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Lord Greyskull
12-12-2011, 22:13
A friend of mine and me were in a tournament this weekend. One of the games my friend played against was Ogre Kingdoms. The player had a unit of 4 ogres(full command) with a Butcher and his Ogre Tyrant.

Both characters were in the back rank as the champ/standard/musician took up the front rank. He did this so the unit could benefit from his general's LD and still use 3 of his attacks. He also said since its true line of sight that his Butcher could use magic missles(saying that he could see to the sides of the ogres in front of him). The guys running the tournament apparently didn't have any issues with this.

I could see the general being able to use his ld from the back rank as he has a12" range, but could a unit use heroes ld if he wasn't in the front rank?

I just would like to know peoples thoughts on these.

Lord Inquisitor
12-12-2011, 22:20
Yes it's legal. In fact, he has no choice if the unit is 3-wide, the characters MUST be in the second rank. The characters in the second rank can attack (limited by supporting attacks rule) and can shoot from the second rank just like any other model. His butcher actually can use the LOS of the ogre standing right in front of him for magic missiles by the way, since it operates in the same manner as a shooting attack. There are no restrictions whatsoever on using a character's Ld or Inspiring Presence/BSB from a second rank.

Also note that he can use "Make Way" to move his characters into the front rank in combat if he wants to.

All of this is very standard tactics for Ogre Kingdoms. There are just more people playing OK these days.

AlphariusOmegon20
13-12-2011, 04:32
Yes it's legal. In fact, he has no choice if the unit is 3-wide, the characters MUST be in the second rank. The characters in the second rank can attack (limited by supporting attacks rule) and can shoot from the second rank just like any other model. His butcher actually can use the LOS of the ogre standing right in front of him for magic missiles by the way, since it operates in the same manner as a shooting attack. There are no restrictions whatsoever on using a character's Ld or Inspiring Presence/BSB from a second rank.

Also note that he can use "Make Way" to move his characters into the front rank in combat if he wants to.

All of this is very standard tactics for Ogre Kingdoms. There are just more people playing OK these days.

Actually, L.I., that's wrong. Characters ALWAYS have to be in the front rank unless there are enough characters to push them to the second rank. Command models do not count as characters, thus they, not the general would be pushed back.

They seriously botched that one.

Lord Inquisitor
13-12-2011, 04:39
I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong. As I said its fairly standard with ogres. I'll give you page refs tomorrow if you're unconvinced but you might want to check the rulebook yourself, it's reasonably clear.

AlphariusOmegon20
13-12-2011, 04:41
I'm pretty certain I'm not wrong. As I said its fairly standard with ogres. I'll give you page refs tomorrow if you're unconvinced but you might want to check the rulebook yourself, it's reasonably clear.

Crap, I just looked it up and you're not wrong, I'm still thinking 7th ed. when it comes to characters in units.

My bad.

I have GOT to stop playing 7th ed games so I forget those rules once and for all.

Sh4d0w
13-12-2011, 11:29
Haha 7th ed games, was much better (for some armies) me and my mate still have dark elves and lizzies so we still play the occasional 7th ed game, much more tactical to be honest. However 8th made it much more balanced, wouldn't dream of trying to play my dwarves in 7th ed, gunline or go home :), btw never stop playing 7th!!

Mercules
13-12-2011, 13:17
The number of times I have to explain this against new opponents is silly. This and the number of times I have to stop someone while they are shooting at my units and force them to slow down and do it correctly once I'm down to 4 Rank and File Ogres and characters. Too many people go, "20 shots *rattle*, 11 hits *rattle* 4 wounds." and I have to go, "Ok... so 11 hits which are distributed across 4 RnF and 2 Characters so 1 each then 1 extra each on the characters and 7 total on RnF. Reroll those wounds please since the characters have To5."

Lord Greyskull
13-12-2011, 21:54
Thanks the for input. My problem with letting units use a character's ld from the back ranks makes everyone almost like Skaven.

Mercules
13-12-2011, 22:00
Um.... Anyone -can- use a Character's Ld from anywhere in the unit, not just Skaven. Welcome to 8th Edition. :)

woodster17
13-12-2011, 22:23
Which is why Greyskull said 'like' Skaven Mercules since obviously it's historically been a Skaven tactic. Then again, apart from the above example, why anyone with an sense of martial honour would place there characters in the back (or anywhere apart from the front rank) is beyond me. Oh wait... I play Skaven and Ogres.