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antonsuechi
27-12-2011, 17:48
Hey all I'm normally a 40k player and have decided to make the switch over to Fantasy, I have always preferred the models and the idea of Fantasy over 40k but have never had friends that played it. Now I do so I'm making the leap. Right now I'm trying to decide which army I'm going to play and have narrowed it down to three armies: High Elves, Vampire Counts, and Warriors of Chaos. I've written lists for each of the armies but still have been unable to decide which I prefer. This is the 2000 point WoC list that I came up with and was wondering if it was any good.

Lord: Chaos Lord: Shield/Mark of Khorne/ Juggernaught of Khorne/ Armour of Damnation/ Father of Blades/ Acid Ichor

Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2
Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2/ Disc of Tzeentch

Core: Chaos Warriors x20: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Warriors x15: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Marauders x20: Mark of Nurgle

Special: Chaos Knights x10: Mark of Khorne/ Champion/ Banner of Rage

My plan is to run the Lord and the Disc Sorcerer with the Knights. They will push right down the middle while the x20 Warrior squad will take up one of the flanks. I will use the Marauders as a tarpit to try and hold off bigger baddies that I need the Knights to take care of and the x15 Warrior squad will act as a reserve force to counter assault. That's my plan as of right now and truthfully I don't even know if I'm currently breaking any rules with what I have. Truth be told I haven't really been able to read through all the rulebook or even played a game yet so I'm a bit fuzzy on the details. Any help that you all could offer I would greatly appreciate.

Zirkonicky
27-12-2011, 18:18
I wouldn't put the marauders in a unit of 20 cause they tend to die pretty quickly, and they're mainly used to stall other units (though you get to kill a lot of them, they are still pretty tough!) I would lose one of the sorcerers instead and get a bigger unit marauders.

knights are kick-ass!

BattleofLund
27-12-2011, 18:45
Lord: Chaos Lord: Shield/Mark of Khorne/ Juggernaught of Khorne/ Armour of Damnation/ Father of Blades/ Acid Ichor

Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2
Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2/ Disc of Tzeentch

Core: Chaos Warriors x20: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Warriors x15: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Marauders x20: Mark of Nurgle

Special: Chaos Knights x10: Mark of Khorne/ Champion/ Banner of Rage


Lose shield on Lord, since it contributes very little* for high cost. While Lord's magic armour is nice, cannon will pick him out from unit he's with. Considering switching to Crimson Armour of Dargan, lessening threat of cannon fire.

*: mainly keeping your opponent guessing as to whether your Lord has a magical shield.

Duplicate Dispel Scroll illegal in 8th edition WFB. Maybe Scroll of Shielding or Add-D6-to-failed-Dispel-attempt-once-Staff?

Khornate Warriors gain less from being equipped with shields in 8th, since Frenzy stops them from getting to Parry. Still, it is inexpensive and perfectly legal. Musicians in all units that can have them is very advisable. Banner of Rage not the very best option for a Khornate unit.

Agree with Marauder units having to be big; IMO thirty is a bit tight, even.

zielonkak
27-12-2011, 18:54
First off way to many points in characters. I would take sorcerer as lord, a bsb champion for block of warriors, and it you want to add another cheap champ or level 1 sorcerer. The blocks of warriors only need to be 18 each run 6 by 3. I run one khorne and one mot. Give the khorne Halbreds, give the mot shields. I would take 35 or more mauraders and give them gw and mok. I would cut the knights to about 5 to 7 because 8 th edition tends to hurt Calvary, and with extra Points you could try to add unit of chosen with Halbreds, mon and frenzy banner. Of run two 5 man units of hounds and a war shrine.

antonsuechi
28-12-2011, 02:56
Ok so far what I'm gathering is drop the extra Sorcerer, change the Lord's armour to the Crimson Armour of Dargon, even out the Warrior squads to 18 each, pump up the Marauders to a squad of 40, switch over the Knights to Nurgle Mark, and then add a few Warhounds. Here's what it looks like.

Lord: Chaos Lord: Shield/Mark of Khorne/ Juggernaught of Khorne/ Crimson Armour of Dargon/ Father of Blades/ Acid Ichor

Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2/ Disc of Tzeentch

Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Marauders x40: Mark of Nurgle/ Shields
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5

Special: Chaos Knights x10: Mark of Nurgle/ Champion/ Banner of Rage

How's this look?

Tokunator
28-12-2011, 08:41
Ok so far what I'm gathering is drop the extra Sorcerer, change the Lord's armour to the Crimson Armour of Dargon, even out the Warrior squads to 18 each, pump up the Marauders to a squad of 40, switch over the Knights to Nurgle Mark, and then add a few Warhounds. Here's what it looks like.

Lord: Chaos Lord: Shield/Mark of Khorne/ Juggernaught of Khorne/ Crimson Armour of Dargon/ Father of Blades/ Acid Ichor

Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2/ Disc of Tzeentch

Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Marauders x40: Mark of Nurgle/ Shields
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5

Special: Chaos Knights x10: Mark of Nurgle/ Champion/ Banner of Rage

How's this look?

10 Knights are too many. The second rank will only get one attack each for the riders and none for the horses. If your Lord goes in here, 5 are enough. If you wish to protect them from shooting, the Blasted Banner gives a 5+ Ward. Then you can keep them Khornate. Otherwise, Tzeentch with Banner of Rage is equally good, especially if you give your Lord the Ironcurse Icon for 5 points to give them a 6+ Ward against warmachines (so 5+ for Tzeentch)


Speaking of the Lord: The Father of Blades is ok, but the Sword of Swift Slaying is better. You get Always Strikes First to strike simultaneously with High Elves and, more importantly, against anyone with Ini 8 or less without ASF, you reroll your missed attacks, helping you maximize your attacks instead of relying on 1s. Acid Ichor is also not necessary, as he can't be wounded that easily. As I said, an Ironcurse Icon is great for 5 points. If you only pass one 6+ Ward all game, it will have repaid itself 8 times.

Marauders with Shields and Nurgle are questionable. They are your cheap cannonfodder, so Khorne and Great Weapons are the best choice, as it makes them immune to psychology and lets them punch way above their weight. 50 are a blender and that for an affordable price.

Chaos Warrior build I like are: Khorne with Halberds, 6 or 7 wide (I mostly run 14 in two ranks of 7 for 28 attacks at S5) to deal out loads of attacks. The shields are ok, but unless you face Dwarves or Empire, there isn't that much shooting to worry about. Another one I swear by are Tzeentch Warriors with Shields for a 3+/5++ in close combat. That's more of an anvil build to grind down opponents, though your offense is still honourable.

If you only run one sorcerer, don't put him on a disk, otherwise he will die, even if he gets a ward save for being close to other troops. Two would be nice, but I like to play magic-heavy.

Have you considered a Warshrine of Tzeentch to boost your units?


So, in essence, drop 5 Knights, get some more stuff.

antonsuechi
28-12-2011, 13:11
Thanks Tokunator :) Your advise really makes sense. I had forgotten about the second line of Knights not getting as many attacks, still converting from 40k so I'll end up dropping the 5. That will give me the points needed to do some extra tweaking. But I have a question, if I were to give my Knights the Blasted Standard, plus the MoT, plus the Ironcurse Icon, will that all stack?

Tokunator
29-12-2011, 09:22
nope, multiple wards don't stack, only the Mark of Tzeentch Bonus to wards stack.

untimention
29-12-2011, 09:26
drop some knights.... run a unit of 6 and then spend the points on some halberds....

Also loose the both mounts

The Jugger is a dif unit type so people can single the character out.... so put him on a warhorse

Disc makes no sense really as again it singles the sorcerer out... i would mount him and stick him in with the marauders... 40 guys at -1 shooting to hit! and if some die in a miscast... it's okay

antonsuechi
29-12-2011, 21:03
Ok how does this look? I'm still ok with switching things up, these are just the things that I'm liking so far.

Lord: Chaos Lord: Enchanted Shield/Mark of Khorne/Barded Chaos Steed / Crimson Armour of Dargon/ Sword of Swift Slaying/ Iron Curse Icon

Hero: Chaos Sorcerer: Chaos Mark Tzeentch/ Dispel Scroll/ Level 2
Hero: Festus the Leechlord

Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Shields/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Warriors x18: Mark of Khorne/ Halberds/ Champion/ Standard
Core: Chaos Marauders x40: Mark of Nurgle/ Great Weapons
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5
Core: Chaos Warhounds x5

Special: Chaos Knights x5: Mark of Khorne/ Champion/ Blasted Banner

I'm planning on putting: Festus with the Halberd Warriors, giving them poisoned attackes/ the Sorcerer with the Marauders/ and the Lord with the Knights.
So how terrible is it?

zielonkak
29-12-2011, 21:40
It's not terrible. I would drop two units of hounds and with the points I would another knight or two. Other than that it looks like a normal list for woc. Only thing I see missing is a battle standard bearer.

Crovax20
29-12-2011, 21:49
Well for narrowing it down to three armies and then already having an armylist for one it seems you'd prefer Warriors of Chaos.

Keep in mind that in January the new Vampire Counts will be coming out and that High Elves are easy to start with the Isle of Blood starter set.

The issue I personally have with Warriors of Chaos is that it feels rather one dimensional. I don't really know why but it always seems to be load up on warriors or load up on hordes of marauders and throw in a hellcannon for the hell of it.

zielonkak
29-12-2011, 22:29
Crovax is pretty much right. 8 th edition hurt their options a little. But once you become an experienced warriors player it can become easier to try crazy things. I'm actually ready to start a vamp army when the new book comes out as well.

antonsuechi
30-12-2011, 00:12
Truthfully I have written up lists for each of the other armies too...I just didn't have a friend that played WoC to ask if it was a good list or not. As you can tell from the starting point...it wasn't a good beginning list lol XD

zielonkak
30-12-2011, 00:41
I think your new list is okay. It's a typical list. Warriors and marauders. Add some knights. It works so go with it.

untimention
30-12-2011, 08:26
I think starting with Warriors is a good idea, they are good solid troops. Low model count for painting, nice new models that won't get replaced tomorrow and give any opponent a challenge.

Festus the Leechlord is an interesting character but as highlighted you don't have a BSB that have become pretty standard in many lists since 8th. There isn't a current model so i would start with a BSB then if you feel you still want Festus then convert one up!

Only other mod again has been highlighted..... drop 10 hounds and take another knight. although they have a great save..... at least 1 - 2 are going to die before combat because they are gun and magic magnets, 6 + the lord means you should get 5 in combat which is a good solid number

zielonkak
30-12-2011, 10:38
totally agree

antonsuechi
30-12-2011, 14:24
I completely agree. And I'll look into the BSB instead of Festus, though truthfully I don't really get the point of a BSB. What's so great about them?

zielonkak
30-12-2011, 16:06
Additional combat resolution and reroll tests.

untimention
30-12-2011, 19:04
BSB is great as:

12" can re-roll failed tests....... Marauders, warhounds this will help! You can ALWAYS fail a test (11 and 12) so a re-roll always helps.

Also you won't be steady fast so again a re-roll for the unit the BSB is with is also helpful.

Apart from this, chaos hero's are pretty good from the start and you will gain combat res.... give him a war banner and you have +2 before you start!

Combat is down to resolution so these little things really help

antonsuechi
31-12-2011, 00:32
Ok that does make them sound a whole lot better than I had first thought. Alright I'll switch out Festus for a BSB