.

Downsides are of course a bit too expensive, extremely vulnerable to poison and warmachines, and the Swallow Whole really isn't that good because it usually means losing the combat, and thus getting the Frenzy knocked out of you along with any bonus attacks you have. It's important to note, though, that Bloodgreed means you get the Frenzy back once you win a round, so it might be worthwhile using the first round of a combat, if its taken some wounds from a cannonball or whatever. (Hopefully) chomp down a champion or some lesser character round one to gain some staying power, then revert back to regular attacks following rounds. Also, it's good if it's more important for the Ghorgon to occupy the unit, rather than killing it.

ftayl5
29-11-2011, 00:20
Ghorgon is by far the best of the 3 IMO.
But for the same points you could get a unit of 30 Gors or 3 Tuskgor Chariots or 5 Razorgors... I know which I'd prefer...

AlphariusOmegon20
29-11-2011, 01:07
That's the thing, they're not.

Speak for yourself, M. I've been using all 3 of them (proxied of course, because there were no models before now) for months.

brother_maynard
29-11-2011, 14:07
aside from the general overcosted-ness of the monsters, the real obstacle i find to fielding them is the doombull. there is very little reason to include a big beastie when, for just a little more, you can get a fully kitted doombull who is MUCH better in terms of survivability and killing power.

Makaber
29-11-2011, 15:51
Ghorgon is by far the best of the 3 IMO.
But for the same points you could get a unit of 30 Gors or 3 Tuskgor Chariots or 5 Razorgors... I know which I'd prefer...

Here's the thing, though. That reasoning assumes I don't already have any of those. Razorgors are by far best when run in several units of one, and I never make a list without two (and probably some Harpies as well), so as far as chaff goes, I'm sorted. I have 2 Chariots, and frankly they're not that great so I don't see the need for more. The most useful of the three alternatives is the Gors, but Gors are only good if they have some characters and magic backing them up. The mainstay of any list will be Gors, simply because they're the best core choice so you'll need a bunch, and you'll probably want a solid block of Bestigors too, so that's two big blocks wying for your attention already. Including a third one is where the diminishing returns start to set in.

So yes, I know very well which I'd prefer: The Ghorgon, or something similar. Not because it's neccessarily better than the alternatives you propose, but it offers me something I don't already have plenty of. Another instrument in my hircine marching band of destruction.

Voss
29-11-2011, 17:14
I'd recommend the Cygor over the others, to be honest. It does several things that you pretty much can't get elsewhere in the army. The ghorgon just doesn't do anything that you can't replicate elsewhere in the army, probably more effectively and possibly for less as well.

sulla
29-11-2011, 18:10
Razorgor chariots would have been a far more useful release for this army. For combined combats with beastmen infantry blocks, they are just as good as a ghorgon with the added benefit that they can actually catch and run down enemy fleeing infantry.

AlphariusOmegon20
29-11-2011, 19:42
Razorgor chariots would have been a far more useful release for this army. For combined combats with beastmen infantry blocks, they are just as good as a ghorgon with the added benefit that they can actually catch and run down enemy fleeing infantry.

I've thought about having a go at making some Razor chariots. I think the key might be doing it in a similar way to the Khorne daemonic chariot's style.