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Eternus
07-12-2011, 14:16
Ok, I am up to my eyeballs in Storm of Chaos fluff at the moment, and am sick and tired of reliving Archaons defeat at the hands of Grimgor in the fluff. Exactly which special character is the hardest in a fight? In a one on one celebrity deathmatch style bout, which Special Character would come out on top? Is it Archaon, or Grimgor, or Karl Franz? Tyrion maybe?

I guess we should consider which characters could hack it without their mount as well, for those who have them...what do you think?

Novrain
07-12-2011, 14:25
Thorgrim Grudgebearer all the way!

Dreadlordpaul
07-12-2011, 14:27
Teclis just because he will blast u with magic

Eternus
07-12-2011, 14:35
Thorgrim Grudgebearer all the way!

Possibly. Has some really powerful runic items.


Teclis just because he will blast u with magic

Not in a stand up fight. At close range, how reliably could Teclis kill Archaon before the Everchosen chopped him into tiny pieces? I think Teclis is only really powerful when left to cast spells, but he wouldn't survive one round with either Archaon or Thorgrim I think.

Crovax20
07-12-2011, 14:38
Dunno, but Settra strikes me as a pretty bad ass character. If he survives the first assault on his life that is with his low iniative of 3.

Lordy
07-12-2011, 14:39
Kholek

I like chicken.

Eternus
07-12-2011, 14:41
I think this needs some dice rolling. Not Math Hammer, because the dice gods often laugh at your 'odds' and 'percentages', but actual dice rolling.

Crovax20
07-12-2011, 15:04
Well I just so happen to have Grimgor and Settra right here.

Grimgor goes first and hits 3 out of 5 attacks, with the reroll he ends up with 4 out of 5 attacks. He needs 2+ to wound now and out of his 4 attacks we got 3 wounds. Settra takes his wardsaves and saves 2. 1 wound on Settra

Settra strikes back and hits with 3 attacks and deals 2 wounds. Grimgors wardsaves 1 of thsoe attacks and recieves 1 wound.

Grimgor goes at it again and hits with all attacks. However he massively flukes his attacks and only does 2 wounds. Settra makes both his wardsaves.

Settra strikes back and hits with only 1 attack, which wounds. Grimgor fails to save it and loses another wound.

Grimgor has 1 wound left now, settra has 2 wounds remaining.

Grimgor hits all his attacks again, but manages only 3 wounds. Settra saves 1 of them, but he only had 2 wounds left and is slain.

The curse does 6 hits against Grimgor of which 4 wound. Grimgor gets a 3+ armorsave though, and fails 1. His wardsave fails him and Grimgor also is slain.

Mutual destruction.

a18no
07-12-2011, 15:09
I've made some math before. Tyrion was better than Grimgor. Behing a Mvt10, he can reach almost anyone. Got a good armor, regen combine with dragon armor. ASF Ini 10, WS very high. Miss some attack though to really kill something, but will re-roll all turn against anyone.

Malekith is actually pretty solid if he can destroy your magic weapon before you strike.

thesheriff
07-12-2011, 15:11
Skulltaker on Juggernaught will give most charecters without ASF a good run for there money.....

thesheriff

Eternus
07-12-2011, 15:22
What about Grimgor vs Archaon, anyone know how that pans out in practice?

Gharnukk
07-12-2011, 15:28
I would bet on Archaon

The Low King
07-12-2011, 15:37
Archaon vs Thorgrim tends to be pretty balanced, Thorgrim has the defence and Archaon the attack....

However, Thorgrim has a bit of leeway for bad rolling because of his 7 wounds whilst a bad roll from Archaon could lose him the combat (say he wounds himself)

boli
07-12-2011, 15:41
Queek Headtaker is pretty powerful against dwaves... a bit too powerful tbh

The Low King
07-12-2011, 15:48
can someone who has all the books (or even one) post a summary of each characters abilities please?

Thorgrim:

Dwarf Lord stats (higher initiative) and an extra 3 wounds from the throne.

He then has a +1 armour save, is immune to Poison/killing blow.
He has a 4+ ward save
His weapon always wounds on a 2+, ignores armour saves and does D3 wounds (d6 vs trolls/giants).
His throne bearers add another 4 WS5, S4 attacks.
Him and any unit he joines have Hatred and are stubborn/immune to fear/terror.

He is a beast....

Sqallum
07-12-2011, 15:55
Skarbrand. Nothing else stands a chance in hell. :p 7 attacks (?) at WS10, I 10 and many other abilities will simply squish ANYTING
Sqallum

BigbyWolf
07-12-2011, 16:08
Don't forget that the Grimgor that decked Archaon was a lot better than the current Grimgor.

Kholek in a straight up brawl would win nowadays though.

The Low King
07-12-2011, 16:25
Skarbrand. Nothing else stands a chance in hell. :p 7 attacks (?) at WS10, I 10 and many other abilities will simply squish ANYTING
Sqallum

what strength though?

TheOneHawk
07-12-2011, 16:34
Kholek is nasty but I took him to a lord battle once and he kinda sucked. No wardsave and low Initiative meant he died before he swung most times. If he got to swing he oneshotted most stuff, but that was a big if.

Eternus
07-12-2011, 16:41
Kholek is nasty but I took him to a lord battle once and he kinda sucked. No wardsave and low Initiative meant he died before he swung most times. If he got to swing he oneshotted most stuff, but that was a big if.

This is true. Many special characters either have monstrously powerful weapons, or amazingly tough armour, or both. Monsters tend to lack this kind of kit because they already have loads of attacks and high stats, but I'd rather have the shiny stuff vs other special characters.

The Low King
07-12-2011, 16:43
my dwarf lord....cannons......more cannons...bolt throwers.......large numbers of high strength attacks

all of the above

Lordy
07-12-2011, 16:45
He said in a lord battle.

How many lord cannons do you know of it the dwarf book?!?!?!?

The Low King
07-12-2011, 16:50
all of them. My dwarf lord then, he is Strength 8 and does D6 wounds

TheOneHawk
07-12-2011, 16:54
Archaon would probably be one of the hardest. Not a lot of wounds, but 10 attacks at WS9, S5 ignoring armour saves, can't ever be wounded on a 2+ or autowounded, a 1+ armour save and a 3+ ward save, not to mention level 2 caster and a -1 to hit.

Lordy
07-12-2011, 17:04
all of them. My dwarf lord then, he is Strength 8 and does D6 wounds

You're dwarf lord would get beaten down like a little child against Kholek....

popisdead
07-12-2011, 17:05
Kholek

I like chicken.

That's got my vote.

BigbyWolf
07-12-2011, 17:08
Does someone have the WOC book to hand? If so, what's the I of Kholek.

I'd assume it's higher than a dwarf lord or GUO. If so, then he should be winning, as he has a shedload of attacks, at S8(?) and d6(?) wounds.

Also, can he use his lightning strike in combat?

TheOneHawk
07-12-2011, 17:10
He cannot use his lightning strike in combat, and he's I1

TheOneHawk
07-12-2011, 17:10
7 attacks, strength 8 and d3 wounds.

The Low King
07-12-2011, 17:19
You're dwarf lord would get beaten down like a little child against Kholek....

i dont think so...

I strike first with 4 attacks. Average of 2 hit, wound on a 2+...no armour save. Each does D6 wounds. I have a decent chance of killing him before he strikes.

BigbyWolf
07-12-2011, 17:19
He cannot use his lightning strike in combat, and he's I1

Hmmm...perhaps not then. :p

TheOneHawk
07-12-2011, 17:27
That said, I also once fielded him in an actual game, and he killed everything he touched. He's just not the hardest lord there is.

Lordy
07-12-2011, 18:52
i dont think so...

I strike first with 4 attacks. Average of 2 hit, wound on a 2+...no armour save. Each does D6 wounds. I have a decent chance of killing him before he strikes.

You'd better hope you kill him then, his thunderstomp alone could wreak you, never mind his 7 S8 attacks doing D3 wounds :D

Bloodmire
07-12-2011, 19:01
Hmm you could make a Vampire Lord, with the right powers and the Frostblade... one failed save is an auto-death.

Cambion Daystar
07-12-2011, 19:12
You'd better hope you kill him then, his thunderstomp alone could wreak you, never mind his 7 S8 attacks doing D3 wounds :D
Meh, he is breakfast for a dwarf lord ;)

Offense: weapon rune that gives double strength (makes him S8 vs T5+) and +1 attack rune
Defense: armour rune that makes S>5 count as 5, and reroll fail armour saves + shieldbearers + shield.

This gives 5 S8 attacks, rerollable 3+ save (after modifiers). All this for the lovely price of 298 points, so slightly below half Kholeks pointcost. Add stubborn hammers so he doesn't have to walk alone across the battlefield :D

Mathhammer:
Dwarfs does 2.08 wounds/player turn (i'm not including the shieldbearers), Kholek does 0.3 wounds/player turn.
Dwarf needs 4 player turns to down Kholek, while Kholek needs 10 player turns.

Sqallum
07-12-2011, 19:32
Skarbrand would obviously win. He has 8 attacks! S6, T6, I think a 4+ ward, I10, WS10
Sqallum

Tuttivillus
07-12-2011, 20:36
Properly kitted Archlector of Sigmar with Vanhorstmann's Speculum will smash them all :D LOL

calnen
07-12-2011, 20:54
Properly kitted Archlector of Sigmar with Vanhorstmann's Speculum will smash them all :D LOL

They can always refuse the challenge. The best the archlector can really do is a draw.


Conclusion? Did we decide whether Thorgrim or Archaon had the better odds?

Eternus
07-12-2011, 20:56
They can always refuse the challenge. The best the archlector can really do is a draw.


Conclusion? Did we decide whether Thorgrim or Archaon had the better odds?

Try it out.

Freman Bloodglaive
07-12-2011, 21:24
I'm pretty sure you can't refuse a challenge if you're by yourself.

I'm also sure that a Chaos god would frown on one of his followers going all chicken like that.

Arch Lector, sword of fate, heavy armour, gorgon shield, van horstmann's speculum, war alter.

He challenges. You have one strength 4, initiative 4 attack with whatever special effects your weapon delivers. He has a 3+ armour save and 4+ ward from the alter.

He gets whatever your base stats are for WS, I, S, T, and A. He wounds on a 2+, ignores your armour save and does D3 wounds.

All for the princely sum of 326 points.

Sure there are harder units in the game, but for the specific task of mano a mano fighting he's very hard to beat for his price. In an Empire army he's there because of his 18 inch leadership bubble on the alter and his support light spells. That he can be a tough hombre is just a bit on the side.

A Bloodthirster with the armour of "your magic weapon doesn't work" would negate his sword, but the Lector is going to love the Bloodthirster's stats. You can imagine the Lector looking at his sword, shaking his head, then rolling up his sleeves and beating the Bloodthirster to death with a handy stick.

Eternus
07-12-2011, 21:28
I don't think you can refuse a challenge if you can't move to a 'non-fighting' position.

Lordy
07-12-2011, 21:35
Meh, he is breakfast for a dwarf lord ;)

Offense: weapon rune that gives double strength (makes him S8 vs T5+) and +1 attack rune
Defense: armour rune that makes S>5 count as 5, and reroll fail armour saves + shieldbearers + shield.

This gives 5 S8 attacks, rerollable 3+ save (after modifiers). All this for the lovely price of 298 points, so slightly below half Kholeks pointcost. Add stubborn hammers so he doesn't have to walk alone across the battlefield :D

Mathhammer:
Dwarfs does 2.08 wounds/player turn (i'm not including the shieldbearers), Kholek does 0.3 wounds/player turn.
Dwarf needs 4 player turns to down Kholek, while Kholek needs 10 player turns.

Is that setup even legal, I don't know Dwarfs very well but I though you could only use one rune from each section?

Novrain
07-12-2011, 21:38
Up to three of each type of runes.

muppet515
07-12-2011, 21:59
Surely Galrauch has to be in with a chance? Soften you up with magic + multiple breath weapons (not all in the same turn, obviously) then walk in a eat what's left.

mistrmoon
07-12-2011, 22:46
Gentlemen (and lady(ies?)) my i draw your attention to this fine fellow:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=30th+anniversary+grombrindal&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1137&bih=914&tbm=isch&tbnid=fcatX97tiMWHsM:&imgrefurl=http://diehardgamefan.com/2011/11/18/life-during-war-games-11-18-2011/&docid=X03vbMfqChl80M&imgurl=http://diehardgamefan.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/whitedwarflimited.jpg&w=574&h=551&ei=b-zfTpnhI-KqiQKnrZnhDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=553&vpy=130&dur=2483&hovh=220&hovw=229&tx=104&ty=102&sig=108847116799127748010&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=126&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0

I think he would likely pants all challengers. This edition he loses his killing blow immunity so skulltaker gives him a scare but that's about it, He'll kill most things in a single round of combat.




Is that setup even legal, I don't know Dwarfs very well but I though you could only use one rune from each section?

Yup sure is, I've seen this build take a dark insanity blood thister apart over the course of several turns.

Tuttivillus
07-12-2011, 22:50
They can always refuse the challenge. The best the archlector can really do is a draw.


not in a stand up fight, as mentioned earlier:rolleyes:

AlphariusOmegon20
07-12-2011, 22:52
I'm actually surprised no one's mentioned Taurox the Brass Bull.

1+ Armor, M6, WS6, S6, W5, I5, A7 (Frenzy adds 1), D3+1 Impact Hits on the turns he charges.

No armor save against his axes. ( Sorry Dwarf Lord, your rerollable armor means nothing.)

Comes in at 335 pts. :D


Gentlemen (and lady(ies?)) my i draw your attention to this fine fellow:

http://www.google.ca/imgres?q=30th+anniversary+grombrindal&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1137&bih=914&tbm=isch&tbnid=fcatX97tiMWHsM:&imgrefurl=http://diehardgamefan.com/2011/11/18/life-during-war-games-11-18-2011/&docid=X03vbMfqChl80M&imgurl=http://diehardgamefan.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/whitedwarflimited.jpg&w=574&h=551&ei=b-zfTpnhI-KqiQKnrZnhDg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=553&vpy=130&dur=2483&hovh=220&hovw=229&tx=104&ty=102&sig=108847116799127748010&page=1&tbnh=121&tbnw=126&start=0&ndsp=33&ved=1t:429,r:3,s:0

I think he would likely pants all challengers. This edition he loses his killing blow immunity so skulltaker gives him a scare but that's about it, He'll kill most things in a single round of combat.


LOL if we're going there, then I'll go here (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1450019_Harry_the_Hammer_Rules_and_Background.pdf ). I've actually seen him pants the WD in the ground.

He's the nastiest of the nasty.

BlackVomit
07-12-2011, 23:04
Great Unclean One, Balesword and whatever you want....

Liber
07-12-2011, 23:23
Did we decide whether Thorgrim or Archaon had the better odds?


Thorgrim owns Archaon. Its not even close.

That said, a Greater Demon with 50+ points of gear will own any and all special characters...i mean they will slaughter Thorgrim/Malekith/Archaon...all of them and for less points.

inq.serge
08-12-2011, 00:07
Against anything slower than I6: Galrauch.

Just challenge and use the breath of change in CC. Few things can survive 2d6 T tests or DIE with no saves whatsoever.

Nubl0
08-12-2011, 01:00
I take the unkillable dreadlord with whip. I beat you all.


Pendant FTW!

vinny t
08-12-2011, 01:40
Gaulrach kills the pendant lord with no problems. 2d6 T tests or take wounds basically obliterates elves. The pendant doesn't help against attacks with no strength.

H33D
08-12-2011, 02:27
I've taken Thorgrim against Archaon three times and while it is usually a war of attrition, Thorgrim has always won.

I haven't taken him against any Greater Daemons, Dragons, or Elves that were Dwarf enough to face him in hand to hand combat.

Thorgrim wins in my book so far. If an opponent here finally gains the courage to attempt to beat him then perhaps Archaon will stop being the only enemy I face who has any honor, no matter how he dies.

That being said, Gaulrach (sp?) would be extremely lucky to kill Thorgrim with his breath of change as Thorgrim has 7 wounds.

Other than the Greater Daemons, Kholek is a close contender I would say. I've never actually seen him fielded here.

I think Thorgrim would have trouble with Greater Daemons though, especially a Bloodthirster with obsidian armor.

A typical Dwarf Lord would stand a fair chance with a mere great weapon and a highly defensive armor/talisman combination such as stone/resistance/preservation and spite/furnace/luck methinks:

A bloodthirster would do just under a single wound with his normal attacks and another one again with his thunderstomp. A Dwarf Lord would deal 1 or 2 wounds per turn. A Bloodthirster's 5 wounds would probably be his road to victory!

A Great Unclean One with a Balesword and Pestilent Mucus however... that is a job for a cannon. Even Thorgrim doesn't have that many wounds...

Arijharn
08-12-2011, 05:20
Skarbrand would obviously win. He has 8 attacks! S6, T6, I think a 4+ ward, I10, WS10
Sqallum

Skarbrand actually has 9 attacks. 7 base; +1 for two close combat weapons (no armour saves allowed) +1 for Frenzy.

S6, T6, hatred and a S5 Breath Weapon.

He only has a 5+ Daemonic Ward save though.

Sh4d0w
08-12-2011, 08:31
People people people, we've had many of these threads they all pan out the same, it goes Thorek>Kholek>Archaon...........the rest are pretty far away

Cambion Daystar
08-12-2011, 08:41
No armor save against his axes. ( Sorry Dwarf Lord, your rerollable armor means nothing.)

That is kinda his weak point, things that ignore armour saves regardless of strength.

Eternus
08-12-2011, 08:42
People people people, we've had many of these threads they all pan out the same, it goes Thorek>Kholek>Archaon...........the rest are pretty far away

Do you mean:

Thorgrim>Kholek>Archaon?

If so, then I think you're probably right, in which case the whole thing in the Storm of Chaos about Grimgor kicking Archaon's ass is just codswhollop, unless it's justfied by Archaon having just had to fight Valten, then Luthor Huss, but still, he was in pretty good shape after that, and Grimgor just batted him around like a rag doll. The fluff really doesn't fit the game rules at all.

BigbyWolf
08-12-2011, 10:20
The fluff really doesn't fit the game rules at all.

It never has...

inq.serge
08-12-2011, 17:41
Technically, Galrauch would own both kholek and thorgrim, but maybe not archaon, making this kind of a Rock (Thorgrim) Paper(Galrauch) Scissor (Archaon).

Eternus
08-12-2011, 18:57
Technically, Galrauch would own both kholek and thorgrim, but maybe not archaon, making this kind of a Rock (Thorgrim) Paper(Galrauch) Scissor (Archaon).

Well that's an answer I can live with, because I don't like the idea of a single character being unbeatable! Otherwise you end up with a 7th edition Heavy Cav situation where they just smash everything to oblivion without breaking a sweat.

Rock-paper-scissors is a good place to be, and it runs through 8th like seaside towns through rock.

Imp of High Noon
08-12-2011, 19:13
Not even an honourable mention for Lord Skrolk, the toughness 5, instant death rat?

Cambion Daystar
08-12-2011, 19:28
The instant death test requires a toughness test, so characters mentioned here only fail then on a 6. And he has no defence that is worth mentioning...

Imp of High Noon
08-12-2011, 20:11
Thats what "Wither" is for.

Cormag
08-12-2011, 20:42
The Green Knight....because no matter how many times you kill him...he keeps coming back...


A lot like Herpes.

VoodooJanus
08-12-2011, 20:55
He's not the hardest, but in these 1 on 1 battles Orion is actually pretty decent (although not for the points.) I'd also like to submit an alter highborn with annoyance, the other trickster's shard and the giant blade. He pretty much gets killed with high volume, high initiative attacks, but he's really good against high strength, low initiative type ones.

Had to put a few Wood Elves into the mix :p

H33D
09-12-2011, 08:46
Technically, Galrauch would own both kholek and thorgrim, but maybe not archaon, making this kind of a Rock (Thorgrim) Paper(Galrauch) Scissor (Archaon).

Galrauch would cause about 1 and a half wounds against Thorgrim per turn including both breath weapons and thunderstomp. The alternative would be to use the breath of change and pray Thorgrim rolls a 6 and fails.

Thorgrim would cause an average of 5 wounds against Galrauch on the first turn (hatred) and probably more like 3-4 wounds each turn after.

Thorgrim survives 5 rounds of combat, Galrauch survives 2.

Greater Daemons > Thorgrim > Archaon > Galrauch.

Eternus
09-12-2011, 09:04
What do you think about the idea of giving special characters ratings for offense, defence and a total of the two to give an odea of their overall power vs other special characters in a straight up fight? Then they could be graded. Doesn't mean that the highest rated character is the best, just that they would be the likely winner in a straight up one on one fight.

Special mentions should be included for characters that have a particular 'bogey enemy'.

Dreadlordpaul
09-12-2011, 09:36
I would say Vlad is a mix of defence and offence

Eternus
09-12-2011, 09:54
So, scoring out of 10 for offence and defence, with the most powerful special character for each category being considered a 10, how does Vlad score?

For that matter, which special character has the greatest offensive capability vs other characters, and which has the greatest defensive capability vs other characters? I doubt that a single special character has both the greatest offensive and defensive capabilities.

Dreadlordpaul
09-12-2011, 10:00
I would say hes a 5 for each hes not the greatest in either offence or defence but he can heal himself and come back to life :)

Arijharn
09-12-2011, 11:24
He can only come back to life once and only in a unit though.

Gaargod
09-12-2011, 11:45
Galrauch is too much of a fluke. You can very easily walk up to any character in the game, roll average for your breath of change then watch them fall over - the maths is in your favour (average of 7 hits, only need to fail 1 to die). Equally, you walk up, fail your breath weapon, then probably die - 6 S6 attacks is nice and all, but any offensively based lord will hand your ass to you.
He is great for just being 'that one character' in these sorts of things though.



Oh, and as a general rule for the 'arena of death' things, items like the Speculum, Sword of Fate, Obsidian Armour and Annoyance of Netlings usually get banned, precisely because they're silly in an all-challenge environment. SCs get a pass on whatever they're carrying, because they're stuck with it.

Thorgrim usually wins these things because of his silly axe of death combined with W7 1+/4++, making him both killy and hard to kill. Of course, if you're allowing items like Obsidian Armour, it does not go well for him.

Eternus
09-12-2011, 11:59
Well, as anyone can come up with a mean combo of magic items for a run of the mill character, this thing should just be about special characters, the plot drivers of the background.

Pulstar
09-12-2011, 12:01
Rock-paper-scissors is a good place to be, and it runs through 8th like seaside towns through rock.

Rock is fine. Nerf Scissors.
-Paper

inq.serge
09-12-2011, 18:06
The alternative would be to use the breath of change and pray Thorgrim rolls a 6 and fails.


He has to fail on at least one of 2d6 T Tests to die. He'll die on average.

H33D
09-12-2011, 20:42
Yeah I think I misread it. I was thinking if you were hit by it any number of times you just took a single test to see if you were removed but looking back it might not be that way...

H33D
09-12-2011, 20:46
So, scoring out of 10 for offence and defence, with the most powerful special character for each category being considered a 10, how does Vlad score?

For that matter, which special character has the greatest offensive capability vs other characters, and which has the greatest defensive capability vs other characters? I doubt that a single special character has both the greatest offensive and defensive capabilities.

I'll do Thorgrim.

Offense: 9.0

Thorgrim has Hatred, allows no armor saves, wounds on a 2+, and causes D3 wounds. A very nasty combination. Also 4 additional WS4 S4 attacks... But with only 4 attacks and only Hatred for the first round and other special characters with higher Weapon Skill and a bucketload of high strength no armor save attacks he is probably not quite the best.

Defense: 9.5

Thorgrim has the best for Defense. 7 wounds, T5, 1+ armor, 4+ ward, and immunity to Killing Blow and Poison. Other characters have T6 and higher so I gave him a 9.5 instead of a 10. Even Archaon has a hard time putting wounds on this guy.

N810
09-12-2011, 20:52
Think Chakax might deserve an honerable mention,
since his ability to nullify magic weapons and being rather hard to
hit to to rerolling.

H33D
10-12-2011, 23:32
Gorbad has really good offense. I wiped out a black dragon on the first round of combat but failed to kill the unkillable dreadlord on top. He gets somewhere around 4 or 5 ASF no armor saves, D3 wounds attacks. S5 normally, S6 the first round of combat. Only a 3+ armor save though but I'd like to see any character stand up to that. I'm sure even Grimgor would be wiped out by that though he would probably take Gorbad out in return as they would strike each other simultaneously.

The Low King
10-12-2011, 23:44
4 attacks, hit Thorgrim on 4s (rerolling), wound him on 3s, 4+ ward save.

So 2 hits, 3 on reroll. 2 wounds. 1 gets past ward. Thorgrim has 7 wounds.

Gorbad is dead on the attacks back.

H33D
11-12-2011, 03:47
Oh yeah I don't doubt Thorgrim >>>>>>> Gorbad. Gorbad's offense is surely one of the best though. Characters like Thorgrim with ridiculous offense and defense will stand up to just about anyone short of a Greater Daemon or Galrauch. Gorbad will mince just about anybody else though before they get a chance to whallop him.

Sh4d0w
13-12-2011, 06:55
Actually fair point about the greater daemons, me and my mates have done the maths of all the characters, it goes like this....Thorgrim>Valten of sigmar>KOS with spirit swallower>Kholek>Archaon...of course Kholek downs the KOS every time however the KOS can sometimes even beat Thorgrim so....circles agian XD

Basically you can always spot a good 1v1 character when you see a weapon with D3 wounds ;)

BlackJuju
13-12-2011, 08:02
Dont compare general lords.
Anyway, Skulltaker will give Archon a nice bloody fight.

Forsworn
13-12-2011, 23:51
From far away enough, Alith Anar. Moonbow will basically be 2+ to hit, D6 wounds, S6. Couple of shots from very very far away. . . . there's a chance.

Sadly, High Elf characters aren't that great. A few (Caradryan the Challenge Monkey) might be able to get the kill by luck, but we are in general too squishy a bunch. :(

Tuttivillus
14-12-2011, 14:08
and what about tyrion? I don't have a book with me, but i remember that he was quite a punch?

Infern0
14-12-2011, 14:19
The White Dwarf with Gotrek and Bugman:p

Memnos
14-12-2011, 14:29
Why just Special Characters? Wouldn't a Bloodthirster with the Obsidian Armor, eternal hatred and S7 flaming attacks beat the tar out of most special characters?

WS 10, BS 0 S: 6(7) T: 6 W: 5 I: 9 A: 7 LD: 9.

Is there really a lot out there that can go toe to toe with him, knowing their magic weapons don't work?

TheOneHawk
14-12-2011, 19:03
The reason we're ignoring standard characters is because some items are just so perfect for a challenge that it's rather unfair. BTW, Arch Lector with Van Horstmann's Speculum would beat the crap out of that bloodthirster.

valle
14-12-2011, 20:49
I'm actually surprised no one's mentioned Taurox the Brass Bull.

1+ Armor, M6, WS6, S6, W5, I5, A7 (Frenzy adds 1), D3+1 Impact Hits on the turns he charges.

No armor save against his axes. ( Sorry Dwarf Lord, your rerollable armor means nothing.)

Comes in at 335 pts. :D



LOL if we're going there, then I'll go here (http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1450019_Harry_the_Hammer_Rules_and_Background.pdf ). I've actually seen him pants the WD in the ground.

He's the nastiest of the nasty.

Those rules are really bad... Causes terror in undead? Give me a break, thats just lazy and dont make sense whatsoever. How can you make the dead fear, when all that is holding them together is magic?

Havock
14-12-2011, 20:49
Why just Special Characters? Wouldn't a Bloodthirster with the Obsidian Armor, eternal hatred and S7 flaming attacks beat the tar out of most special characters?

WS 10, BS 0 S: 6(7) T: 6 W: 5 I: 9 A: 7 LD: 9.

Is there really a lot out there that can go toe to toe with him, knowing their magic weapons don't work?

Except those of the fighty high elf variety.
Obsidian Armor was a brainfart :p

As long as Galrauch gets to strike there is a good chance whatever opposing him will die. ie. he has a decent chance of killing that thirster (say you score 6 hits, wound 4 and he saves none, Galrauch still has two wounds, attacks you for a possible one wound and breathes on you for 2d6 toughness-tests-or-die :p)

Rogzor87
15-12-2011, 00:38
I vote on Krom.

peterjameslewis711
15-12-2011, 00:43
Id have thought kholek or archaon would be the top tier characters in this sorta thing, dunno how its best to do this if you were doing an arena of death type of thing like white dwarf did a few years ago when you ended up with snitch coming against kroak in the final and kroak zapping him with magic from the opposite end of the table, but in a 1on1 in combat id say kholek, thats where my money would be.

TheOneHawk
15-12-2011, 08:43
Kholek kills anything he gets to attack, but he never gets to attack against the top end characters. Archaon, Thorgrim and Galrauch will all kill him in one round.

Dreadlordpaul
15-12-2011, 08:46
Crom would kick all of them back to where they came from

Memnos
15-12-2011, 10:15
Galrauch should definitely kill the Bloodthirster, but would in turn die to most of the multiple wound-causing types.

So I call Tamurkhan on Toad Dragon. ;)


Except those of the fighty high elf variety.
Obsidian Armor was a brainfart :p

As long as Galrauch gets to strike there is a good chance whatever opposing him will die. ie. he has a decent chance of killing that thirster (say you score 6 hits, wound 4 and he saves none, Galrauch still has two wounds, attacks you for a possible one wound and breathes on you for 2d6 toughness-tests-or-die :p)