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View Full Version : pre heresey 1k sons as grey knights, the storm bolter problem



howardmonsoonmoon
12-12-2011, 11:32
Hello fine people of warseer

Having digested the excellent novels prosperro burns and thousand sons i fancy doing a pre heresey thousand sons army, partially as a modelling project but i do like to take my projects to a tournaments ( as a nottingham lad TOS normally) as it gives me a nice deadline to work too.

Firstly how do people feel about grey knights as Thousand sons, they seem like a good fit to me, army full of psykers and all. I would very carefully limit myself to appropraite units so Terminators/paladins, strike squads/purifiers, dreads, rhinos, landraiders, librarian.

I would specifically not take razorbacks, dreadknights, storm ravens, any inquistorial units etc as they dont fit.

Secondly i would love to hear peoples opinions on, well, the only sticking point for me, stormbolters. I can accept both psycannon and psylancer use as some sort of recovered artifacts and a tie in with the profusion of psychic powers. I can model twinlinked bolters on terminators which will obviously count as stormbolters. But what about on PAGK type units? I think modelling bolters and calling them stormbolters isnt clear enough to people. This is after a themed gery knight army at its core. So I could model twinlinked bolters on everyone and except that small themed comprimise.

What do people think, thanks for your responses in advance.

reds8n
12-12-2011, 11:41
I'd just say something like they're bolt guns, but the different stats just represent (yet) another psychic power or their aim being aided by the tutelaries ( sp ?) or something.

Wishing
12-12-2011, 11:52
When you are doing counts-as, everything fits, because you're forcing it to fit. I wouldn't sweat the storm bolter thing too much. :)

Bunnahabhain
12-12-2011, 12:52
The ammo is the same, it is only the rate of Fire to account for...

Bolter drill. They've trained themselves, via the long war to move and fire their bolters more effectively than normal Two shots whilst moving=storm bolter

Minor psychic power
They can sense where the enemy is in advance, allowing them more time to fire. Two shots whilst moving.

There you go. Solved twice over...

EDIT; Oh and done well, a non power gaming counts as like this is great. Good work!

baphomael
12-12-2011, 12:59
I think you should be fine... given that grey knights universally carry storm bolters, if your opponent knows they are playing against a grey knight army I doubt there would be much confusion. I think a bigger point of concern would be making sure your opponent knows which models represent paladins, terminators, purifiers and PAGK and having each unit type clearly identifiable.

Axeman1n
12-12-2011, 13:12
If I were playing that army as Counts as Grey Knights, I'd shoot one shot at 24" instead of 2. Rules wise I'd just shoot half of the squad.

Xandros
12-12-2011, 13:23
You can put it down to more sophisticated weapons, exactly like Grey Knights. They already have force halberds anyway.

Scalebug
12-12-2011, 14:41
By sheer coincidence your army happened to be selected by the Adeptus Mechanicus to field-test the newly discovered STC prototype for the stormbolter that was planned to replace combi-weapons... :p

or what Wishing and baphomael said... it's a fairly small matter of suspension of disbelief after all.

KarlPedder
12-12-2011, 15:20
Your using a counts as army and the thing that breaks it for you is that the mechanics for stormbolters is unfluffy................

howardmonsoonmoon
12-12-2011, 16:03
Thanks for your comments,

perhaps indeed i have worried a bit much about the stormbolter thing. i think a few small cosmetic changes to the stormbolters, perhaps taking, off the cuff" and putting them back "in hands" will satisfy both fluff needs and tourament needs.

Ta

Excessus
12-12-2011, 16:36
You can put it down to more sophisticated weapons, exactly like Grey Knights. They already have force halberds anyway.
Maybe the officers had, but the rank and file? No way...

I still find it ludicrous to use the GK as a counts-as thousand sons codex because of standard stormbolters and force weapons. But the rule of cool apply, if you model and paint them nicely, and avoid giving every single one of them a "modern" TS helmet, sure. Many people that do a heresy TS army give every one of them a big hat, like the current models have(usually from a 3d party supplier). Far from everybody had those things back then, look at any art from that period...

Vaktathi
12-12-2011, 16:49
The storm bolter is less of an issue, really, it's a bolter that's better at 12-24", not much required there. The Force Weapon on everything is really the bigger fluff nutter issue in terms of counts-as.

Freakiq
12-12-2011, 17:17
Just take a normal bolter and give it two muzzles beneath each other.

Maybe a drum magazine as well to make them stand out.

Finn
12-12-2011, 17:58
The storm bolter is less of an issue, really, it's a bolter that's better at 12-24", not much required there. The Force Weapon on everything is really the bigger fluff nutter issue in terms of counts-as.

I agree, but can't the force weapon bit also be explained with some kind of psychic power? They test as a squad, so either the whole squad passes and has force weapons or the whole squad doesn't, so maybe it's some kind of group power? The collective will of a bunch of almost-psykers, in a whole is greater than the sum of its parts kind of way?

Most things they fight aren't going to particularly care whether it was a force weapon or normal CCW that killed them anyway.

Excessus
12-12-2011, 19:35
Most things they fight aren't going to particularly care whether it was a force weapon or normal CCW that killed them anyway.
You mean power weapon of course, since force weapons are also power weapons. And power weapons also makes no sense on rank&file troopers...

Many of the thousand sons had powers that weren't as obvious as lightning from their palms.


*Corvidae* were pre-cogs. Invul-saves or rerolls would fit well there...

*Pyrae* were the "classic" mages, fire from their palms and stuff, also possessing robots and automata... Dreads and mechanical things could fit well there.

*Pavoni* were healers. FnP and "buffing" powers would fit.

*Athanaeans* were telepaths. Maybe things that manipulate the enemies(like lash or something) or similar things could be considered fitting.

*Raptora* were telekines. Forcefields, invul saves and such would fit...

Just some examples and thoughts...

Finn
12-12-2011, 19:40
You mean power weapon of course, since force weapons are also power weapons. And power weapons also makes no sense on rank&file troopers...

Erm, yeah, those. But in any case, I still think it can be explained enough that it doesn't break the suspension of disbelief.

Chem-Dog
12-12-2011, 19:43
When you are doing counts-as, everything fits, because you're forcing it to fit. I wouldn't sweat the storm bolter thing too much. :)

Agreed. As long as there's a clear delineation about what's what with regards to units and weapons there shouldn't be a problem here. Even if it means simply painting a unique Icon on each squad and giving your opponent a crib-sheet. Make sure that a "special" weapon is the same wherever it occurs in the army and you should be golden.

Korraz
12-12-2011, 20:00
Simple. If you are doing this for the fluff: Shoot only once on 24", twice on 12" and don't assault after shooting.

If you only care about the looks, no need to justify anything.

Excessus
12-12-2011, 20:31
Simple. If you are doing this for the fluff: Shoot only once on 24", twice on 12" and don't assault after shooting.

If you only care about the looks, no need to justify anything.

Though if he only care about the looks, he doesn't have to use the GK codex anyway, right? Use the vanilla codex or something...

(or the SW codex...HERESY!!! :D )

howardmonsoonmoon
12-12-2011, 21:30
I have to admit i never thought that the force weapon thing was too much of a problem, for me it represents a generic close combat buff that is the application of some form of short range psychic power. Yes i know that thats a very broad brush stroke, but i can live with that one.

I had a little giggle at using the SW dex, but i am a SW palyer already so it may be a little dull to use that again.

I did ponder the vanilla marine dex but, well, apart from taking double librarians i cant see the scope myself.

Excessus
12-12-2011, 21:51
I fail to see the fact that all psychic powers must be using a psychic test to use. Most of the thousand sons powers seemed supporting at best and passive buffs, easily represented by USR:s or gear options.

Does the sergeant have a combi-melta? No, he is a Pyrae that once per battle will be able to unleash a short ranged superheated blast!

Does that captain have a master crafted weapon? No he is a Corvidae that can predict his enemy's movements and thus have extra accuracy in his blows!

of course they have to be modeled there after...

Treadhead_1st
16-12-2011, 03:54
I would specifically not take razorbacks, dreadknights, storm ravens, any inquistorial units etc as they dont fit.

Love the idea.

Others have already commented on the Storm Bolter issue (psychic powers as justification, etc.) but I just wanted to chime in on something.

You said you wouldn't be fielding Dreadknights as they don't fit into the theme of the army, but have you considered using one as a counts-as Magnus?

Normally I would avoid trying to represent Primarchs, but it seems like it would be quite a good fit, and also allow you to mix up your Heavy Support section a bit!

This struck me as I was reading the thread, and thinking back to Battle of the Fang, iirc - where he enlarges himself in the face of opposition and can take one hell of a beating, the nullification of Daemonic powers could be attributed to his psychic mastery, any weapons could be counted as psychic attacks (with such control that he doesn't have to roll a psychic test ;)). It would also be an awesome centrepiece for large games and a fun converting project to boot (especially with his Personal Teleporter golden wings).

I'm not too familiar with Codex: Grey Knights so I may be totally off-base, but hopefully it is food for thought?

Chrysis
16-12-2011, 09:09
Dreadknight would make a good stand in for the Legio Cybernetica Robots as used during the fall of Prospero.

howardmonsoonmoon
16-12-2011, 10:09
Not sure i have the skill to sculpt/convert a dreadknight sized magnus (ps I remember all the epic daemon primarchs from epic in early 90's, Magnus had blue skin !!!)

But its a nice idea !

On the subject of legio cybernetica, thats not a bad idea. What about 'gun' servitors remodelled from the henchmen section as another idea ?

Cheers guys