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Crovax20
13-12-2011, 11:04
I am feeling the itch of my beard and feel like adding dwarves to my collection of warhammer armies. I am currently playing Goblins and Tomb Kings and I thought the dwarves might make a nice third army to have, as they don't crumble and are quite elite. I have come to belief that 2 batallion boxes would give me quite a nice starting force. Here is the list I came up with, utilizing the two batallions + 3 extra things.

Heroes:
Runesmith, rune of fury, rune of stone, rune of spellbreaking, shield.
Thane, BSB, master rune of gromgil, greatweapon

Core Units

30 Dwarf Warriors with greatweapons + full command
30 Dwarf Warriors with shields + full command
20 Thunderers

Special
1 Cannon

Rare
1 Organ Gun
1 Gyrocopter

This can be made with just two batallion boxes, a thane BSB character, a runesmith character and the gyrocopter.

This would come out on about 160 euro's of investment for a 1500 point army. I personally think the armylist is quite decent, especially considering the amount of money that needs to be invested.

Crovax20
14-12-2011, 09:33
Nobody able to comment on the viability of this list? I'd rather not splash out the cash to find out its pretty horrible!

Dreadlordpaul
14-12-2011, 09:46
The problem is you have not alot of magic defence

Crovax20
14-12-2011, 10:15
I don't really feel that way, an extra dispeldice and a dispell scroll should come a long way I think? I know its not super defense, but I was of the opinion it would suffice. My Night goblin army at 1500 points would probably have a level 4, my Tomb Kings would field a level 3 at most. So I'm guessing the average wizardlevel I will be up against will be 3. With my army getting a standard +2 on dispelattempts and an extra dispeldice I think I should get by.

Liber
14-12-2011, 10:22
Dreadlordpaul is right, you need more magic defense...

Take your runesmith and max out his runic points allowance with a rune of spellbreaking and a master rune of balance. The magic defense provided is way more important than him having 1 higher WS and AS. Just do this and i think your list is pretty damn solid.



I will make one more radical suggestion though, feel free to ignore :)

But I think you should bump your list too 2,000 by upgrading your runesmith too a runelord with Master Rune of Balance, Spelleater Rune(i have great luck with it, its soo nice to dispell and take away that one scary spell like purple sun from your opponent!), Rune of Spellbreaking, Rune of Stone, and Rune of Cleaving (a shield too)

Then you take this beefy dude, and stick him in a decent sized unit of Hammerers.

Hammerers are probably the best unit we have, with stuborn, 4+ save, and S6 attacks, and a Runelord will stay alive with them, as well as contribute to their offensive abilities.

So the way i see it, you just add 1 extra unit (expensive but ebay is your friend) and you now have an extremely competitive and fun to play 2,000 point list.

((also Longbeards could be substituted for Hammerers, they are almost as good for this role!))

Dreadlordpaul
14-12-2011, 10:27
As dwarves you need ALOT of magic defence because should you play against anyone who has a magic heavy army you will not survive I know my 2k magic heavy vamps army would love to face this even with me having to cut points in some areas point is your one extra dispell dice and scroll is going to do nothing when with a combo of my shadow and death wizard I could wipe out your entire army turn one. In fact most armys would find this army even easier to beat magic wise for example dark elves can just take a supreme sorceress with shadow 2 level 2s with death ad a level 2 with metal ad the tome of furion poit is magic plays such a part in the game now that to go with such little defence as you have is just asking to have your army vortexed away

Crovax20
14-12-2011, 10:28
Well good to see I can easily expand into 2k points. However if I am going to start dwarves it will remain at 1500 points untill the new armybook comes out (hopefully with ironbreaker/hammerer combokit). Changing the gear loadout on the runesmith will be pretty easy to do so I guess I can always try out my version and the super magic defense version.

Thanks for the suggestion!

For reference at my club its usually not too magic heavy. The three armies I meet the most are VC, Beastmen and O&G. They usually only featuer one level 4, at the 1500+ points and not much more. Last game, for example, was 2250 points against VC (with my Gobbos) and I only faced a level 4 vampire (master of black arts) and a necromancer.

The only tournaments I will ever attend are the ones of our own club, and friendly games normally don't feature dead 'ard games.

Liber
14-12-2011, 10:34
dwarves it will remain at 1500 points untill the new armybook comes out (hopefully with ironbreaker/hammerer combokit).

Ha! That sounds way too familiar...i had the same plan when i started collecting them, i kept thinking i would keep the points low and capped 'till the new book came out - which i thought was gonna be just a matter of months.

Currently as i understand it we might be able to see Dwarfs in 2013.

So hopefully you won't get sick of the core model, break down and start expanding like crazy as i did. Stay strong i guess.

Crovax20
14-12-2011, 10:43
Hehe well I also have Tomb Kings and Goblins to sate my hunger with. Just would like something that doesn't crumble, isn't prone to running, doesn't randomly hurt its own units, can do a bit of thwacking, is tuff, and isn't inherently evil. Only choices that remained after those criteria were Ogres, Dwarves and Lizardmen.

I don't like Lizzies too much so they dropped. Still a bit torn between the good ol' Dwarves and the Big Ogres. Both armies are relatively inexpensive to get 1500 points going, but I have this gut feeling (no pun intended) that the Dwarves will get some really interesting things when they finally get a new armybook. Ogres however are already shiny new and are pretty 'ard!

Zaszz
15-12-2011, 15:54
As dwarves you need ALOT of magic defence because should you play against anyone who has a magic heavy army you will not survive I know my 2k magic heavy vamps army would love to face this even with me having to cut points in some areas point is your one extra dispell dice and scroll is going to do nothing when with a combo of my shadow and death wizard I could wipe out your entire army turn one. In fact most armys would find this army even easier to beat magic wise for example dark elves can just take a supreme sorceress with shadow 2 level 2s with death ad a level 2 with metal ad the tome of furion poit is magic plays such a part in the game now that to go with such little defence as you have is just asking to have your army vortexed away

I think at 1500 points saying that you will wipe out the entire army in the first turn is a bit more than exageration... Number one you could roll poorly for winds of magic, and have all those points wasted (which is a lot at 1500 points), two you are still against a scroll, so you would have to get 2 sets of doubles on exactly the big spells you are trying to aim at his major units, and three he does pick up an extra dispell die, so often he could scroll one spell, and pour dice into the other, finally you might fail to cast as well. Oh and don't forget if you don't spend the points on the upgrades your vampires may not have the spell you want.

I do agree bringing the item that lets him steal a power die is probably a good choice to help, but its not required to play. Dwarves are much faster now and at 1500 points you won't see often 2 lvl 4 mages trying to pour on the damage, its just a huge risky investment. At 1500 you are more likly to see a lvl 4, or a lvl 3 and a lvl 2.

Just to sum up my point of view on this specific example, I think dwarves would contact your lines within 2 turns given new speed rules, and if 1 turn you roll poorly ( on casting, or winds of magic), or he rolls well for defense, and the 2nd turn he uses his scroll which essentially gives him a free pass for that turn, then you are looking at him making it to your lines unmolested.

Meanwhile he has a cannon, organ gun, and gyrocopter softening you up, and your army is nerfed once he makes it to your lines because you dropped a huge chunk of points on 2x lvl 4 mages.

In my experience hes got enough for 1500 points, and the only suggestion I have would be to try to get the item that lets you steal a power die and turn it into a dispell die.

some_scrub
15-12-2011, 18:55
Heroes:
Runesmith, rune of fury, rune of stone, rune of spellbreaking, shield.
Thane, BSB, master rune of gromgil, greatweapon

Core Units

30 Dwarf Warriors with greatweapons + full command
30 Dwarf Warriors with shields + full command
20 Thunderers

Special
1 Cannon

Rare
1 Organ Gun
1 Gyrocopter


The list looks fine, although there are something you might end up being a little underwhelmed by. In my experience, warriors with shields tend not to do a lot; spending one more point for great weapons is basically always worth it when you're going to be striking last anyway.

The gyrocopter also isn't as great as you might think. Remember that you can only fly 10 inches if you want to use the steam gun, and the steam gun does way fewer hits than you might think because it still rolls for partial hits. (Dwarfs are old-fashioned remember.)

Also, take the rune of forging on the cannon. It's expensive, but unbelievably good. It's the kind of thing where your opponents refuse to believe what it does until they after they've demanded to look at your army book and reread it a few times.

I think those three suggestions are probably not that controversial. The following two suggestions are much more so:
1) Keep your magic defense where it is. Dwarfs have the worst magic defense in the game point-for-point. Spending lots of points on it is just a trap. Focus on dispel scrolls just to stop the critical spells.
2) Thunderers aren't as cost effective as you might think. They're not terrible, by any means, but you might find yourself wishing you just had another Organ Gun.

AM1640
15-12-2011, 19:28
Hi, I like the list. It is well balanced and should have the ability to respond to many different opponents and objectives (some tournaments win by objectives rather than victory points). Does this mean that maybe GW can create a balanced game/army but it is certain players that throw it out of whack?
Anyway, I agree that at the 1500 point level you are probably fine with the rune smith and the runes you have on him. You can try changing them as you see fit or just to try different runes from time to time.
I assume you have chosen to use the great weapon warriors as a hammer to the shield and hand weapon warrior's anvil. This balanced approach(rather than the all great weapon dwarves army) allows you to respond to different armies better and gives you better tactical flexability.
If you start to face alot of enemies with regenerate you might want to put a Rune of Burning on the cannon.

zielonkak
15-12-2011, 19:37
most armies i play against in 1500- 2000 pt games usually have a levl 4 sorcerer and a level 2...so be carefull....i would add the defense.

Crovax20
16-12-2011, 13:00
Thanks for the feedback guys! Liber's and Zaszz feedback for tinkering the runepriest a bit more are really nice as I can quite easily swap out character gear without having to add/substract models. My gaming club doesn't have dead 'ard lists or super magic heavy lists in general at the moment, so I am just going to run my list and the tweaked list from Liber's suggestion and see if it really is necesary.

i'm really pumped up for a new armybook for this race as well! Going to be hard to resist temptation to expand beyond 1500 points ;)

Dreadlordpaul
16-12-2011, 17:50
I think at 1500 points saying that you will wipe out the entire army in the first turn is a bit more than exageration... Number one you could roll poorly for winds of magic, and have all those points wasted (which is a lot at 1500 points), two you are still against a scroll, so you would have to get 2 sets of doubles on exactly the big spells you are trying to aim at his major units, and three he does pick up an extra dispell die, so often he could scroll one spell, and pour dice into the other, finally you might fail to cast as well. Oh and don't forget if you don't spend the points on the upgrades your vampires may not have the spell you want.

I do agree bringing the item that lets him steal a power die is probably a good choice to help, but its not required to play. Dwarves are much faster now and at 1500 points you won't see often 2 lvl 4 mages trying to pour on the damage, its just a huge risky investment. At 1500 you are more likly to see a lvl 4, or a lvl 3 and a lvl 2.

Just to sum up my point of view on this specific example, I think dwarves would contact your lines within 2 turns given new speed rules, and if 1 turn you roll poorly ( on casting, or winds of magic), or he rolls well for defense, and the 2nd turn he uses his scroll which essentially gives him a free pass for that turn, then you are looking at him making it to your lines unmolested.

Meanwhile he has a cannon, organ gun, and gyrocopter softening you up, and your army is nerfed once he makes it to your lines because you dropped a huge chunk of points on 2x lvl 4 mages.

In my experience hes got enough for 1500 points, and the only suggestion I have would be to try to get the item that lets you steal a power die and turn it into a dispell die.

I agree maybe it was a exageration but certain armies (Vampire Counts and Daemons) can easily get 2 lore masters at this point level

Diogenes
17-12-2011, 11:21
Im playing DE and most of our armies in 8th are magic spam. Without much defense a sorceress heavy DE army blasts this off the table I think.

With the lore of death power of darkness and a sacrificial dagger we could purple sun with the big template every turn til something gets through.

Dreadlordpaul
17-12-2011, 12:31
What Diogenes said is true I also play vampires and dark elves along with warriors of chaos and I can tell you that both my dark elves and vampires will blast this off the board with magic my warriors will just beat you in combat and shut your army down pretty quickly

Crovax20
17-12-2011, 21:23
I appreciate you guys pointing out how your uber magic would wipe me out, but I really have to take into account my local meta game on this. My local meta game simply doesn't feature the kind of lists some of you people play, thus investing more and more points in magic defense would be investing into something I would rarely need. That doesn't sound like a good plan to any of you either right? Of course if the local meta shifts, I would have to shift the list with it. Right now I feel this is a cheap way to make a somewhat effective 1500 point list, if I take it up to 2250 or higher I will most definately up the counter magic by a lot because past 1500 we do see more magic heavy gameplay happening at the club.

I think we can safely say, we are done discussing the magic defense part of the list and people have spoken up and said the armylist units itself will work and give me a decent list. Everybody thanks for your feedback!

Keith_Lupton
18-12-2011, 20:11
I have just begun with Dwarves too. One thing i have noticed is that our BSB's cannot take GW's.
My list is very similar. 2 Battalion boxes with a Thane BSB and Runesmith with RO Spellbreaking and MRO Balance. All Warriors with GW's also.
Maybe split the Thunderers into 2 units of 10. Would make great flank protectors and combine fire when dealing with bigger units. RO Forging on your Cannon.
Please excuse me for bringing up the topic you dont wish to discuss further, but the 2 magical runes for the Runesmith will cover all eventualities and make a solid base for the list.

Kaapeli
19-12-2011, 07:55
Great balanced list. I hope you gave the thunderers shields too. They double as a decent defensive close combat unit.

Just a small tweak suggestion:
The Runesmith cannot use his shield's parry save if he's using a magic weapon (rulebook page 501).

Give the Rune of Fury to the BSB instead. The BSB can't use a shield or a great weapon anyway so he's a better candidate for the runic weapon.