PDA

View Full Version : Daemons 3k... Again (I'm not holding my breath this time)



Johnnyfrej
06-12-2011, 02:06
Don't know exactly why I'm still posting lists, you would have thought I had learned my lesson (Warseer sucks for feedback). Anyway maybe I'll get lucky and someone might bother to read this.

So I have a new goal list for 3k Daemons, here it is:

Kairos 625 (General)

Skulltaker 150
-With Bloodletters

Herald of Khorne 140
-Armor of Khorne
-Soul Hunger
-With Bloodletters

Herald of Tzeentch 240
-Spell Breaker
-Master of Sorcery, Lore of Life
-BSB, Banner of Sundering
-With Horrors

Herald of Slaanesh 120
-Torment Blade
-Daemonic Robes
-With Daemonettes

Herald of Slaanesh 120
-Torment Blade
-Steed of Slaanesh
-With Seekers

28 Bloodletters 366
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command

29 Horrors 453
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command
--Icon of Sorcery
--Changling

29 Daemonettes 378
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command

9 Seekers 261
-5x2 Formation
-Full Command
--Siren Standard

4 Flamers

Let's hear what nobody has to say.

HalfBlood
06-12-2011, 03:05
Don't know exactly why I'm still posting lists, you would have thought I had learned my lesson (Warseer sucks for feedback). Anyway maybe I'll get lucky and someone might bother to read this.

So I have a new goal list for 3k Daemons, here it is:

Kairos 625 (General)

Skulltaker 150
-With Bloodletters

Herald of Khorne 140
-Armor of Khorne
-Soul Hunger
-With Bloodletters

Herald of Tzeentch 240
-Spell Breaker
-Master of Sorcery, Lore of Life
-BSB, Banner of Sundering
-With Horrors

Herald of Slaanesh 120
-Torment Blade
-Daemonic Robes
-With Daemonettes

Herald of Slaanesh 120
-Torment Blade
-Steed of Slaanesh
-With Seekers

28 Bloodletters 366
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command

29 Horrors 453
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command
--Icon of Sorcery
--Changling

29 Daemonettes 378
-6x5 Formation
-Full Command

9 Seekers 261
-5x2 Formation
-Full Command
--Siren Standard

4 Flamers

Let's hear what nobody has to say.


Your comment is so sad :((( Im actually a competitive daemon player who uses Karios at 2,500 list. So lets see what you have....


I dont know how competitive you want this list to be so I am just going to tell you it from the level i use my 2,500 list at.


Karios is always an excellent choice, he is very strong, however i suggest you to post what 8 spells your going to take. ( I usually take Throne of vines, Dwellers Blow, Regrowth, and Bironas Time Warp. On the other head i take Mystifying Miasma, Purple Sun, Enfeebling Foe, and Random Spell [I let my opponent pick this spell for fun])


First of all i am a big fan of Khorne, Bloodletters do it best, You can never have enought letters, they are perfect Vs Knights and Heavy armored units. They are magic resistance, but at the same time resistance against lame magical spells like Dwellers Blow which i exploit.

Heralds of Khorne should take Armor of Khorne(3+ armor) , and firestorm blade (this is debateable because it gives him flaming attacks. Their is so many abilities that give lords/heros a ward against flaming so you decide if you want your heralds to have this.) Soul Hunger is a little waste of points due to the fact that the herald will most likely wound on a 2+ the reroll is not really necessary.

I suggest bringing a Lone Herald of Tz with master sorcery(Life) with Spell Breaker and Disc. A combo i use on opponents is Enfeebling Foe (-D3 S) and then cast Dwellers Blow from my herald. Pretty much kills anything.

I think skulltaker is perfect he allows 1 blood letter unit to have MR 2 which is even better against magical spells, not to mention he pretty much counters 95% of Lords/Heros/Large Targets.

I run my Blood Letter units in groups of 30, 6 Columns by 5 rows. Your Blood letter unit should definitely contain the Icon of endless War. 3D6 on the first charge will surprise your opponent.


Im not a big fan of Pink Horrors/ Daemonettes because of the fact that they are S3. I play alot of people who take Dwellers Blow/Purple Sun. These abilities bypass all saves, therefore untis with low S and low I are very vulnerable. Not to mention Blood Letters are just stronger Daemonettes. Because If you take Fateweaver then you should take Bironas Time Warp ( this doubles attacks gives them ASF, and doubles their movement.)

Pink Horrors wont be able to use up any powerdice due to Fateweaver useing most of them.


If your playing a less experienced opponent i suggest taking Seekers, however Flamers are probably the most cost efficient unit in the book.

In my 2,500 list I take 2 units of 6 flamers. These units can tear apart lightly armored units, but at the same time and dish it on in CC. 2 Attacks and S 5 per model is pretty wicked. Not to mention 2 wounds a model.

Sometimes I decide to take a unit of 6 Flesh Hounds (instead of the flamers). These guys are more 1-wayed. They can work amazingly against some armies, or terrible against others. Against armies that have alot of shooting these guys can be linebreakers. However against armies like WoC who will be marching at you all game and can dish out CC I dont suggest these flesh hounds who will most likely lose to WoC in CC.



In the end its all about your preference. I suggest trying to squeeze this list into 2,500.

If you want to see my 2,500 list just comment back and I can post it.


Overall I like the list, and dont be hating Warseer >:(

Arijharn
07-12-2011, 04:28
I realise this is too late for you, but in order to aid anyone else thinking about a list like this with similar setup I'd make the following arguments:
If you have Kairos, then I'd probably change your HoT from being a Loremaster life into just being a mana battery (aka Power Vortex) for Kairos and very occasionally your Pink Horrors and put him into the horror bunker, otherwise it's unlikely that you'll be able to maximize power generation. I'd make your Herald of Khorne your BSB, especially with Armour of Khorne, and put him in the letter bunker alongside Skulltaker. As for Skulltaker; I like him but I think it's far too easy to neuter a 150+ character with a 5 point magic item, so it really depends on the opponent imo.

HalfBlood
07-12-2011, 21:17
The problem i see with that is Power Vortex is not really worth the point cost, however a herald of Tz with MoS provides the Enfeebling Foe + Dwellers Blow combo which is very effective against armies that daemons are unable to compete in CC.

The way I look at Skulltaker being beneficial for daemons is to allow your daemon unit MR2 which gives them a 3+ Ward against spells. Not to mention Skulltaker counters Abominations/Dragons/NecroSpyinxes, all the way down to multi wound ogres and minotaurs. Yes the magical item that prevents against flaming attacks is very cheap, however I have found most people not to take it in all-comers lists.

If someone knows your taking skulltaker then they should take the item, however I have played my army enough to manipulate magic to get the job done. The CC blocks are just for intimidation, they look awsome, and they are above average in close combat. If your opponent throws a block of warriors against my bloodletter block, the bloodletters almost always lose, unless supported by magic.


The average powerdice per magic phase is 7, this is enough for 2 casters. Its not hard to roll 2 dice for karios and cast a spell. You can also pull off the combo I have stated above with 7 dice First you cast Boon of Tz, either throw 1 or 2 dice into to it, then throw 2 dice for karios Enfeebling Foe, the average roll is 13 on 2 dice for Karios. Most likely your opponent will let it go since he will have maybe 3/4 dice. Then you roll the other 5 into Dweller on the same unit. Since you casted Boon you might have 1 or 2 extra powerdice for Karios which will allow for debuffing another enemy unit with Miasma. The best part is your opponent needs to dispel the dwellers Blow, or you will wipe out his unit, if you irris you kill his unit, if he dispels it then you have 2 remains in play spells on enemy units which will require him to dispel it next turn. If you roll poorly for Winds of Magic you can always just use Karios reroll to roll 1 Dice. If you know like the HoT, i suggest Blue Scribs, hes just a fun character who is pretty cheap to boost your overall magic gain.

I forgot to mention about the BsB, I run a bsb on one of my heralds which is the -2 leadership(I cant remember the name at the moment). This is extremely potent when taking Fear tests, and break tests.

Arijharn
08-12-2011, 11:32
Hmm, yeah, I actually managed to forget entirely about Kairos. Kairos being in the list tends to make Power Vortex not that useful (at the very least; Kairos can do the Boon of Tzeentch, chances are also good that you've probably chosen Purple Sun as well which can be quite awesome when used in conjunction with the whole Soul Leech or whatever the Death attribute is called)

The reason why I argue Power Vortex as being quite useful (essential) is that if I'm using a LoC I'm using a regular one with Master of Sorcery, Power Vortex and something else. A normal LoC is obviously a lot more limited than Kairos.

I personally don't think Skulltaker really counters aboms and Necrosphinxs all that well. While he does have a high strength of 6 (and flaming attacks), he can't do his HKB on them. In my opinion, abombs are countered with much more assurance with a pack of Flamers. Necrosphinx's being T8 are as hard for Skulltaker to slay as it is for a Bloodthirster (sans firestorm or Awesome Strength) to slay. Luckily, Necrosphinxs are just one Purple Sun away from oblivion.

I agree with the banner of Despair, it's quite useful. It's even more useful if you're running around with said Death loremaster and masque if you really want something to break or otherwise fail a Ld test (favourite of mine being the combination of Pavane and/or Slicing Shards)

HalfBlood
08-12-2011, 20:19
Actually he can do his killing blow to them.

I dont have my army book with me at the time being however, if i remember correctly that his killing blow in challenges is bumped to a 5+ however he always has a killing blow that can affect creatures of all sizes.

Yea that slicing shard combo is pretty ruthless combinded with despair banner and Pavane.

Arijharn
09-12-2011, 06:53
Right, but you can only challenge characters, as Necrosphinx and abominations aren't characters, you therefore can't challenge them and can't therefore get his 5+ HKB. You still get your normal KB on 6's, but well, you can't KB monsters etc.

HalfBlood
10-12-2011, 02:16
Thats not how i have seen others use it at tournaments, however Skulltaker was next to an Abomination but he 5+ killing blowed somthing. If your correct I assume Skulltaker killed some character.

Their are other counters to giant things like purple sun, I guess thats a counter.

Walls
10-12-2011, 02:34
You use Skulltaker against monstrous mounts and monstrous infantry characters like Ogres. Even outside a challenge he's still pretty beast.

Also, if you're going big, 30 or more, why not always go horde? You can't be broken, steadfast isn't so important.

Firestorm blade: Considering how EVERYONE takes flaming ward saves, I don't think it's really worth it anymore. Too many units and characters have 2+ ward vs flaming and they'll just send them right into that guy.

Siren Song? Your army seems perfect for Siren Song. Get them in, flank, destroy...