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paultwilson
20-12-2011, 23:04
I'm just starting out, I know Teclis is supposed to be an Iwin button but It's going to be my first attempt with High elves. Not a competitive setting or anything.

Teclis and the Hero BSB in the horde of spearmen.

Mounted mage in with the Dragon Princes.

Teclis - 475
Lore of Shadows

Mage
level 2
Silver wand
barded steed -161
High Magic

Noble
BSB
Shield
Great weapon
Banner of the world dragon - 180

48 Spearmen
Musician
Champion - 447

20 Archers - 220
Musician - 5
Standard bearer - 235

10 Dragon Princes
Full command
Banner of sorcery - 400

Repeater Bolt thrower - 100 1998

First attempt at a proper list, I have enough stuff in other units to get up to 3500, 2 tiranoc chariots, 1 chrace chariot, another 20 archers, 15 Swordmasters of Hoeth, another bolt thrower, 9 shadow warriors, 10 ellyrian reavers.

Should I just remove Teclis and go with an archmage with book of hoeth and spend points elsewhere?

zielonkak
21-12-2011, 00:31
i would invest in some eagles...

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
22-12-2011, 02:55
I'm just starting out, I know Teclis is supposed to be an Iwin button but It's going to be my first attempt with High elves. Not a competitive setting or anything.

Teclis and the Hero BSB in the horde of spearmen.

Mounted mage in with the Dragon Princes.

Teclis - 475
Lore of Shadows

Mage
level 2
Silver wand
barded steed -161
High Magic

Noble
BSB
Shield
Great weapon
Banner of the world dragon - 180

48 Spearmen
Musician
Champion - 447

20 Archers - 220
Musician - 5
Standard bearer - 235

10 Dragon Princes
Full command
Banner of sorcery - 400

Repeater Bolt thrower - 100 1998

First attempt at a proper list, I have enough stuff in other units to get up to 3500, 2 tiranoc chariots, 1 chrace chariot, another 20 archers, 15 Swordmasters of Hoeth, another bolt thrower, 9 shadow warriors, 10 ellyrian reavers.

Should I just remove Teclis and go with an archmage with book of hoeth and spend points elsewhere?


IMO I think you've invested too much points in core. While Teclis would even the odds in the Magic phase and the bunker regiment is immune to magic you're main regiment will get soften up by warmachine fire and small range fire. Also you won't be able to make use of Okkam's Mindrazor on the Spearmen unit until the BSB leaves/dies which counters the very reason to field such a large force in the first place. I'm not in the camp that thinks Hording up is good for every army (especially for HE ones). 50+ Spearmen will be hard to manuver around the battlefield. It also makes it hard for the unit to avoid teamplate based warmachines.

Bowfire is only effective if you have more than 20 shots per turn. Shadow Magic helps but not enough to turn the tide.

You're only other combat effective force (Dragon Princes) will probably get charged/bogged down by multiple units to be of any help to the main unit as you have no supporting elements that can delay or re-direct charges (Great Eagles would be ideal for that).

My advice is:

1) Invest in more special choices to spread out the hitting power of the HE army. Break that unit of Dragon Princes down to 2 units of 5 instead of a big block of them. This way you can double the number of attacks the units can deal without losing them all in one go.

2) Reduce the Spearmen down to 25 men and bring in a small unit of 12 Swordmasters to add some additional hitting power in close combat. This will make target priority a bit harder for your opponents since there are now more units on the table that can hit hard and can threaten a wider variety of troops.

3) Lastly I would think about getting rid of the Banner of the World Dragon. While magic immunity is nice it's a double edge sword since it prevents you from buffing the unit that has it. My feeling about BoTWD comes down to this:

Magic Immunity + great armor saves + high strength attacks = good. Examples of units that it could work with: Dragon Princes (due to their high armor saves & multiple STR 5 attacks on the charge), Silver Helms (due to their high armor saves), White Lions (due to their stubborn rule, high STR 6 attacks, & high saves vs. shooting), & Phoenix Guard (ward saves & above average STR 4 attacks).

Magic Immunity + bad armor saves + low strength attacks = not as good. Examples of this is: about everything else in the HE army.

I hope that helps.

paultwilson
22-12-2011, 16:31
Thank you very much Pointy Headed Elven Paladin, that's a massive help. I didn't consider the Occams Mindrazor thing. I had originally had 1 unit of 30 Lothern Sea Guard and a unit of 20 Spearmen instead of the 48 Spearmen and extra mage, That way I have an anvil with a Stand and Shoot option. and a smaller supporting unit.

What about giving the Archers the Banner of Eternal Flame?
I can then use them to focus on cavalry and chariots trying to attack my flanks.

BSB having Banner of Sorcery for the extra PD and the DP having Wailing Banner.

But I'm not sure about the loss of magic.

Pointy Headed Elven Paladin
23-12-2011, 03:26
Thank you very much Pointy Headed Elven Paladin, that's a massive help. I didn't consider the Occams Mindrazor thing. I had originally had 1 unit of 30 Lothern Sea Guard and a unit of 20 Spearmen instead of the 48 Spearmen and extra mage, That way I have an anvil with a Stand and Shoot option. and a smaller supporting unit.

What about giving the Archers the Banner of Eternal Flame?
I can then use them to focus on cavalry and chariots trying to attack my flanks.

BSB having Banner of Sorcery for the extra PD and the DP having Wailing Banner.

But I'm not sure about the loss of magic.

Archers is usually my choice to use the Banner of Eternal Flame on since all of their attacks (ranged and close combat) are considered flaming attacks. Having cavalry and beasts fear them is an added plus. ;)

I wouldn't recommend putting the Banner of Sorcery on the BSB since in this Edition the Ld re-rolls & considerable close combat punch the BSB gives are much more important than using a magic banner. I'd recommed going with the cookie cutter version (Great weapon, Armor of Caledor, & Guardian Phoenix) and give the Banner of Sorcery to a special unit to carry (like my suggestion about bringing in the small unit of Swordmasters if given a Std. Bearer can carry the standard). Magic banners are usually only given to BSBs if you plan on mounting them with full armor protection (shield, dragon armor, & barded elven steed) to aid with survivability.

As for the Wailing Banner psychology tests really aren't as devestating in 8th. Banners like Banner of Swiftness, Banner of Ellryion, Ranger's Standard, & Razor Standard are better suited to be used on the Dragon Princes and is more reilable in scope when planning out your strategies.

HE armies can win without overwhelming magic force but the magic lores have to combo well with the troops selected. As a sidenote Teclis is what some circles consider an unsporting advantage because he is considered one if not the best magic user in the game but IMO you want/need reliable magic that will not take out a fair chunk of your force via miscast then Teclis is probably the best tool for the job.