View Full Version : Characters making leadership tests, and it's a bit complex so just read the post.

23-12-2011, 01:07
Allright, so I was playing T10, who normally knows his rules. For whatever reason I was playing with a Cygor (I guess I must have forgotten my Ghorgon, or otherwise decided to give him "just another go! there might be something I've missed!". Inexcuseable, I know).

An Orc Shaman is on the far end of a wide regiment of Orcs. The Cygor steps within 24" of the Shaman, so the Shaman has to make a Leadership test, which he fails. However, there is a Battle Standard Bearer nearby. The regiment which the Shaman is in is within 12", however the Shaman himself isn't.

Does he get to reroll the test or not?

23-12-2011, 02:25
My first reaction is to say yes, because he is part of the unit and I think the rule says units within 24" may reroll leadership tests. However I don't have my book to hand and am curious what others will say.

23-12-2011, 02:27
I laughed at the thread title.

As to the question, as it is the Shaman taking the Leadership test he himself has to be in range of the BSB to get the re-roll.

If it were the unit taking a test, but using the Shamans leadership then it would be different but if its specifically just the Shaman taking a test (which it is) then that specific model has to be in range.

Unless someone disagrees and can present a better argument, but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

23-12-2011, 09:45
Initially I figured the Wizard would need to use his own Leadership, but since this was a Night Goblin and not an Orc shaman, I would have preferred that he got to use his General's Leadership. However, having done some research:

Page 10: Leadership tests: "If a unit includes models with different Leadership values, always use the one with the highest Leadership - warriors naturally look to the most steadfast of their number for guidance." This rule does distinguish not between tests taken for individual models or on behalf of the entire units, so apparantly applies to both.

Page 107: Inspiring Presence: "...all friendly units within 12" use his Leadership instead of their own."

It seems to me that this rule can be read as affecting "all MODELS in friendly units (within range)", but while I don't think it's unreasonable, it's a pretty big assumption.

If it holds true then the Shaman gets to use the General's Leadership because he is one of the models in the unit. :)

If the assumption is false, then the Inspiring Presence rule does not grant any of the actual models in unit an improved Leadership, and Shaman only gets to use the highest Leadership value in the unit, meaning that of the common Goblin rank-and-file.

(Also, I notice that the Inspiring Presence rule does not say what to do if the General's Leadership is lower than a friendly unit... Perhaps the General sometimes has an... Uninspiring Presence?)

23-12-2011, 09:59
(The Inspiring Presence rule was amended to be optional, IIRC. Or was that the BSB re-roll?)

23-12-2011, 11:21
I would say the rules are pretty cut and dry.

Units within 12 inches of a BSB can use the re roll and units within 12 inches of a general can use his inspiring presence. The shaman isn't a unit inside a unit, he is a part of the unit. Therefore, the Shaman gets to use the leadership of the general and the BSB rerolls.

Mind you I am primarily a beastmen player, and that disclaimer is to reassure that I am not being biased against the army. Its no secret that Inspiring presence + Hold your Ground is the bane of the Cygor (as well as the Jabber)

23-12-2011, 18:46
Since it's the Shaman making the test not the unit I would have just expected the Shaman to be required to be within 12"s.

Lord Inquisitor
23-12-2011, 19:07
Ha! Nice little conundrum.

I agree, the wizard is part of the unit therefore gets to use the BSB re-roll. After all, he can use the unit's Ld too if it were higher.

23-12-2011, 20:32
Agreed. He gets IP and rerolls since he is part of the unit.

23-12-2011, 22:06
Yup, if you are use your own leadership, rather than your units/nearby general/other reason, the situation has to specifically note this (e.g.. the errata'd Mind Razor).