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Avian
12-12-2011, 11:37
Ok, so the current Gigantic Spider is huge and barely fits on on a 50 mm square base. The old 4th edition Gigantic Spider looks tiny, even on the smaller 40 mm square base.

Would YOU (that's you personally, not some hypothetical other person at a tournament) be okay with the old version on a 50 mm base?

Denny
12-12-2011, 11:40
Would YOU be okay with the old version on a 50 mm base?

Yep, it is a classic and I'd love to see it (look, he wants to give me a little spider-hug!)

RealMikeBob
12-12-2011, 11:42
Not a problem in the slightest.

theunwantedbeing
12-12-2011, 11:49
As a giant spider mount, it's 100% fine.

If using it to represent an Arachnarok then no, not a chance (even if it is on the correct size base for such a creature).

The Clairvoyant
12-12-2011, 11:50
Yep absolutely. Its on the right base which is the main thing, although to be honest, i'd be fine with it on a 40mm.

The way i look at it is you have a classic model which you still want to use and you'd have to be pretty mean to disallow it, especially if its on the current 'correct size' base.

I'm yet to meet anyone who takes issue with older smaller models - my entire marine army is made up of the short RTB01s and all the old tanks with smaller foorprints. My tyranids are old the old hive tyrant and screamer killer (on new 60mm bases), my ork battlewagons are mostly old ones (shorter, lower and wider front arc), I have lots of old undead i still use - carrion with wraith riders, old skeleton chariots, old ghouls and old small ghosts.

Metacarpi
12-12-2011, 11:50
I don't really care what the model is, as long as it's on the right size base and at least representative of the model.

So tiny Giant Spiders on 50mm bases? Go for it pal!

Leogun_91
12-12-2011, 11:55
Absolutely, I want armies that follows fluff and looks good so I do have issues with proxying but using an old version of a current model I would never complain about.

Spiney Norman
12-12-2011, 12:24
Yes definitely allow it, you can't tell someone they can't play with their models just because they're not the latest version, that would invalidate vast swathes of most of my armies.

zoggin-eck
12-12-2011, 12:28
Ha, I lost the back banner of my guy. Must re-base for 50mm soon.

Avian, have you got the shaman or the warboss? Post photos!

(Oh yes, of course it's fine. You may as well argue the same for the gobbo as a character model, even in 4th edition he seemed to be the smallest goblin model I owned yet he lead an army of black orcs, big 'uns and Dark Elf allies!)

EmperorNorton
12-12-2011, 12:30
I'd certainly be okay with it, although I'd like to see it based in a way to make it look a little more impressive.

Avian
12-12-2011, 12:33
As a giant spider mount, it's 100% fine.

If using it to represent an Arachnarok then no, not a chance (even if it is on the correct size base for such a creature).
I have two Arachnaroks, so it's not for that, it's for the character mount (i.e. the medium spider, not the normal one or the huge one).



I'd certainly be okay with it, although I'd like to see it based in a way to make it look a little more impressive.
While on the one hand, it wouldn't be hard to make it more impressive, it probably will not end up very high up on the impressiveness scale, considering it's a little goblin on a little spider. ;)

Tokamak
12-12-2011, 12:36
I wouldn't like it, but if you find a way to use them as spider rider units it would be awesome.

Avian
12-12-2011, 12:40
I wouldn't like it, but if you find a way to use them as spider rider units it would be awesome.
Do you not think one tiny goblin on one tiny spider on a 125 mm by 50 mm base would look a little out of place? :confused:

WarmbloodedLizard
12-12-2011, 12:43
no problem.

eron12
12-12-2011, 12:51
It is an offical model, just outdated, so I would have no issue with it.

Memnos
12-12-2011, 13:15
There shouldn't be any problem whatsoever with it. It's the official model, even if a bit old. If someone said to me "You can't use your old metal Giant model because it's smaller than the current one, even if on the same base size." I would think they were joking.

I know you weren't saying you'd use it as an arachnarok, but to the person who said they wouldn't accept it, I would like to say that it depends on how they convert it.

If they built an Arachnarok sized pile of skulls and put that tiny thing on top dragging a wheeled Shrine with a Goblin Shaman on back, then said "He may be tiny, but he's mean.", then I would let it go. That would be both hilarious and not give any LOS advantage.

shelfunit.
12-12-2011, 13:27
Not even the slightest wiff of a problem :)

ihavetoomuchminis
12-12-2011, 13:35
It is a lovely model fitted in the right base. So YES, i wouldn't have a problem with it. And i would be unable to shoot at it.....it's takes me back in time, when i was a young child and life was easier and better.... :D

T10
12-12-2011, 13:38
Would YOU (that's you personally, not some hypothetical other person at a tournament) be okay with the old version on a 50 mm base?

If I recall correctly, those old-school spiders did not actually come with a base at all.

Also: Those old-school spiders were called "Giant Spiders" back then. Anyone objecting to the base size should also make a point about them not being allowed to count as "Gigantic Spiders".

-T10

Maskedman5oh4
12-12-2011, 17:18
no problem in my opinion

Malorian
12-12-2011, 18:24
It meets all requirements and is a GW model.

I wouldn't have a problem with it.


You on the other hand may have a problem when I pull a knife on you in the parking lot trying to get one for myself ;)

Avian
12-12-2011, 18:28
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but Canadians will never hurt me. :p

Gork or Possibly Mork
12-12-2011, 18:31
It wouldn't have a problem but maybe you could mount them on top of a rock or something so someone doesn't think it's a little dodgy with TLOS.

I mean if they are like half the height i could kind of see why someone might complain. Not really but sort of.

ihavetoomuchminis
12-12-2011, 18:40
Sticks and stones may break my bones, but Canadians will never hurt me. :p


That....was.....a rihanna joke? Warseer is getting better :p

Avian
12-12-2011, 18:46
That....was.....a rihanna joke? Warseer is getting better :p
I think you may need up on old proverbs. No, it's not based off a song by some chick from the Caribbean. :p


Regarding LOS, isn't the common argument that it works both ways? If they can't see him, then he can't see them.
Though in my experience, you can nearly always see everybody anyway, even if they are small.
And remember what I said about hypothetical people. ;)

Harwammer
12-12-2011, 19:12
... But old proverbs excite me! There's your Riri* joke.

Avian: Doesn't that argument assume that LoS is drawn by models looking at each other eye to eye? If model 1 can see model 2's legs that doesn't mean model 2 can see model 1**. Clearly you've not been climbing enough trees to peep through windows :P



* I hate this 'cute' moniker
**unless model 2 is wearing the pants of many eyes.

Gertjan
12-12-2011, 19:19
I wouldn't have a single problem with it to be honest, it's an official GW model so use it. I find that a lot of times the people who wonder about this worry to much. In my area people play with the old (i mean REALLY OLD) greater demons, those are even somewhat smaller than a modern demon prince but I haven't heard a single complaint, same goes for those who use the rt sm dreadnought etc etc. Pretty much all the time the opponent is more impressed with seeing an old mini in the flesh rather than on some internet page of legend or whatever. This overrides the whole "tlos" debate pretty much all the time, old mini's are considered to be a collector's thing, not so much a power gamer's/rules lawyer trait and thus don't garner nearly as much outcry as a crouching or sitting giant :D

And if someone does have a problem with it, you can always do what I do aswell, which is be very sporting and considerate and tell them that they can buy the new model for you so you can use that if they have such a problem with it. Most of the time people kind of see how silly it is :p (or you end up with a new mini which you know, isn't all that bad either :angel:)

Avian
12-12-2011, 19:20
Avian: Doesn't that argument assume that LoS is drawn by models looking at each other eye to eye?
All I know is, whenever I've argued that my models are at a disadvantage because they are modeled bigger than normal (ex: my Daemon Prince, who rides a Disc rather than fly with wings), people counter with it being more able to see other things, which supposedly outweighs him getting shot all the time. :shifty:



If model 1 can see model 2's legs that doesn't mean model 2 can see model 1**.
Surely that means my Spider is at a disadvantage, given that it has more legs than anything else? :D

Urgat
12-12-2011, 19:21
Ok, so the current Gigantic Spider is huge and barely fits on on a 50 mm square base. The old 4th edition Gigantic Spider looks tiny, even on the smaller 40 mm square base.

Would YOU (that's you personally, not some hypothetical other person at a tournament) be okay with the old version on a 50 mm base?

To be perfectly honest? No (but I wouldn't say it, I'd just think "tssss"), because I have it, and it's actually smaller than the normal giant spider, let alone a gigantic spider :p I feel kindda on my own there being the first nay-sayer when I'm usually extremely open to using old minis and conversions, but here... it's just too small for a gigantic spider, you can almost fit two on a cavalry base.
I use mine as a count-as wolf for a forest goblin shaman (because giant spiders are STILL not a mount choice for shamans :rolleyes: ).

Makaber
12-12-2011, 20:21
T10 has been tearing up the tournament scene with those babies for years now.

LotusCorgi
13-12-2011, 04:55
those models are awesome. Classics. No one should object.

Angelwing
13-12-2011, 08:23
I wouldn't bat an eyelid. It is small though for a gigantic spider. The old trish Morrison model labelled as 'spider' is much bigger. I have the catacombs of terror liche (http://www.warseer.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=1448&title=tomb-king-on-spider&cat=549) riding one for my tomb kings.

T10
13-12-2011, 08:58
T10 has been tearing up the tournament scene with those babies for years now.

"Tearing up the tournament scene" may be an exaggeration, but yeah, I've had a lot of fun with the little critter. Lately I've taken to using him with the Spider Banner. Since I've fitted him on a 40mm base he goes very well with a unit of Trolls, and doesn't take up valuable space in my SOB'UWBs unit, allowing them to rain poison death on the enemy!

-T10

Thalenchar
13-12-2011, 09:59
No problem at all. It´s a cool model and you´ll put it on the proper base. The second one is really the only important criterium for me. LoS will not be a problem in my opinion because, as you said, a) the issue works both ways and b) there are very, very few places you can't see with TLoS now. Happens quite often that you can even see through a ranked up unit of 50 models, or something similar. As long as you can see the tiniest bit, you're good (provided it's not a bit of weapon, etc).

Verchild
13-12-2011, 18:54
Honestly no. There is nothing wrong with that, and if someone really is giving you a hassel about that you may want to look for a different player who is more interested in enjoying the game then how advantageous the base size it.

My buddy plays Beastmen and has a bunch of Ungors on 25mm bases from back when they came like that. ( Now they are on 20mm )
We talked about how it DOES change things in game play, but 1) We discussed it and agreed that they are Ungors, Seriously... and 2) I want to have fun playing a game, i don't sit and try and figure out the best way to win to the exclusion of all else. The bases didn't realy matter THAT much.

Vepr
13-12-2011, 19:11
As long as I know the person is not doing it to squeeze every little last bit of advantage they can out of things like model size for hiding behind things I would have no problem with it at all.

The Low King
13-12-2011, 19:14
base size is a bigger issue as it can effect combats significantly but the model.....i cant see a problem there, LOS will only very rarely be an issue (and an easily avoided one at that)

popisdead
13-12-2011, 20:32
oooh man those are so cute.

I'd not have a problem with it, especially if there was effort in painting it.

Vepr
13-12-2011, 22:07
On a side note I really like the old models. :D

ashc
13-12-2011, 22:45
No problem at all, they look great.

Duke Ramulots
14-12-2011, 02:43
I would only have a problem because they were "giant spiders" not "Gigantic Spiders". So with the whole "true line of sight" deal I would want there to be an equal hight model to model with the apropriate title.


Or I just wouldn't care at all, depends on if the other guy was also trying to "game" me other ways.

Urgat
14-12-2011, 06:59
On reading the topic, I wanna point out I don't like it not because of LoS, but because to me a gigantic spider smaller than a giant spider is as silly-looking as an arachnarok smaller than a gigantic spider. Pretty much all my opinions are based on looks, so even if I'm alone, I'll stand by my point, ah! :p

zoggin-eck
14-12-2011, 07:41
To me, this is always what a "gigantic spider" is anyway, since that's what I always used and saw when first introduced to the unit (as said, 4th edition).

This works the same way for my plastic mono-pose and metal command group black orcs, who are sadly smaller and wearing less armour than my regular orcs!

Daniel36
14-12-2011, 07:44
Awesome miniatures like those deserve to be reinstated. I would not be okay with you NOT using it, if I knew you had them.

Indra
14-12-2011, 08:11
Spiders are good on all bases.

mrtn
14-12-2011, 09:02
Of course I'd be OK with it.

Avian
23-12-2011, 09:41
So thanks to all the replies, I have now bought one of the old models. I actually bought the shaman, but since Shamans can't ride spiders, he'll go on a wolf and be replaced with the 4th ed Forest Goblin Spider Rider Boss.

Pics when he gets painted.

Sheena Easton
24-12-2011, 18:44
I rarely fought a battle with my O&G without one of those two since I bought them the month they came out - and have no intention of stopping should I ever pick up my Greenskins again. Glad too see others are still using them.

DeadlySquirrel
24-12-2011, 23:25
Isn't it true LoS now? So with it being smaller, it would be easier to hide?

In a friendly game, I'd have no problem. But if the answer to the above is "yes" then I wouldn't let you in a tournament game.

Andy p
24-12-2011, 23:53
Yep, it is a classic and I'd love to see it (look, he wants to give me a little spider-hug!)

This.....allll this!!!

Mirbeau
25-12-2011, 03:20
fine with me, especially as deciding otherwise would be overly hypocritical.

Feefait
25-12-2011, 03:58
Yes. i'd even be okay with a goblin 'surfing' a bunch of tiny tiny spiders, or 8 of the ones you mentioned for an a-roc. course i'm open to all sorts of things. I don't care as long as I can recognize it once you've told me what it is.

Theodred
25-12-2011, 04:33
But if the answer to the above is "yes" then I wouldn't let you in a tournament game.

Its this train of thought that turns people off the tournament scene.

You should approach tournament games in the same way you approach friendly games.

Warlord Ghazak Gazhkull
25-12-2011, 08:03
I would have no problem with it.

Wildcat
25-12-2011, 11:35
Isn't it true LoS now? So with it being smaller, it would be easier to hide?

In a friendly game, I'd have no problem. But if the answer to the above is "yes" then I wouldn't let you in a tournament game.

I disagree with this - following this logic rules out almost every vintage mini in tournament play, which is a terrible attitude to have. Use the spider and enjoy having a unique model!

DeadlySquirrel
25-12-2011, 12:40
Its this train of thought that turns people off the tournament scene.

You should approach tournament games in the same way you approach friendly games.

I was never big on the tournaments anyway, but if I was playing to win and not to have fun (eg in a tournament game) I wouldn't want a Gigantic spider hiding in the long grass or behind a small wall.

Avian
25-12-2011, 18:38
Realistically, with TLoS, everything is visible, even if it's very small. It's essentially always possible to see through some model's legs or under its armpit and spot what's beyond.

And I think it's wrong to see tournament gamers as some strange breed who don't want to have fun.

EmperorNorton
25-12-2011, 20:31
Realistically, with TLoS, everything is visible, even if it's very small. It's essentially always possible to see through some model's legs or under its armpit and spot what's beyond.

And I think it's wrong to see tournament gamers as some strange breed who don't want to have fun.

Right, they just don't want their opponent to have fun. ;)