PDA

View Full Version : Necrons Newb



gnarkill
06-12-2011, 16:25
I have been playing 40k for about 10 years now. But I havent done anything with it in the last 2 years. Im just now getting back into it with my old army (Necrons) and turns out they have a new codex. :p

I entered in a local escalation league (I dont know if this is a real thing... so I will explain it). Basically you start out with 500 pts worth of an army during the month of January. Feb you increase 250 points, March another 250... until you get to 1750. You play a min. of 3 games a month and are scored according to the outcome, and model (if painted and flocked).

Long story short... I wanna get back into this, but I wanna do it smart. If flipped thru the codex and have a basic understanding of these bad boys. But I wanna hear your sage advice and see what would you would use.

I already have:

48 Warriors
10 Immortals
1 Lord
6 Destroyers
12 Scarabs
2 Monoliths

I already am drooling over the fact I can use Immortals as troops. I think I wanna do it... but I am unsure if its the best choice.

Help me out here, tell me some of your favorite units and why, some sweet tactics (like fish of fury back in the day with Tau... if anyone knows what Im talking about) and most importantly... Help me build a "Take All Comers" list for a 500 pt game (1hq and 2 troops).

Thanks in advance! :)

madival
06-12-2011, 16:35
My suggestion is 10 immortals, 10 warriors, overlord with mind shackle scarabs, warscythe, phareon, and 4 scarabs. There shouldnt be much mech at this level and that character will eat other characters, the scarabs can eat/tarpit what ever else you fight m and thoat immortals throwing out s5 relentless gaussfire is nasty. the warriors are good as they are marines with a 4+ save. should come to around 500 pts (if I am correct, I dont have the book with me). breaks down to 170 pts of immortals, 130 points of warriors, 140 points of lord, and 60 points of scarab. if anyone is a mean person and brings something big and nasty, (mephiston/big tank) your HQ will be able to mildly handle them for relatively cheap.

gnarkill
06-12-2011, 17:29
Also, if you dont mind... I would also like to get a 750 and a 1000 pt list to build up in the future (for Feb and March) cause Im a slow painter... mainly because I hate it.

madival
06-12-2011, 17:40
You really gotta see what works for you and go from there. Necrons are looking to be a strange group. Some things will work better for some people then others (Law of Instruments if you will)

Lord Damocles
06-12-2011, 17:43
Overlords might as well be 115pts base, since a Warscythe and Mindshackle Scarabs are pretty much must-buys.


madival's list looks solid (I might drop a couple of Warriors for more Scarabs) for 500pts.

At 750, I might look at adding a couple of Crypteks (Harbringers of Destruction) in 5 strong Warrior squads. I've found them to be pretty effective as cheap-ish (100pts) scoring units which basicly exist to protect the Crypteks while providing some anti-tank.

The bearded one
06-12-2011, 17:58
750 and 1000 points..... add 2 monoliths! :D

Yes, I can hear them crying cheese already, while being trampled under the iron boots of the Necron... heheheh...
And frankly it's always good to add scarabs, always. Always. Irregardless of the situation, you will always like some extra scarabs.

gnarkill
06-12-2011, 17:59
I assume you put the lances on them then eh?

<edit> How would you sneak 2 monos in there? hahaha! Maybe a Doomsday Ark...

Also, how are destroyers now? I remember 2 years ago... they wernt even worth my while!

And I am curious to hear what you all think about Wraiths (they seem like they got MEGA-BUFFED... but idk) and I also wanna hear about Lychguards!

One more question... with the Royal Court... Does ONE HQ spot contain 0-5 Lords AND Crypteks? Or is it 1 HQ spot for 5 Lords and 1 other spot for the 5 Crypteks?

The bearded one
06-12-2011, 18:14
Destroyers are.. myeh. They used to be better as they had a shot more, a strenght more, and some range more. However they do have AP3 now, forcing marines to keep their heads down.

Wraiths became totally awesome. I'm going to run 4 with whip coils, with a destroyerlord with mindshackle scarabs, a 2+ save and a warscythe attached to them. Kychguard are..mmmhmm.. okay. You better like the models if you'd be using them.

The royal court takes no HQ slots IIRC. It comes as an option for the HQ overlord you bought :)

gnarkill
06-12-2011, 18:23
heh, I see now... So its 1 Overlord gets 0-5 Lords AND 0-5 Crypteks? Or is it just one or the other?

I did say I was a newb.... dont crucify me! :p

The bearded one
06-12-2011, 19:29
awwwww.... * drops the cross *

For each overlord you can include a royal court in your army. This royal court does not take up an HQ choice and consists of 0-5 lords and 0-5 crypteks in whatever manner you want to mix and match. These models together form 1 unit, consisting of solely lords and crypteks. Models from this unit may also split off before the battle and be assigned to lead a unit of warriors, immortals, lychguard or deathmarks. Only one member of the royal court can join each unit in this manner. Otherwise, they remain part of the royal court.

gnarkill
06-12-2011, 20:29
So would you recomend Mech or Static Crons?

I like the idea of Ghost Arks (assuming I understand them properly), and the Night Scythes dont seem that good in comparison (unless you can do the mega super speed AND unload... heh, but maybe Im missing something), tho I guess if I wanna do Immortals I have no choice.

And yet another "probably obvious but I dont know newb question"... When you team up the Lord with Immortals or Warriors... can they tag team along in the transport?

Ace Rimmer
06-12-2011, 20:36
Ghosts Ark's are good for keeping warriors alive and adding in some firepower.

Night Scythe's are basically Annihilation barges but trading the other gun for a 15 model transport capacity that can include jump infantry(2 models per) or jetbikes(3 models per) , the only real downside to which is that when you do decide to try and ram 6 wraiths and a destroyer lord down your opponents throat, they have to mount up first, although there's no reason why you couldn't try and keep it obscured behind something else (a doom scythe maybe? :P)

To the best of my knowledge, there is no restriction against putting the lord in their transport, I assumed that's why they specifiy in the ghost ark as to who can mount up.

gnarkill
06-12-2011, 21:20
So the question is... Warriors or Immortals? It seems like for 4 pts more... Immortals are a WHOLE LOT BETTER than Warriors... Assult 2 24" vs rapid fire, and a 3+ vs 4+ armor save. Thats what i see... am I missing something?

My only dilema is if I wanna dump my 48 warriors I have and buy like 30 more immortals... haha

gjinari
07-12-2011, 00:14
Unfortunately Immortals no longer have Assault 2 weapons. They are still S5 AP4 but are now rapid fire. Itís still a MEQ platform with a 1/3 rez chance. But large squads of Tesla are proving themselves too.

There are tutoritals about making warriors into immortals btw.

gnarkill
07-12-2011, 00:24
ahhhhh... balls! I guess i missed that important change!

Tho I am having a hard time understand tesla. So when I WOUND... I add 2 more wounds to the squad totaling 3 wounds? or just 2?

Bone Crusher
07-12-2011, 01:02
Right the way it works with tesla is when you roll to hit and 6's rolled automatically generate two additional hits. So say I rolled five dice and got two misses, two sixes and one hit. You would have a total of seven hits, then you roll to wound. :P

gnarkill
07-12-2011, 16:31
Ah... sooo gay... now I dont even want my old immortals. The stock guns on them are weak then? Much better way to go with the tesla... gotta find some bits and cut some guns up!

Quick question about the Crypteks, I was in the hobby store yesterday and saw the blister (plastic blisters ftw) and I saw that he only had one weapon arm bit on all of them that were in the store. Is that the Eldritch Lance? Because if im playing a WYSIWYG tourny I would need it to be... and if its not the lance... how do I get a hold of the correct weapon?

madival
07-12-2011, 17:45
Ah... sooo gay... now I dont even want my old immortals. The stock guns on them are weak then? Much better way to go with the tesla... gotta find some bits and cut some guns up!


The reason the 500 point list had a pharon was so he could walk around with the immortals so the have relentless. also , all crytek weapons are staves, so technically, they are wysiwyg for everyone.

gnarkill
07-12-2011, 17:54
So do you consider Immortals with the guass and relentless to be better than Immortals with the Tesla?

Phaeron Setek
07-12-2011, 18:13
It depends on what you're trying to kill. Light to mid armor opponents (IG/DE/Nids/Orks) will reel from concentrated AP 4 fire, while if the army you're fighting has AV 3 or better (SM/GK/Aspect Warriors) you can spam wounds with Tesla.

One other advantage to Telsa is that you don't have to stick in a Phaeron to get the assault fire.

Lord Damocles
07-12-2011, 19:26
also , all crytek weapons are staves, so technically, they are wysiwyg for everyone.
Well, the staff the model carries is exactly like the diagram on pg.83 of a Staff of Light, so it's probably meant to be a Staff of Light.

Somehow I doubt most people would realise this - or if they did, care - though.

gnarkill
07-12-2011, 20:43
Okay, I only have a few final questions in planning an army!

1. Are there any REAL STANDOUT top performing Necron units?

2. Are there any FAIL Necron units to avoid?

3. Who is the best Cron NAMED Lord?

4. What am I taking for Heavy Support?

5. Immortals or Warriors?

6. Wraiths or Lychguard?

7. Is it just me, or do Destroyers suck?

Azazyll
07-12-2011, 21:30
What do people think of overlords in the catacomb command barge?

gnarkill
08-12-2011, 03:48
Help?

And yes I am aware there is a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge Necron Tactica post on all this... but Im looking for more of a personalized help here vs a giant debate.

Phaeron Setek
08-12-2011, 04:49
Okay, I only have a few final questions in planning an army!

1. Are there any REAL STANDOUT top performing Necron units?

2. Are there any FAIL Necron units to avoid?

3. Who is the best Cron NAMED Lord?

4. What am I taking for Heavy Support?

5. Immortals or Warriors?

6. Wraiths or Lychguard?

7. Is it just me, or do Destroyers suck?

All good questions, and I am going to preface my answers by saying this is just one man's opinion...

1 & 2) The new codex as a whole seems to be one of synergy. No one unit really stands above all others, but no unit is so lacking as to be failures.

A good combo I have seen is taking a Destroyer Lord and a unit of Triarch Praetorians with Particle casters and Voidblades. The TP can strip the armor down while the DL goes to town on the weakened tank with a Warscythe. Another is simply taking the Phaeron upgrade and sticking him in with Immortals or Deathmarks to add relentless move and fire to stock rapid fire weapons.

3) For my money, the best stand-alone is Imhotek. Starting the game in night fight with added lightning strikes is nice.

As for a combo, pairing Szeras with Anrakyr can potentially make one lucky warrior/immortal unit pretty scary with counter-attack, furious charge, and either +1 S, +1 T, or +1 BS.

Another fun combo is Orikan and a C'Tan with Writhing Worldscape. Turn one, your opponents entire army moves in dangerous terrain.

4) A Monolith first, then decide what your HS is for. Range = Doomsday Ark, Close fire support / anti-infantry = Annihilation Barge, Fast moving strafing = Doom Scythe

5) I'd say Immortals for rank and file (the only troops choice in the game w/ S 5 AP 4 guns stock), warriors for blobs and vehicle screens and deep strike mishap zones.

6) If you want fast movers that can strike first but don't get back up, then Wraiths. If you want a slightly more durable unit that will draw a lot of attention, Lychguard.

7) Not to me. They got nerfed on shooting (-1 S and -1 shot), but they got a points reduction and the ability to combine regulars and heavies. this means the squads can be taken for a given purpose, while still leaving the heavy support slots free.

Example:

Fighting marines => 5 destroyers [200 pts] => 10 AP 3 shots a turn
Fighting IG => 3 Heavy Destroyers [180 pts] => 3 lascannon shots per turn

Pair up a trio of Heavies with a Triarch Stalker and have a total of 4 twin-linked heavy gauss cannons.

rocdocta
08-12-2011, 07:58
Okay, I only have a few final questions in planning an army!

1. Are there any REAL STANDOUT top performing Necron units?

2. Are there any FAIL Necron units to avoid?

3. Who is the best Cron NAMED Lord?

4. What am I taking for Heavy Support?

5. Immortals or Warriors?

6. Wraiths or Lychguard?

7. Is it just me, or do Destroyers suck?

1. Overlord + CCB, scarabs, Ctan + writhing
these units will terrorise an oppo and screw with their plans.

2. necron bikers, havent used preatorians or lychies but they seem too expensive for the package

3. Depends on the list but the Traveller is my fav. esp on a CCB. - so useful. even vs nids 2 of these units will nail most MCs without a worry.

4. Depends on what you want. i take 3 spyders and 2 gun arks.

5. I take MSU warriors to cap. immortals are nice but i find more units for the points to be better. spread the risk out.

6. Wraiths. no comparison. faster, better save, 2 wounds, ignore terrain.

7. They dont suck. just need to be used correctly and there are better units for AT and AP. a standard destroyer is quite good vs MEQ+. compare them to an immortal with tesla.
- you get about 2.35 immortals per destroyer. so 5 destroyers = about 11.7 tesla.
- same range but the destroyers can redeploy faster and deep strike if need be.
- vs marines in the open
D 5 = 10 shots = 7 wound = 7 dead marines
I - tesla = 12 shots but should do 16 shots. = 10 wound = 3 dead marines
I - gauss = 12 shots = 9 wound = 3 dead marines

- vs marines in 4+ cover
D (5 models) = 10 shots = 7 wound = 3.5 dead marines
I - tesla (12 models) = 12 shots but should do 16 shots. = 10 wound = 3 dead marines
I - gauss (12 models)= 12 shots = 9 wound = 3 dead marines

- similar damage output in cover but the Immortals have 12 wounds vs the 5 wounds of the destroyers. out of cover the destroyers win by a large margin.
- the destroyers have T5 which means that
vs S6 weapons or less the destroyers take 1/6 less casualties from failed to wound rolls.
- but at the end of the day the destroyers arent scoring. so people may take immortals instead.

gnarkill
08-12-2011, 16:27
<----newb.... what is CCB? And what is MSU?

IcedCrow
08-12-2011, 16:38
MSU = multiple small units. Meaning for warriors, a bunch of 10-man units.

Ravenous
08-12-2011, 16:39
<----newb.... what is CCB? And what is MSU?

CCB = Catacomb Command Barge

Gangremond
08-12-2011, 16:42
CCB = catacomb command barge
MSU = multiple small units

boogaloo
08-12-2011, 20:36
So would you recomend Mech or Static Crons?

I like the idea of Ghost Arks (assuming I understand them properly), and the Night Scythes dont seem that good in comparison (unless you can do the mega super speed AND unload... heh, but maybe Im missing something), tho I guess if I wanna do Immortals I have no choice.

And yet another "probably obvious but I dont know newb question"... When you team up the Lord with Immortals or Warriors... can they tag team along in the transport?

honestly the best transport for immortals seems to be the VoD. Actually, can immortals high jack a ghost ark?

IcedCrow
08-12-2011, 21:06
No they cannot. ghost-arks only carry up to 10 warriors.

Scythe
09-12-2011, 08:50
MSU = multiple small units. Meaning for warriors, a bunch of 10-man units.

Actually, warriors are 5+ these days.

You could make a Necron army with only 2x5 warriors in troops.

Azulthar
09-12-2011, 09:28
Okay, I only have a few final questions in planning an army!
1. Are there any REAL STANDOUT top performing Necron units?
The Mindshackle Scarabs wargear is very good, so give it to your Lord(s). Wraiths are very efficient units as well. Scarabs can really be amazing against vehicles.

2. Are there any FAIL Necron units to avoid?
Praetorians, Lychguard and Destroyers seem a bit too expensive for what they do. I'd suggest Wraiths over Lychguard and especially over Praetorians.

3. Who is the best Cron NAMED Lord?
Haven't really given them all a try yet. So far I like fielding Amrakyr the Traveler in a Command Barge. He's a good anti-tank unit.

4. What am I taking for Heavy Support?
If you're relatively new I would stay away from the Doomscythe. It's very fragile for quite a high point cost. Tomb Spyders are a cheap way of adding a Monstrous Creature threat to your army. I like the Monolith as well, but wouldn't say it's a must-have. The Annihilation Barge is very cheap, and a good unit to spam if you want to distract your opponent from the real threats in your army :p

5. Immortals or Warriors?
So far I've always used both. I think Immortals are better point-for-point, but Warriors can add some cheaper bodies to your army. Also, as I always give my Immortals Tesla (I love to shoot and move), the Gauss from Necron Warriors is welcome as well. I always play my Necrons without transports, though this is as much for style-reasons as it is for game-reasons. Doesn't feel like I'm gimping myself too much though.

6. Wraiths or Lychguard?
Wraiths. Lychguard are perhaps better in a purely defensive/counter-attack role, but Wraiths can do a lot more.

7. Is it just me, or do Destroyers suck?
I'm not that impressed with them either.

IcedCrow
09-12-2011, 13:12
Actually, warriors are 5+ these days.

You could make a Necron army with only 2x5 warriors in troops.

My bad you're right.

Ravenous
09-12-2011, 15:11
Ive been trying to make Lychguard work but its just not happening, without a proper delivery system they are doomed to tank shock and avoidance, with a maximum threat range of 12" its silly. Small units can be killed easily and big units are a points sink.

I'd rather have 5 lords with mind shackles and warscythes in a ghost ark.

Zothos
09-12-2011, 15:52
I have actually found Praetorians to be absolutely awesome with rods of covenant. They have performed absolutely wonderfully for me. Expensive....but they are fast as hell and rip heavy infantry to shreds.

If you really want to get sick with it put a res orb destroyer lord with them.

Keep in mind that if you bring them you need to make severe alterations to an army due to the extreme point cost, but done properly they are much fun!

gnarkill
09-12-2011, 16:36
....balls, so what you are all saying is.... I need to go blow 120 bones on 6 wraiths?

Okay, my friend told me the wraiths are gonna be in plastic soon. Any word on when that will happen?

Also I would like to share my nub list with you all... what I wanna do in my 500, 750 and maybe 1000

500
12xImmortals w/ gauss (204)
10xWarriors (130)
Overlord (90)
-Mind Scarabs (15)
-Warscythe (10)
-Phaeron (20)
-Rez Orb (30)
...total is 499

For my 750 list (because there was no restriction at this point... so Ill cheese)

Ctan Shard (185)
-Gaze of Death (50)
-Pyreshards (15)
...total is 749

For my 1k list

10xImortals w/ Tesla (170)
Lord (35)
-Orb (30)
-Warscythe (10)
...total is 994

This is something I built... so I dont know how effective it will be.

boogaloo
09-12-2011, 17:30
@gnarkill, I'm pretty sure immortals cap out at 10, not twelve. so that list is technicaly illegal. Just a heads up. I mIght recomend replacing the second lord with a VoD on those Tesla Immortals for the oldschool cron feel. And that it's completely amazing. 230 for a squad that can deepstrike in any movement phase, and drop 20 shots at 24". You don't even have to get risky aggressive deepstrikes to make it work, AND you save 15 points. Add that the the 34 you save with the 2 immortals that have to go, and youve got 49 pts. for toys. Maybe a Spyder for mostrous?







I think that Lychguard are good with Dispersion shields for the invulnerable save, and S5 power weapons. Walk them up infront of warriors to give them 4+ cover and act as counter-assault.

I think praetorians seem better with the rending thingy. 1 extra attck goes a long way when you're stuck in combat. It also gives them more utility against tougher monsters, and medium tanks. Which is really what you need your assault units there for. If they can't handle something T6 or lower with shooting, Praetorians aren't going to help you out. But they will definitely help bring down that wraithlord, and even if he kills your praetorians, he has no armour save, and you can bring down those last few wounds with immortals.

gnarkill
09-12-2011, 17:36
ah, so it is >_<

Ill just swap out the immortals for some more warriors then

boogaloo
09-12-2011, 17:42
I think that Lychguard are good with Dispersion shields for the invulnerable save, and S5 power weapons. Walk them up infront of warriors to give them 4+ cover and act as counter-assault.

I think praetorians seem better with the rending thingy. 1 extra attck goes a long way when you're stuck in combat. It also gives them more utility against tougher monsters, and medium tanks. Which is really what you need your assault units there for. If they can't handle something T6 or lower with shooting, Praetorians aren't going to help you out. But they will definitely help bring down that wraithlord, and even if he kills your praetorians, he has no armour save, and you can bring down those last few wounds with immortals.

Ravenous
10-12-2011, 03:49
Nah, in small units they are useless, and the more points invested is like throwing points into a flaming hole of useless. You're better off using blocking tactics.