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Faitfull
15-12-2011, 02:26
Ah the days, where one was introduced to the magical world of warhammer

However I have found myself more and more not coming down to the local club for gaming, even though they are great fun.

I think I need a new army, something new to bring the joy back into the game.

I currently play High elves, and have a bunch (not complete) empire laying around.

However I went to this 3000pt. tournament. In the hope that it would kick me right back into the mood, and faced the fact: My high elves are way to predictable, ASF is practically boring in 8th, and my T3 armor save 5 guys is way too squishy. I avoided ending on the last place with a single point after 5 major defeats, and only 1 victory in the end. I believe I was completely routed in 4 of the games that ended with me have no elf left on the table. :cries:

I have found I am somewhat better with empire. But for some reason I find them hard to really enjoy. Perhaps too much of a horde? I don’t know, perhaps that they play too much "lets shoot em to pieces and clean up when they get close with a counter assault" To easy :shifty:

I have a hard time finding out, what army I should play.
I don’t want an auto win army, but should be able to be compitable, and before everything a joy to play. :p

Currently I am looking at:

beastmen: Should be very different, and many claim they to be fun to play.
However, concerned there is too little shooting to be fun.

Lizardmen: On paper they look interesting. They should be able to take a beating unlike my elves. Not that I mind squishy, but at 15 points.... T3
One from the club I spoke with, that have played Lizardmen warned me that he had found that they quickly became "boring to play with" comments on this?

Never been much to evil, but if they are fun, why not warrior of chaos... still issue with if they are fun, and what about the shooting face.

try to find the fun in my empire, and see where that bring me.... just feels like it would be back into the old kind of thing.

However, I am not limiting myself. Perhaps you know of a good army I have overseen!

Thanks for listening to all my rambling, do hope ppl will give their thoughts. I do want to get back into the hobby again. Not yet given up hope! :angel:

woodster17
15-12-2011, 02:33
If you are concerned about predictability and have collected High Elves and Empire then I should probably direct you towards evil armies with a high rate of unpredictability and fun.

Skaven and Orcs and Goblins.
Both have access to interesting troops, devastatingly powerful units and a weird and wonderful range of monsters (particularly OnG and that great looking Arachnarok spider). Also, OnG are 8th and therefore a very balanced and competitive list. Skaven are incredibly competitive, particularly with certain builds.

Randomness is also inherent with these 2 armies. Orcs are prone to beating each other up as much as their enemies with the animosity rule and Skaven have catastrophically powerful war machine that are equally as likely to blast their own army apart. It's never boring playing with these two armies, that's for sure. If its rock hard troops you're looking for Orcs are solid.

Beastmen too are a great choice if you're considering them. I don't see many Beastmen players and they are an interesting army choice.

In conclusion, go EVIL, go UNPREDICTABLE, cause chaos, have fun!

Faitfull
15-12-2011, 02:45
Interesting way of thinking.... However one thing I have against skaven is, that I know they are terrible to fight against. They are way to overpowered to my liking! but thanks for the advice

woodster17
15-12-2011, 03:08
Then why not be on the other side of the beating for once :)

H33D
15-12-2011, 04:34
Sounds like you would like Dwarves... unless magic is your thing.

Charistoph
15-12-2011, 04:56
I'd have to second Greenskins then. More than enough randomness and variety in the army book to keep it from being boring. A huge plethora of war machines, shooting units, infantry, cavalry, chariots, monstrous infantry, and monsters, with about half of it being able to take beatings far easier than any Elf, and the rest taking beatings as easily as an Elf. You have several different tribes of Greenskins (Plain Orcs, Plain Goblins, Savage Orcs, Night Goblins) to start your Core with, and have as much variety in their army list than Elves or Empire (sometimes even more).

Dwarfs, while tougher than Elves (not really that hard, Empire is), they are quite slow (though not as slow as they used to be), and rely on their tough infantry, firearms, and war machines to win the day. No magic in and of itself, but ways to project magic in more creative and reliable ways through the Anvil and their gear and war machines.

Lizards do offer a lot of variety, until you realize that there are certain things that just aren't as useful to take as others, and lists build themselves at that point. No doubt, though, that the Saurus are tough nuts, the Skinks fast, the Slaan powerful in their magic, and the dinosaurs being downright nasty.

Only other option I can think of that would offer a different gameplay experience would be Ogres. Concentrating on Monstrous anything (and the most recent army book, to boot), means that most of your models will be individually hard to kill. Good thing, too, as you won't be fielding a lot of them.

Trains_Get_Robbed
15-12-2011, 05:12
Both armies you have stated have the common flaw of needing auxillary support.

Whether through magic or through shooting (or even combied arms. Look for a more simpilstic army and more although more limiting (in playstyle), but more skillful/elite in stature or status. Playing WoC or V.C maybe your calling. Although V.C need magic, they are more user-friendly than H.E, while WoC are point and click.

You need to start an army with high armor vaule, and or inherently high skilled troops. (I play H.E as well, my secondary army is Brets -a almost completely revamped system of fighting their battles save for two things: movement phase and poncy-ness. :P).

Duke Ramulots
15-12-2011, 05:30
Even without changing armies you can try diferent tactics and even...gasp.. less than optimum lists. Not saying you don't mix it up as I don't know you, but it worked for me with my brets.

MOMUS
15-12-2011, 06:35
Why not make one of your existing armies more fun to run, by taking other options? I would echo what Duke.R says about optimum lists but seeing as you got trashed im not sure :p, without posting what you have for each its impossible to comment on why you might find the game less interesting.

From personal experience lizardmen are only 'boring' to play if you play 'the list' which is a light/life slann in temple guard with 2 large blocks of saurus and maybe a couple of sallies.

Faitfull
15-12-2011, 07:46
Why not make one of your existing armies more fun to run, by taking other options? I would echo what Duke.R says about optimum lists but seeing as you got trashed im not sure :p, without posting what you have for each its impossible to comment on why you might find the game less interesting.

From personal experience lizardmen are only 'boring' to play if you play 'the list' which is a light/life slann in temple guard with 2 large blocks of saurus and maybe a couple of sallies.

okay.. fair

Highelves
2 Lion chariots
1 Triote chariot
10 elunian reavers
2 dragons
at lest 5 mages/archmages
at lest 5 heroes/lords
1 dragon mage
30 whitelions
30 swordmasters
20 phenix guards
4 or 6 bolt throwers
3 eagles
proberly around 40-50 archers
and 60-75 spearmen
1 griffon
14 dragon mages
many silverhelms.. proberly like 20+ or so
5 shadow warriors
+ teclish
(special not popular in local club for some reason, problerly back from "lordwammer with friends" ed.)

perhaps a little more.
was part of a 5000pt battle once, had no problem entering

will put in my empire a little later... late for school

Kisanis
15-12-2011, 08:05
My experiences with Skaven are thus:

They *Can* be overpowered...

or they can be mediocre and a riotous good fun time.
Play a THEMED evil army and you will get some great results... You may loose, but you'll do it in style.

For example, a PURE clan Skyre skaven army is not overpowered... it may well blow itself up in a terrible green cloud of lawls.

Faitfull
15-12-2011, 09:30
Like promised, empire

along the line of:
1 hellblaster
1 hellstorm battery
5 pistolers
5 outrangers
21 knights
20 helbards
20 swordmens
30 greatswords
20 flagelants
2 priests
1 giffon
1 bsb on foot
1 hero on horse
14 crosbowmen
10 handgunners
1 canon
15 free company
somewhere like that

Faitfull
15-12-2011, 16:00
I can see mostly orcs and skaven have been recomended...

but thats alot and alot of models... how do you guys even get them on and off the table without getting tired the first time?

Personally I would like something fun, something with interesting tactical challenge.... highelves ASF make them kindof no matter if I charge or get charged unless with speers, where I wanna force my enemy to charge me. Else It kind of walk forward and see who get smashed by who.... strong magic and poor shooting.

I am still very undesided and any further discussion to bring me closer are very welcome

Best
Faitfull

Crovax20
15-12-2011, 16:34
I can see mostly orcs and skaven have been recomended...

but thats alot and alot of models... how do you guys even get them on and off the table without getting tired the first time?

Personally I would like something fun, something with interesting tactical challenge.... highelves ASF make them kindof no matter if I charge or get charged unless with speers, where I wanna force my enemy to charge me. Else It kind of walk forward and see who get smashed by who.... strong magic and poor shooting.

I am still very undesided and any further discussion to bring me closer are very welcome

Best
Faitfull

Putting them on the table isn't that much of an issue in my experience, its putting them back in the armycase. When I'm playing with my goblins (I don't have orcs, though that would reduce the issue by a lot), casualties start cluttering up my side of the table as they tend to die in droves. I think part of it is just learning some discipline and using downtime to put stuff back in trays etc. If your army has more Orcs you are already substantially cutting down on the amount of models, compared to a goblin army.

I do however agree that it can be a bit tedious clearing everything up after a game, when my opponents are done putting their army back in a few minutes I literally spend 15-30 minutes on it.

You could take a look at Tomb Kings, it doesn't require too many models and just about everything but bog standard skittles are toughness 4. It is an army that requires supporting charges as most of the time I find stuff won't just outright break opponents on their own. Oh and your shooting is rather versatile as you don't care if you move, your opponent is in hardcover or whatever, its always 5+. My 2250 point armylist has around 120 models or so in it, compared to over 230 for my Goblin 2250 list....

vinush
15-12-2011, 17:44
I play Empire, and love the variety you can have with them. They truly are a Jack of all trades, Master of none type of army, but they are great fun and have just the right amount of sillyness to them if you want it.

I also play Lizardmen, and I ,ust say that despite starting the army this summer (about 6 months ago) I have become bored with them already, and have gone back to my beloved Empire. The Lizardmen are a solid army, they pack a good wallop, can take a good few hits before being screwed over and can pack a decent amount of punch in shooting. The drawbacks to them are that your main hitty units have very low initiative, so they go last most of the time, your shooty units are far too squishy if it comes down to a fight, and you either drop a metric ton of points into your magic user, or have a sub-par magic user that is slightly over priced for his ability (skink priest). You do, however, have some of the most brutal characters than can do a massive amount of damage in combat, and Skink Chiefs are great for their points.

THE \/ince

Tuttivillus
15-12-2011, 17:56
You should definitely check out Khemri and have a really good read. They are new and very balanced. They also give you fun in every phase of the game.

Nizno
15-12-2011, 18:16
okay.. fair

Highelves
2 Lion chariots
1 Triote chariot
10 elunian reavers
2 dragons
at lest 5 mages/archmages
at lest 5 heroes/lords
1 dragon mage
30 whitelions
30 swordmasters
20 phenix guards
4 or 6 bolt throwers
3 eagles
proberly around 40-50 archers
and 60-75 spearmen
1 griffon
14 dragon mages
many silverhelms.. proberly like 20+ or so
5 shadow warriors
+ teclish
(special not popular in local club for some reason, problerly back from "lordwammer with friends" ed.)

perhaps a little more.
was part of a 5000pt battle once, had no problem entering

will put in my empire a little later... late for school

If you aren't trolling, you have plenty of options in the army to make it play way different. You could do the silverhelm bus with the lord and bsb in the unit. If you play that way already, you could go heavy magic.

Teclis is very unbalanced for 8th ed which is why people hate him. He can single-handedly win a battle against a less-than-prepared army.

Check out Ulthuan.net for tactics and list advice. You aren't using the synergy the army requires to win probably, just takes practice and they can be one of the toughest armies in the game to beat.

Also if you aren't aware (as I sometimes forget this), ASF means you get to reroll misses if you are equal to or better than the opponent's init. Also don't forget you ASF with great weapons too. These are a couple less experienced High Elf general's common mistakes. I'm not sure about how experienced you are with High Elves, so I thought I would just throw that out there.

Edit- Broke my lurker status just to post this!

Gorbad Ironclaw
15-12-2011, 18:21
Have you thought about taking a break from Warhammer and playing some other games? Now that will of course depend a lot on who else is willing to play what games but if you are burned out on Warhammer a new army might not do anything for your desire to play. But going off, playing something else and then returning could recharge your batteries in a whole different way. Besides, if you don't really have a big desire for Warhammer at the moment I would have thought it would be hard to find the motivation to do a whole new army, at least unless you are personally engaged by it. So just asking for "different armies" might not produce the kind of result you want.

Tuttivillus
15-12-2011, 18:26
Have you thought about taking a break from Warhammer and playing some other games? Now that will of course depend a lot on who else is willing to play what games but if you are burned out on Warhammer a new army might not do anything for your desire to play. But going off, playing something else and then returning could recharge your batteries in a whole different way. Besides, if you don't really have a big desire for Warhammer at the moment I would have thought it would be hard to find the motivation to do a whole new army, at least unless you are personally engaged by it. So just asking for "different armies" might not produce the kind of result you want.

Yes, this. That can be the cure.

13713
15-12-2011, 19:21
I hate suggesting other games on threads that do not contain them but Warmachine/Hoardes might be interesting for a simple change of pace. That or just go old school and start playing Axis and Allies with your gaming group (the advanced version of risk)

mrtn
16-12-2011, 10:16
beastmen: Should be very different, and many claim they to be fun to play.
However, concerned there is too little shooting to be fun.


I find them fun to play. A normal list will not have a lot of shooting, but there are alternatives with more, such as taking a cygor and a character with the bolt thrower spear, as well as some units of ungor raiders. Maybe magic could fulfill your need for ranged death as well?

If you're curious you could take a look at the Herdstone forum, see the link in my sig. :)

Alternatively you could think about playing something else for a while, maybe Mordheim? Get a small warband for a change of pace?

MOMUS
16-12-2011, 14:07
I also play Lizardmen, and I ,ust say that despite starting the army this summer (about 6 months ago) I have become bored with them already, and have gone back to my beloved Empire. The Lizardmen are a solid army, they pack a good wallop, can take a good few hits before being screwed over and can pack a decent amount of punch in shooting. The drawbacks to them are that your main hitty units have very low initiative, so they go last most of the time, your shooty units are far too squishy if it comes down to a fight, and you either drop a metric ton of points into your magic user, or have a sub-par magic user that is slightly over priced for his ability (skink priest). You do, however, have some of the most brutal characters than can do a massive amount of damage in combat, and Skink Chiefs are great for their points.

'The list' i alluded to earlier.
Lizardmen have some fun options, but not many people take them. In fact not many people take LM at all, another reason i like them.

Duke Ramulots
16-12-2011, 19:48
'The list' i alluded to earlier.
Lizardmen have some fun options, but not many people take them. In fact not many people take LM at all, another reason i like them.

Really? Lizards seem to be represented fairly well at my local store. They were my first army but I got bored with them as in the '90s they only made saurus, skinks, and krox's.