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View Full Version : Ideas that might make for a more intersting game, but will never happen



juggalo4life84
09-12-2011, 08:43
I've always wondered why in 40K the pinning rule takes such a back seat to the falling back rule in the shooting phase. And also why there were almost no benefits to shooting an enemy squad as far as morale was concerned.

so i've been kicking several ideas in my head.
1. instead of the unit taking a check to fall back from 25% casualties, instead take a pinning test, and have a -1 to LD for every model that was killed.

this would reflect the realities of taking accurate fire, and you can still incorporate a falling back mechanic at a higher percentage of casualties.

orks would not be affected by this rule unless their mob was taken down to a size where normal morale rules also applied as they are today, nor would many armies that operate in large mobs, but have rules like fearless to back up those mobs.

the other change that should be concierge is having some kind of penalty for a squad that becomes pinned in close combat. so that some kind of fire and maneuver element gets introduced into the game.

Jakeman214
09-12-2011, 10:47
I'm telling you right now that men under fire don't stay where they are, they try to get someplace else that isn't under fire. One or two men may freeze up, but when you take 25% casualties its time to retreat and save your ****. If you retreat and regroup later, you can still fight. If you freeze and hold your ground, the enemy will slaughter you.

The problem with the Pinning rule is so many units are fearless, so Pinning has no effect. Think about it, 50% of armies are Space Marines, and of the rest, its only Guard, Tau and Eldar who really have to worry about Pinning.

Personally, I want an enemy unit to be falling back, as they will have negative modifiers to rally next turn, and they happen to be 2d6 further away from my squishy guardsmen. A Pinned unit gets back up next turn and can do anything, and its right there, on top of that Objective I wanted to take this turn.

fluffstalker
09-12-2011, 12:17
And guard tau and eldar, at least the competitive armies, will all be in transports for the majority of the game anyhow. And since you can't pin parking lots, I'm not sure why they bother with the pinning rule in the first place. Either make it useful or get rid of it imo.

juggalo4life84
09-12-2011, 18:35
@jakeman214 i would have to disagree with you on that one. the pinning rule is supposed to represent a volume of fire or weapon effects that force a unit to take cover immediately. though it would be great to move to a spot where you are not getting shot at, it is simply a death wish at that point, so the unit hits the ground.

Lord Damocles
09-12-2011, 18:40
All Pinning really needs is to inflict a -1Ld penalty on the pinning test for each wound after the first caused by a Pinning weapon.

Theocracity
09-12-2011, 18:54
@jakeman214 i would have to disagree with you on that one. the pinning rule is supposed to represent a volume of fire or weapon effects that force a unit to take cover immediately. though it would be great to move to a spot where you are not getting shot at, it is simply a death wish at that point, so the unit hits the ground.

Otherwise known as "Going to Ground," the rule that allows a unit to voluntarily pin itself for an improved cover save.

To be fair, there were rumors of 6th edition introducing the concept of "Suppression," which would be a morale-check based form of pinning. A morale check that passed but rolled over half leadership would cause a unit to lose shooting and have limited movement options, but would gain a better cover save. A failed morale check would cause a fallback move (in any direction as long as its not closer to an enemy). Those are just rumors though.

Misfratz
09-12-2011, 20:57
It's your game, so if you can find an opponent willing to try out some variation on the rules then it could certainly happen.

MajorWesJanson
10-12-2011, 04:37
Pinning should be by model, not unit, and you have to keep coherency with pinned models, or leave them behind and let them die. Same with Immob vehicle squadrons. They don't die when immobilized, but if they are and you leave coherency with them.

massey
10-12-2011, 05:12
I always imagined Pinning as representing an attack that you don't know where it's coming from. BLAM! Bob dies. Sniper! You're not sure exactly where he is, so you just duck and cover. It represents guys who just hit the ground and keep their heads down.

Right now lots of units ignore morale. Making it a more universal mechanic would allow a lot more gameplay options, but would decrease the space-super-hero feel.

Bunnahabhain
10-12-2011, 10:02
Surely making fewer units ignore morale would make make those that do stand out as real heros?

There is another possible answer. ( that fits within existing mechanics...) You ignore Morale through being brave or stupid...

Let units like terminators lead by calgar still ignore morale, they are space super heros.

Let those like Ork mobs, who ignore it through sheer numbers, ignore it, but take more casulties as a result. Like better balanced version of no retreat, in fact

Woodsman
10-12-2011, 10:08
Skull shaped shot glasses; lets make the shooting phase more interesting!

MajorWesJanson
10-12-2011, 11:21
Skull shaped shot glasses; lets make the shooting phase more interesting!

Like drinking shots or like x-ray glasses? Both would be cool