PDA

View Full Version : Dark Eldar Deepstrike, worth it?



DarkLordVerjal
09-12-2011, 00:40
So, I finally have the base of my Dark Eldar army, and I'm very excited to use it soon. I am already planning my second round of buying, and was hoping to get a view of is worth it.

Duke Sliscus, The Serpent, for those of you don't know he grants Raiders, Ravagers, and Venoms Deep Strike. His stats and abilities seem solid, but the biggest reason I would take him would be to have my squads of Wyches and Incubi be at the enemies doorstep before any shots are fired.

My 1 question is, is this a worthwhile investment at 150pts, so I was hoping for some more veteran critique.
And as a secondary question, if his squad came in first while the rest of the units are in reserve, do those units die? Or are they allowed to deep strike later despite Sliscus being gone?

Col. Dash
09-12-2011, 00:53
He is the basis of my list. It has its pluses and negatives like any army. Brings a crap ton of AT to the field added to 3 Razorwings and most bases are covered. Absolutely destroys low model count armies. gotta deal with the randomness of reserves though, not a big deal for me since almost every army I play is based on DSing.

Shamana
09-12-2011, 10:14
Some DEldar models are fairly big, so I would be careful deepstriking a, say, raider or a ravager. A few venoms with trueborn might be a different thing, though ;). I'd say Il Duce is good enough for his points anyway, the DS is a bonus.

Mirbeau
09-12-2011, 10:24
Unfortunatly i believe the answer situational. against tough lista, you need to really concentrate fire due to the expense of our units, you want as many guns as possible to dominate an area from near enough the start, which is difficult if your force is turning ip in dribs and drabs.
For pick-up games i generally play an assault based force, using portals or deepstrike, and it is invalauable against heavy shooting, poor combat armies like tau or guard.hope that helps!

Aluinn
09-12-2011, 10:25
Deep striking is always risky for anyone (who isn't in a Drop Pod, at least :)), and due to DE being rather fragile, that risk is only greater for them since even if they don't suffer a mishap, being (potentially) left in an exposed position could be devastating and often is. Honestly, I've never seen a DE deep strike work out well, and wouldn't try it myself except perhaps with suicidal 5-man, double-heat-lance Scourges--even then, those units are pretty expensive to throw away and I'd rather use turbo-boosting Reavers to achieve a similar result more reliably.

In most cases it seems much better (read: safer and more reliable) to simply reserve things. For example, in the case of something like a Ravager, well, it has 36" range and can move 12" and still fire all of its weapons, so bringing it in from your board edge will likely achieve similar results to deep striking it with vastly less risk. Sure, there's less chance that it will be able to fire on side or rear armor, but IMO that's more than made up for by the fact that it will be in a more concealed position, further from the enemy, and with no chance of a mishap or a terrible scatter that lands it right next to a melta squad or something (quite likely given the prevalence of melta in many armies).

However, Duke Sliscus is still great. It's just that I think his main bonuses are the buff to poisoned shooting and the double roll for combat drugs. I'd advise treating the DS ability as an extremely situational, optional bonus that you can use on the rare occasion that someone's deployment seems to leave them super vulnerable to it, maybe.

Corvus Corone
09-12-2011, 11:48
I always saw the DS option on sliscus as a silver lining to an otherwise golden cloud - the duke is worth it even if you never use this.

It may be useful, now and again, and I love having the utility there, but as others have said, it's very risky with DE.

I'd judge it on a case by case basis and ensure your army is apt to fight without it. If the table and opposition look to favor a DS, go for it. If not, then hey, just don't.

Finally, remember you don't have to be all in. Sometimes just a venom of blasters in DS reserve makes your opponent twitchy and can pay big.

Lathrael
09-12-2011, 12:31
Deep strike is fine with duke for ones with shooty cargo. But i never use duke and always pay cost of deep strike for all of my ravagers, and i usually go for reserves. They are bad for hanging around and they have better chances for doing their job before getting blown with deep strike, thanks to aerial assault.

BigHammer
09-12-2011, 13:29
He is the better of the two deepstrike options for DE vehicles, at least for DS transports; with the retrofire jets you can't disembark from a transport, whereas with the Duke you can. You might not want to, of course, and the difference is so minimal that it'll hardly matter, but it is there.

That said, I agree with the other replies; the Duke is worth his points with or without the DS vehicles.

Col. Dash
09-12-2011, 13:39
We might be playing wrong but we always used the base for DSing the skimmers. Put the base down, roll the scatter, place the model on the base. Mishaps are rare and its not hard to be in pistol range for blast pistols. The real problem is this list gives up KP almost as bad as an IG list.

the_picto
09-12-2011, 15:13
Can anyone give an example of a good list to put the duke in? I assume one unit of warriors to buff their poison and loads of wyches and hellions (possibly with the barron). While I love the idea of reavers I don't care so much for their drugs, since only the free pain token is really any use to them.

Corvus Corone
09-12-2011, 15:19
I'm building a sliscus list. Its 1500pts.

-Sliscus

-9trueborn w/ 7 carbines, 2 scannons, raider w/ NS FF

-10 warriors, blaster + scannon, Raider w/ NS
-10 Wyches, 2shardnet + impaler, hekatrix w/ power W, raider
-10 Wyches, 2shardnet + impaler, hekatrix w/ power W, raider

-Ravager
-Ravager

-6 Reavers w/ 2 heat lance

I can't decide whether the trueborn massacre unit are too much, and I should take two venoms of troops or a blasterborn venom and some other stuff instead.

Col. Dash
09-12-2011, 15:21
In my list which performs fairly well I have off hand:
Duke
5 or 6 units of warriors with a blaster and blaster pistol in a raider
2 or 3 units of blasterborn in raiders
3 Razorwings with dissies and splinter cannon upgrade

Occasionally I will bring 2 trueborn and an Incubi squad in a venom.
Like I said, it bleeds KP but has the firepower to stop most lists, especially elite troop lists like Sang guard and GK(if he doesnt have WQ).
Against lists like GK with warp quake I will reserve everything instead and pick them off at a distance, tends to work well. Monolith heavy necrons gave me a crapton of problems. I havent played against the new dex yet with the Duke.

GodOfRandom
09-12-2011, 15:24
Deep Strike is absolutely terrible for DE. Too random. You deep strike one unit, it shoots one time, it dies. Thats all.

Corvus Corone
09-12-2011, 15:48
Deep Strike is absolutely terrible for DE. Too random. You deep strike one unit, it shoots one time, it dies. Thats all.

More or less, yes.

It's not certain death, but close. Like I say, sometimes keeping one or two units in DS reserve can give you a way of tipping the scales, or at least messing with your opponents head.

Keeping a venom of blasterborn or a wych raider in DS reserve can make some players play more reserved, and you can always DS somewhere (relatively) safe and then jet it into a new position next turn.

Also, with the duke, you can DS then disembark, preventing wounds from the transport being shot down - a slight improvement on normal DE DS (though, of course, one that must be balanced against it's own drawbacks like having the infantry potentially exposed - one must always weigh these things up and do what seems best).

ColShaw
09-12-2011, 15:53
I've only played against DS DE once; it was a team tournament game (IG & IG on my side, DE & Daemons on the other) and their schtick was total Deep Strike. It was a disaster for the DE/Daemons. They came in piecemeal, were unable to significantly damage the IG army, and were annihilated in detail (very nearly tabled).

I think it's awfully risky.

Col. Dash
09-12-2011, 20:43
If you come in large numbers with redundancy it works fine and typically you will overwhelm your opponent with average reserve rolls. You get too few on though then yeah you are going to get stomped. However each one that drops gets to shoot at two targets which helps. It will overwhelm marines fairly quickly due to lack of unit numbers which i have done time and again. Parking lot guard give it issues however for the same reasons, too many targets. Its almost better to start with everything on the board and get first turn against them. I have had two marine players flat out tell me they will never play against my list again.

teheuax
10-12-2011, 04:20
Deep striking has only ever been awful to me. Besides, to deep strike my dark eldar I would need to use a special character and I refuse to do such things.

DarkLordVerjal
10-12-2011, 04:55
Well thanks for the awesome feedback, I asked mostly because I do it with my Chaos and was wondering if it was as helpful. But I can definitely see why it won't be as helpful.

Col. Dash
10-12-2011, 14:57
Dont knock it before you try it, but then all but one of my armies are based on Deep striking so i guess I am used to it and working around it. It is iffy but when it works, your opponents will hate you. When it doesnt work and they crush you they say things like "bad die rolls, man". Weird how they dont say after you squash them "good die rolls, man" instead of "That was absolutely no fun to play against, I will never play that list again."

Mr.selfdestruct
10-12-2011, 19:57
The missing factor here seems to be anything that will boost your reserve rolls or help with your scatter. For example, Marines have Tigerius, drop pods, and Locator beacons, Guard have Astropaths and Storm Troopers, Chaos has Icons, and Blood Angels just don't play fair. I think that running an all DS army can be fantastic, but you need insurance to make sure that you are not simply trickling onto the board. Unless the DE have something like that, it's going to be a risk every time.

The Lion's Shade
08-01-2012, 22:42
No the moment they touchdown they will be shot to pieces.

Col. Dash
09-01-2012, 03:46
Yeah but they will shot the crap out of what they land next to. Its all of nothing. You need enough redundancy to get enough in the first wave do do major damage. Accept they will die and hope for a good second wave. Third wave picks off anything left while the remnants of the 2nd wave goes for objectives. I think my DS army has all six troop choices in raiders, 2 blasterborn squads in raiders and one in a Venom and 3 razorwings with dissie and splintercannon upgrades. People fear the squad killing razorwings.

Ozeor
11-01-2012, 08:38
I wouldnt recommend the Dsing only, unless you got something to play around with the reserve rolls.