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thrawn
11-12-2011, 13:13
lord of change
lvl 4
master of sorcery
power vortex

herald of khorne
jugger
firestorm blade
armour of khorne

herald of khorne
jugger
firestorm blade
armour of khorne

herald of khorne bsb
jugger
firestorm blade
armour of khorne
great icon of despair

26 letters
fc

26 letters
fc

26 letters
champion, standard

5 furies

5 furies

idea is pretty simple. with juggers, i have 3 hordes of letters, and a lvl 4 LoC. use to small units furies to harrass, pull frenzied units out, fanatics out, etc. really want flamers, not sure how to get them in? ideas?

thrawn
11-12-2011, 13:15
just realised my own mistakes, too many points on heros.

drop bsb and icon of despair, drop 1 unit of furies, add 4 flamers

HalfBlood
11-12-2011, 16:05
2,400 is such a wierd limiting factor for daemons. I suggest bringing it up to 2,500.

Remove the furies

Add Flamers(units of 6)

Remove firestorm blade on Heralds, and also remove them off juggernaughts. Place them in your blood letter units. You might still have room for BsB

thrawn
11-12-2011, 17:59
thanks halfblood.

i wanna keep the heralds on juggers because it adds to their armour save.

i really want the flamers too, but i also want 3 hordes of letters.

also, 2400 is pretty standard around here.

10_minute_pie
11-12-2011, 19:01
But the juggers also add to their ability to be blasted apart by cannonballs and stone throwers on turn 1.

Morax
12-12-2011, 15:53
But the juggers also add to their ability to be blasted apart by cannonballs and stone throwers on turn 1.

This is the primary concern of heros on Juggs. It is not worth the risk for all that they bring to the units of letters. Drop the juggs and use the points to pick up the other 3 letters you need. A 3+/5+ is more then enough when you have 3 units of "I eat your face" bloodletters.

With master of sorcery you have to anotate which lore you are chosing in your list. Life is a pretty standard go to with BL lists as it makes them even harder to get rid of and dwellers is a nice spell to remove problems they can't deal with.

I second the units of flamers, they are so much better then furies it is a little sad. You would just be better served with them instead. Units of 6 are ideal for concentration of force and become ideal targets for regrowth spells. If you can't get them up that high, as close as you can will do.

HalfBlood
12-12-2011, 19:52
Blood Letters do have a weakness and its their Tougness 3. Thats why life is so standard with Letters. Most units will wound them on 4s. So its important they do the most damage. Heralds give them hatred and also add another 3 attacks in the assualt phase.

The only reason i would suggest Juggers is if you choose to run a unit of Bloodcrushers which is pretty fluffy however Crushers are never in Competitive(Khorne) daemon lists. The test i do is compare the cost of the Crusher model to 2 flesh hounds. Exact same cost, however when you see how much more you get for hounds(mobility/ perfect flank attackers) then for crushers

thrawn
13-12-2011, 19:34
thanks guys! no juggers then!

lord of change
lvl 4
master of sorcery
power vortex

herald of khorne
firestorm blade
armour of khorne

herald of khorne
firestorm blade
armour of khorne

herald of khorne bsb
firestorm blade
armour of khorne
great icon of despair

29 letters
fc

29 letters
fc

29 letters
champion, standard

4 Flamers

Another army i would rather have, but does not seem as competitive is a leadership bomb slaanesh. what do you guys think of this one?

keeper
lvl 4
siren song

the masque

herald of khorne bsb
firestorm blade
armour of khorne
icon of despair

herald of khorne
firestomr blade
armour of khorne

29 letters
full command

29 letters
champion, standard

5 furies

5 seekers
full command
magic standard can only stand

5 hounds

5 flamers

do you think this list can be as competitive as the one above?

HalfBlood
14-12-2011, 03:28
First List:

One Blood Letter unit should have the Icon of Endless war. Your only able to have one of these in your army, however this can make a huge difference on the first charge. (The Blood Letter unit gets to roll 3D6 on its first charge)

Remove firestorm blade on the Heralds this will allow you to get the Icon of Endless War and will allow you to add another flamer model. the idea of removing the firestorm blade is because most lords/heros can take the dragonbane gem(or whatever its called) its basically the 2+ ward against flaming attacks. This allows them to be perfect and survive long against your heralds attacks in challenges. Firestorm blade makes Heralds S7 which is cool, however most models wont get an armor save anyways since the herald is S6 with killing blow.


List 2:

Furies are a joke(waste of points)

Remove Firestorm blade(reasoning is above)

Add Icon of Endless War

Seekers are cool, however they just dont fit the list. Flesh Hounds can do the job just as good. I run Khorne for Core, and heros. Then Tzeentch for Rare and Lord, (1 hero).

I have a variation of my original list where I swap Fateweaver for a decked out Keep of Secrets with Spirit Swallower(or whatever its called). I have found that even though making him a level 4 is cool it just doesnt work. Hes so fast and strong hes generally in combat and never leaves (especially with the sword).



You could do the leadership bomb with list 2. This is the combination of Icon of Despair with Masque. Then you get your units into combat and your opponent is failing his fear checks every turn. Your you charge with terror and they have to take a Ld test by -3 or more.


My Keeper list:

Tbh the second list is similar to my list I run at 2,500(my less competitive one). I run 2 units of 6 flamers. 2 Units of 30 Letters(Fc, one with Icon of Endless War). 2 Heralds with armor, one with BsB Icon of Despair, or stubbon banner(cant remember name). 1 Herald of Tz with Master Sorcery and spellbreaker and Keeper with Spirit Swallower. You may have some points left over, cannot remember since I havent used this list in a while.


My second list strategy(the one above) is a little strange, but it works.

The point is for the keeper to just tie up a deadly unit for the game. Every turn you have several attacks where your opponent wont get armor, unless they have a 1+ save then they will get 6+s The keeper gets to reroll to hit, and will most likely wound on 2s. You then end combat with a thunder stomp. He will shrud off most attacks. The other idea is to have him go unit hunting. M 10 allows him to get almost any enemy.

You then want your blood letters to be supporting your flamers while your flamers wreck havoc. Your herald of Tz takes life to regrowth units, or to cast dwellers.


Weakness: Magic(You wont be dominating this phase, however most Daemons lists do), and gun lines(Most armies that run gun lines can take this list out. Cannons go at the Keeper which is very fragile, while the gun fire hits the fragile Blood Letter units.)




Overall, I prefer list 1, however You should run 2 units of blood letters is generally enough... the rest of the points spent is on Rare/Special. (Flamers or Hounds) List 1 provides pretty strong Magic.

Weakness: Gunlines(Like cannons go after LoC which is fragile, and gunfire hits the fragile bloodletter units)


Unfortunately, Daemons are a fun army to play but they dont really have something they are good at. Most people consider them to be very strong, and scary because of how they were last edition. Currently Daemon lists struggle against strong melee armies or armies that have so much gun fire you are unable to protect your expensive but fragile units. Dark Elf gunnlines are especially brutal.

This is why I run Fateweaver. He basically helps daemons get over this hurdle of weaknesses. His 3+ ward provides perfect protection from Cannon fire, not to mention he gets +6 to cast and can picks his spells. The picking of spells allows for game-breaking combos(which i wont say), and also allows you to take abilities like Bironas Time Warp which allows your bloodletters to compete against WoC, or against gun lines. At the same time he allows your bloodletters to be healed if you take regrowth.

thrawn
14-12-2011, 14:01
thanks halfblood. however, i will always take firestorm blade as one of my regular opponents is DE and always brings a couple of hydras. a herald of khorne with firestorm in a hoard of letters will eat a hydra before it can attack.

seekers i think will fit list if i'm using a keeper and the masque.

i agree that spirit swallower is very good, i was hoping to make keeper a strong magic level so i can use good slanesh spells and compound the masque and icon's abilities (ie all opponents need to use 3D6 and discard lowest everytime they take a leadership test).

i thihnk your right that daemons are fun, but not as competitive. fateweaver seems a bit over the top for me and my group, it would be like someone taking teclis.

thrawn
14-12-2011, 14:09
half blood, what do you think of this?

keeper
lvl 2
spirit swallower

the masque

herald of tzeentch
master of sorcery
spell breaker

herald of khorne bsb
firestorm blade
armour of khorne
icon of despair

herald of khorne
firestomr blade
armour of khorne

29 letters
fc

29 letters
fc

5 seekers
full command
magic standard can only stand

5 hounds

5 flamers

HalfBlood
14-12-2011, 20:33
The list is solid


This list will give a good runing for your friends/opponents. Fateweaver lists can be pretty brutal/competitive, so its up to you to decide.

fusionmonkey
14-12-2011, 20:55
Furies are a joke(waste of points)


just intersted in why you hate furies so much personaly i find them very usefull for:

redirecting, standing infront of units so they cant charge when they want and putting them in odd positions so that i can get a good charge of when needed with my magic phase first

warmachine hunters, to just get a few more points of warmachines and to stop them ripping holes in blood letters and on lord of change or whatever

standing on mangler squigs/ fanatics. seriously they guys are a nightmare for blood letters and can turn even the easiest of combats into a very different situation.

also having a 5+ ward and IPT makes them so reliable and with fear it does make a differnce in fights with chaff out on the flanks without general + BSB

any way point is i would put the furries in as they are hardly expensive and are so usefull

HalfBlood
14-12-2011, 22:59
I know what you mean about the tactics furies are used for. I compare them to harpies if you know what I mean.

Where I play people bring alot of gun lines( like 3-4 units of archers or whatever ). Furies would just get shot up in a round.


Tbh I havent used furies that much, More like I havent had the points to spend it on them. In Daemon lists I first look to maximize my rare choice of flamers ( 2 units of 6). And my special choice (I prefer 2 units of 6 flesh hounds). Lastly I know i must have atleast 2 units of 6 of the 4 choices. After this is done I look to my lord(Fateweaver, or Keeper/LoC) Then I look to my core(Letters do it best, maybe PB for the survivability, however PB are very weak to Purple sun/Pit of shades) After this I cram in the rest of the points into heros (2 heralds and 1 HoT /w disc/master sorcery/spellbreaker, then depending on how im feeling i useually take skulltaker for 4 more attacks at very high Initiative). At this point im useually nearing 2,500 points which is the point level I play at

thrawn
14-12-2011, 23:22
i think fusionmonkey has a good point. being normally a HE and WE player, i find great eagles invaluable for, redirecting, pulling out fanatics, war machine hunting, etc.

i think i'm going to try to squeeze 5 furies in.

i'll let you know how they do half blood.

HalfBlood
15-12-2011, 00:51
Alright Good luck