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stashman
30-11-2011, 11:25
This is a 3000 pts army based on Mr.Malorians last tournament list. That list was 2500, so I have stretched it to work at 3000 pts, without doing to much harm, just adding big things. I also wan't comments and critics about it, so I canb make it "better". It's made to fight ogres!!!

Orc Great Shaman, 270 pts
General; Level 4 Upgrade; Hand Weapon
Dispel Scroll; Talisman of Preservation

Night Goblin Big Boss, 70 pts
Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon
Standard of Discipline

20 Night Goblins, 60 pts
Hand Weapon; Short Bow

*** General, BSB in the small NG bunker, behind the lines.



40 Savage Orc Big'Uns, 460 pts
Musician; Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Extra Hand Weapon; Warpaint

40 Black Orcs, 510 pts
Musician; Standard Bearer; Armed to da Teef; Heavy Armour
Banner of Eternal Flame

Squig Herd, 365 pts
40 Squigs, 15 Herders

*** Three hard hitting units!!!



70 Night Goblins, 265 pts
Standard Bearer; Nets; Spear; Shield

*** To tie up deathstars or other nasty things.




20 Orc Arrer Boyz, 140 pts
Hand Weapon; Bow; Light Armour

*** Good as flankers or if you get Watchtower scenario.



5 Goblin Wolf Riders, 55 pts
Hand Weapon; Short Bow; Light Armour

5 Goblin Wolf Riders, 55 pts
Spear; Light Armour

Troll, 35 pts

*** Diverters and sabretusk hunters



Orc Boar Chariot, 85 pts

Goblin Wolf Chariot, 50 pts

*** Smash down the enemy as support to the hard hitting units.



Arachnarok Spider, 290 pts

Arachnarok Spider, 290 pts

*** I think the big gribbly spider shall come in two. Great as supporting unit (giving terror/fear) and can charge almost everywhere.



Give me your thougths. Not enough characters? Not enough wizards?

thesheriff
30-11-2011, 14:15
Personally, the boar chariot would be better as a wolf chariot. mostly because is then got better symmetry. But also, any pts saved coudl go towards some basic lv.1 NG shamans. Every list should have two. Prehaps dropping a few squigs and orcs (of both varuetys included) could pay for them.

Looks good otherwise :)

thesheriff

GreenSpeed
30-11-2011, 14:29
The unit of orc archers looks much better on paper than it actually does on the board, ive tried these guys out a few times and they were of very little use to me. For 10 pts more you can get a unit of 3 wolf chariots, which are great. they really help with things like sword masters and the like.

Consider a lvl 1 or 2 savage orc shaman with shrunken head for the savage orc unit, the improved ward for a horde can make a huge difference, its 2x more effective.

boar chariots are not nearly as good as wolf chariots, take units of 3, they are cheap and do so much damage.

The rest looks pretty solid. Im dont use the lone trolls or fast cav but thats just personal preference.

Glenn87
30-11-2011, 20:32
could you post Malorian's basic list? (like to see that).

stashman
30-11-2011, 20:51
could you post Malorian's basic list? (like to see that).

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrMalorian#p/u/30/BSUzh_fXvgw

tmarichards
30-11-2011, 23:56
If it's a tournament list, then the starting point should be 2 Manglers, 2 Pump Wagons (usually with +1M dice), 2 Doom Diver and 2 Rock Lobbers. At 3k, you could probably take 3 of each.

Combat orc lists are pretty rubbish tbh, the army just doesn't do combat very well. Choppas are the 1 saving grace, but armies with poor WS, poor I, poor S (barring either the first round of combat or the Big Unz upgrade) and no access to re-rolls are not the type to do combat well.

Sure, you can get round this by just having more models left, but those models are pointless for large chunks of the game- so why not take those points and put them in things that will actually help more often throughout the games?

A Shrunked Head hero would be really nice for the Savages, you've already put so many points into them it just doesn't really make sense not to pay a few more points to make them a whole lot better. A Stubborn Crown Black Orc in there would really help as well, all it currently takes is a little but of redirecting and a failed frenzy test and that massive unit can get flanked, broken and run down.

GreenSpeed
01-12-2011, 14:00
Im gonna have to disagree with Tom on orcs not being a combat army. Point for point orcs can rip through most everything they face. Just need to get the matchups right. Black orcs against monsters and cav, Savage big uns against infantry, night goblins with nets can actually win combats against other light/medium infantry aswell.

Their disadvantage is that they dont have access to the lore of life or shadow, and cant abuse those buffs like other armies. Sure mindrazoring anything or giving +4 toughness makes anything much better in combat.

zielonkak
01-12-2011, 14:07
A just take a reg Orc for example, for 7 pts u can have 2 strength 4 attacks and have toughness 4. Compare that to most armies and your talking about an elite unit and more cost

Djine Phaï
02-12-2011, 14:16
For sure, orcs can not win in combat against all enemies...but 70+ NG units are there for this type of enemies !

Maybe you should try to add another shaman :
- your lV4 boss may carry the earthing rod (defensive), or power stone (offensive)
- in case of animosity, you can still cast some spells...

With 2 monsters, you should also try to take some manglers squigs (to increase the number of priority targets). Drop the arrer boyz for example.

Glenn87
04-12-2011, 23:09
Alright, I've checked Malorian's list, but is it actually any good?
It seems that he's got alof of random stuff in there that could be replaced by cheeper things doing the same...

He doesn't have ANY war machine, his only shooting comes from the Arrer Boyz (wich isn't really effective) and 1 Wolf Chariot (3 shots...whoow). I don't even count the NG bunker, as they'll be hiding with the characters behind enemy lines.

The Boar Chariot, Arrer Boyz, Spider Riders...could all be replaced by cheeper stuff that does the same (in the same order: Wolf Chariot, another NG archer unit, Wolf Riders). He only has 2 characters... and he has no BO to quel animosity.
I mostly lack War machines (doom divers, rock lobbers) and fanatics...

Does anyone know how he fared at this tourney he went to (Onslaught 2011)??

tmarichards
04-12-2011, 23:54
I can't speak for his results because I've not followed his tournament progress, but on the UK tournament circuit at least his list would be regarded as pretty soft- apart from the Savage Big'Un bus, he's not got anything that makes people worry about the O&G army (Manglers, Doom Divers, Pump Wagons, Rock Lobbers), because the orcs themselves are fairly poor.

GreenSpeed
05-12-2011, 03:00
Recently won best general at a tournament with a similar orc combat list. Had a lvl 4 savage shaman, blorc bsb, ng shaman, 30 savage big uns, 30 blorcs, 60 ng, w 2 fanatics, 3 wolf chariots, 20 arrer boys and 2 manglers.

Against empire, got battle for the pass and played poorly, none of my army performed well. Mostly due to very poor play by me.

Against dark elves my savages ripped through a unit of corsairs and made the hydra run away through cr. Night goblins ended up weathering a lot of shooting before running through 2 crossbow units and a boltthrower (only had 17 left at the end of game). Manglers and chariots ate some executioners and black guard which the black orcs then cleaned up.

Against skaven, the manglers softened up two hordes and screwed with his movement (which I feel won me the game) savage orcs ripped through a horde of rats, blorcs ate an abomination but then got spanked by furnace horde. Night goblins took out a unit of 30 storm vermin (thanks to nets) overan into some slaves and then killed a cannon. Chariots killed some night runners before getting cannoned to death.

Against warriors of chaos, manglers and fanatics took out a unit of knights. Black orcs outlasted some khorne ax mauraders (but barely). Night goblins and chariot combo charge to out a big block of nurgle warriors mainly due to nets and impact hits. Savages outlasted a unit of khorne warriors.

In all of these games the arrer boys did nothing. Savages and ng were beasts, blorcs have their purpose but are only ok. Manglers are hit and miss but will always give away their vps. Orcs can be a good combat army, just need to play your match ups right.

Glenn87
05-12-2011, 05:21
Recently won best general at a tournament with a similar orc combat list. Had a lvl 4 savage shaman, blorc bsb, ng shaman, 30 savage big uns, 30 blorcs, 60 ng, w 2 fanatics, 3 wolf chariots, 20 arrer boys and 2 manglers.

Against empire, got battle for the pass and played poorly, none of my army performed well. Mostly due to very poor play by me.

Against dark elves my savages ripped through a unit of corsairs and made the hydra run away through cr. Night goblins ended up weathering a lot of shooting before running through 2 crossbow units and a boltthrower (only had 17 left at the end of game). Manglers and chariots ate some executioners and black guard which the black orcs then cleaned up.

Against skaven, the manglers softened up two hordes and screwed with his movement (which I feel won me the game) savage orcs ripped through a horde of rats, blorcs ate an abomination but then got spanked by furnace horde. Night goblins took out a unit of 30 storm vermin (thanks to nets) overan into some slaves and then killed a cannon. Chariots killed some night runners before getting cannoned to death.

Against warriors of chaos, manglers and fanatics took out a unit of knights. Black orcs outlasted some khorne ax mauraders (but barely). Night goblins and chariot combo charge to out a big block of nurgle warriors mainly due to nets and impact hits. Savages outlasted a unit of khorne warriors.

In all of these games the arrer boys did nothing. Savages and ng were beasts, blorcs have their purpose but are only ok. Manglers are hit and miss but will always give away their vps. Orcs can be a good combat army, just need to play your match ups right.

Seems like I'd much rather have 2 Doom Divers instead of those arrer boyz. I'm considering using those in fun-games, but never in a competitive list.
I've been using the Mangler squigs for a few weeks now (finally got my O&G up to 2000-2500 points), and it ALWAYS gets its poitns back. Last game it got touched (and destroyed) by 2 jungle swarms. I got really pissed, untill I heart those swarms cost 90 points...that's almost 1.5 times a Squig.
Also seems like you're opponents were pretty weak (at least the DE one, can't speak for the other as I don't play those armies).

MOMUS
05-12-2011, 05:55
Its interesting to see the difference in competitive trends.
I propose a tournament exchange between tmarichards and malorian.

tmarichards
05-12-2011, 15:46
I've actually challenged him to a game on Universal Battle but he wasn't up for it.

Malorian
06-12-2011, 22:14
It should be noted that the list of mine that this is based off of is a fairly friendly list that I used.

A more standard competitive 3k list for me would be more like this:


Lvl 4 savage orc great shaman w/ shrunken head, fencers blades, potion of toughness

Night goblin big boss BSB
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon
Night goblin big boss w/ great weapon

40 savage orc big uns w/ extra choppa, banner
100 night goblins w/ spears, banner, nets
25 night goblins w/ bows, banner, fanatic
5 wolf riders w/ shields, spears
5 wolf riders w/ shields, spears

18 trolls
40 black orcs w/ banner
42 squigs and 14 herders

Total: 3000

tmarichards
07-12-2011, 20:04
Still not the best of lists really, very one-dimensional.

Jack of Blades
07-12-2011, 20:17
Orcs and Goblins with neither orcs nor (foot-slogging) goblins :(

Malorian
07-12-2011, 20:24
Still not the best of lists really, very one-dimensional.

Combat is what greenskins do best.

Shooting is weak in 8th and O&G don't have good warmachines anyway.

The best spell O&G have is foot of gork and I have access to it.

What more can you ask?


(I'm starting to think you are just trying to taunt me into a game ;))

tmarichards
07-12-2011, 20:31
O&G don't have good war machines? I disagree immensely, Doom Divers and Rock Lobbers are very very good, and very very cheap.

You've also not got any Manglers, or Pump Wagons, both of which are also very good and also very cheap.

Rosstifer
07-12-2011, 20:37
O&G don't have good war machines? I disagree immensely, Doom Divers and Rock Lobbers are very very good, and very very cheap.

You've also not got any Manglers, or Pump Wagons, both of which are also very good and also very cheap.

Your thinking a bit English centric. That chaff is what I would expect to see in every NZ or British tournament O&G list.

From what I can gather, American Warhammer is a lot more no-comp smashing big units together.

And if that's the case I think Malorian's list would do quite well.

No point taking a Doom Diver if everyone has units of 40+, it just doesn't have the damage output. I do agree Mangler Squigs might be a good addition though.

Malorian
07-12-2011, 21:29
Exactly. Both warmachines simply don't do enough damage to large blocks.

Manglers are great, but only in the right situation, and I'm not willing to take that risk. If my opponent has any serious shooting, magic missiles, or cheap throw away unit then the mangler is useless. If my opponent is running a bunch of cheap hordes then it's pointless. You can't play against ogres all the time ;)

I disagree on pump wagons but our opinions probably differ since I don't take any warmachines that I would need to protect with them. Fast cav can dance around me all they want, I'm blitzing the rest :D

GreenSpeed
08-12-2011, 01:20
I appreciate Malorians play style and have built my own lists around pure combat units. I've played with archers and warmachines and find that even with them I'm mostly outgunned which forces me to send my troops forward anyway, which means I've got a bunch of easy points doing nothing in my backfield.

I feel units of wolf chariots are under rated aswell, for 150 points you get a lot of impact hits which can really soften up blocks and in combination with goblins can do enough damage to win and take away steadfast.