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Unexo
28-12-2011, 18:21
Hello Warseer.

I hope this is the right section, but there are GW and WD feedback here, so I thought it would fit.

I got a Tantalus for my Dark Eldar army this christmas. However, when I opened it, certain parts (which was supposed to be "straight" was bended roughly 30degree. Herein the big sail itself, one of it's spikes and one of the rear Scythes.

The sail is also covered in some glittery layer. Nearly oil-like. It leaves a fingerprint when touched. You can also see scratches and what I fear might be cuts in the plastic itself. I haven't tried to wash it in soap yet, or clean it. Mainly because I have decided to return it.

No other part or previous forgeworld product I have bought, have had this oil kind of layer thing. This includes 4 FW dreadnoughts, a titan, and such previous purchases.

I think the forgeworld storage center is in UK? Atleast the package was missent to Canada and we did have a long delivering time, considering it would then have been sent from UK-Canada-Denmark and not UK-Denmark.
Could this long trip have exposed the pack to some kind of heat? Considering the melt-kind of damage to the model? I believe bending the model directly would see it break rather than bend. Atleast it is not going back to the original position right willingly.

The main point of this thread, would be to hear more experienced customers if they have had similar issues and what they did.

(the giver of the gift had nicely left the model in it's original pack, and had been unopened by him)

jack da greenskin
28-12-2011, 22:59
sail just needs to be washed and scrubbed. I'd probably spray it with degreaser or something too, just to get rid of that oil.

Bent parts can supposedly be reshaped by dipping in hot water, then cold water, whilst bending it. I've found this fiddely at the best of times, and have only got it to work with plasticard, not resin.

Your best bet is to call forgeworld and ask them for advice, or a replacement.

castellanash
28-12-2011, 23:07
Only use tap water warmth never use boiling water the resin turns incredibly malleable.

Deamon-forge
28-12-2011, 23:24
Only use tap water warmth never use boiling water the resin turns incredibly malleable.

depending on the size of the part. i find boiling water work best on larger parts but i pour the water around the part not submerge it. FW will prob say it can be bent back into shape. re broken parts they will 99.9% of the time replace.

re washing use warm water with washing up liquid. give it a good clean with a small brush (tooth brush work best) and just keep cleaning it.

GomezAddams
29-12-2011, 00:19
A picture would help us - it might be easily fixed but I guess it depends on how much work you want to put in.

6mmhero
29-12-2011, 01:13
I use a hair dryer (not too close) to bend and reshape parts and have not had a problem and is easier than hot water etc.

not had an issue with the glitter like powder before.

Ravenous
29-12-2011, 01:43
sail just needs to be washed and scrubbed. I'd probably spray it with degreaser or something too, just to get rid of that oil.

Bent parts can supposedly be reshaped by dipping in hot water, then cold water, whilst bending it. I've found this fiddely at the best of times, and have only got it to work with plasticard, not resin.

Your best bet is to call forgeworld and ask them for advice, or a replacement.

Yeah the bent models thing is something I always call FW for, especially after I saw the "inside GW" video and it is poured by hand and removed. So some guy just tossed off to the side and let it warp, this is not something I am willing to pay a premium for.

Battleworthy Arts
29-12-2011, 06:55
that layer that leaves fingerprints... if you press your fingernail into the resin is it soft?

every great once and awhile the resin isnt mixed right and doesn't fully harden. If that is the case, you need to contact Forgeworld.

As for bent pieces, if you aren't prepared to heat and straighten bent pieces, then you need to never own resin figures. Its simply gonna happen. Straightening resin casts is like cleaning mold lines off of plastic figures. Its part of the process.

If you are serious about resin models, you will own a heat gun.

http://www.micromark.com/miniature-heat-gun,9404.html

Best $20 I ever spent.

Chaos and Evil
29-12-2011, 08:00
I hold resin in the steam froma kettle when I want to bend it.

johnnyrumour
29-12-2011, 15:36
For the bent bits, boil the kettle, bang it in some tupperware, pour the hot water over it and leave it a good 5-10 mins keeping the water hot if necessary. This resolves *most* of the bendyness but you can then carefully fish it out and finish it off by hand. The part that a lot of people seem to neglect is that you should then immerse it in cold water to 'flash-cool' it. I've fixed loads of bendy bits like this and none of them have ever gone back to their bent state.

In terms of the greasyness, that sounds like too much release agent. Give it a thorough wash and scrub with something like a kitchen degreaser (anything that will cut through caked-on crap without dissolving your surfaces) and a toothbrush.

Kulgur
30-12-2011, 15:24
Got to say, I don't know if it's just me but I've never had a forgeworld order that I'd consider 100% satisfactory. First order had a broken part, 2nd had heavy warping and flash so heavy it obscured details, 3rd had a missing part, and my 4th has a broken part and a filled in socket joint (so far, more may be to come).

Spectrar Ghost
30-12-2011, 15:47
Really? I've only had one order that wasn't satisfactory, an Arkurion Shadowsword with bad warping on the main body. I'm not even sure I'd consider it unsatisfactory now; I've not touched 40k in a couple years and may find it repairable at this point as my modeling skills have gotten much better in the meantime.

Edit - I take it back, it's totally fixable. My memory made the warpage much greater than it is.

LonelyPath
31-12-2011, 14:05
I guess I have been lucky since I've never received any broken parts and only had 1 piece that was slightly warped in all of my FW orders.

Sildani
02-01-2012, 15:54
I had a Cobra II where one of its wings was deflected some 8 degrees from true, so that it was 1cm different from the other wing. A dip in boiling water, a modest application of force, and immediate immersion in a bowl of ice water cured it permanently.

As for the grease, it's happened to me. Warm water, dishwashing soap, a soft brush, and elbow grease will see it off.

tu33y
02-01-2012, 21:33
i have a story related..

the other week, i bought a Bombard from "off the shelf" at lenton. i was all set to buy it, but there were several minor faults (in the usual FW standards, very minor) but, i thought, this is FITY SEVEN quid. im not standing for it.

so, i tried very hard not to sound a tool, i said im not having it. the guy was like "its a reality with resin".

so i made it clear i was not happy so the manager asked me to get all the bits i was not happy with, he took them away then a while later a guy brought them through all fixed and straight.

i could have dealt with them myself, and have done before. but... i have got to the point where i just dont want to anymore

colonel kane trine
02-01-2012, 22:22
I bought the chaos mammoth ages ago and it was great except for a warped howdah.
I rang them and they just resent me another howdah and a pile of other bits that I didnt even ask for!
Great service if im honest.

Id just give them a ring and get the parts resent

Hengest
03-01-2012, 10:48
Some varying views expressed on what we expect to get for our money. Which is interesting. We buy these models for different reasons I think which perhaps effects our perspective.
This is my take.
When I buy a forgeworld (or any) model I am not buying the model per se I am buying something I want to build ie I'm paying for the expereince in putting it together - and I want my money's worth of that.
Obviously broken or failed delicate parts are one thing, but getting a cast model to fit together is, for me, the whole point and the bigger the challenge the better.
If I'm spending lots of money on a model then I want to get at least that amount of challenge and effort over building the item and getting it to look the way I want it to.
If I wanted a snap together kit with little effort involved I'd get some lego. For the price the forgeworld kits should be more like proper models than toys. For the money that I've spent I want lots of parts, lots of fiddling about and thereby effort on my part to try and do a good job with what bits they have sent me - can I get it looking as good as the photos without breaking anything - and if I do (which happens every now and then) how should I best fix it again
If I can put something together easily or in little time personally I would feel robbed and that my money had been wasted.
Straightening parts, altering surfaces, trying to pin accurately and dealing with air bubbles, generally fixing it, is part of the enjoyment for me. Otherwise it would be too easy - and not worth my money or time.

As I said, that is what I'm paying for - the modelling experience.
Just my preference of course - but I'm an engineer so maybe I just like building and fixing things with my hands. Also, apart from occasional BFG and AI, I dont play GW games so am in no hurry to get something on the table.
Once I've built something I'll look at it for a bit and see what I should have done different then I'm afraid it often just goes in a drawer or cupboard somewhere.
Its the painting that puts me off. The fear that I've spent ages building something expensive and putting my equally expensive time and effort into it only to then ruin the thing with a crap paint job.

Spiney Norman
03-01-2012, 10:56
Some varying views expressed on what we expect to get for our money. Which is interesting. We buy these models for different reasons I think which perhaps effects our perspective.
This is my take.
When I buy a forgeworld (or any) model I am not buying the model per se I am buying something I want to build ie I'm paying for the expereince in putting it together - and I want my money's worth of that.
Obviously broken or failed delicate parts are one thing, but getting a cast model to fit together is, for me, the whole point and the bigger the challenge the better.
If I'm spending lots of money on a model then I want to get at least that amount of challenge and effort over building the item and getting it to look the way I want it to.
If I wanted a snap together kit with little effort involved I'd get some lego. For the price the forgeworld kits should be more like proper models than toys. For the money that I've spent I want lots of parts, lots of fiddling about and thereby effort on my part to try and do a good job with what bits they have sent me - can I get it looking as good as the photos without breaking anything - and if I do (which happens every now and then) how should I best fix it again
If I can put something together easily or in little time personally I would feel robbed and that my money had been wasted.
Straightening parts, altering surfaces, trying to pin accurately and dealing with air bubbles, generally fixing it, is part of the enjoyment for me. Otherwise it would be too easy - and not worth my money or time.

As I said, that is what I'm paying for - the modelling experience.
Just my preference of course - but I'm an engineer so maybe I just like building and fixing things with my hands. Also, apart from occasional BFG and AI, I dont play GW games so am in no hurry to get something on the table.
Once I've built something I'll look at it for a bit and see what I should have done different then I'm afraid it often just goes in a drawer or cupboard somewhere.
Its the painting that puts me off. The fear that I've spent ages building something expensive and putting my equally expensive time and effort into it only to then ruin the thing with a crap paint job.

I think thats a fair comment, I have a number of high cost, epic-assemble models in my collection that are sitting in their undercoat because I'm too scared to start painting them.

My perception at least is that forgeworld models are intended for the experienced modeler, and not tiny tim who wants more mahreens to throw at the cat. To my mind its not unreasonable to require more advanced modelling skills when assembling forgeworld models.

Thats also why I feel so betrayed by the finecast range, producing something that is often harder to get together than most FW models and marketting it to tiny tim as the BESTEST THING EVA is a bit too much.

colonel kane trine
03-01-2012, 12:48
Finecasts been amazing so far for me but yep I do agree with you. I like the challenge and the time and dedication that these models require.

Im getting a few tomb stalkers and a pylon soon and I cant wait!

castellanash
03-01-2012, 13:00
Warping happens, just ring up... I recently ordered 260 quids worth of Elysians and only a tiny bit of warping on my thunderbolt... i was quite impressed....

Catferret
03-01-2012, 13:12
If you are near a GW store then take the FW stuff in to them (along with the paperwork). They will then call FW on your behalf if parts need replacing and it means you have a staff member verifying damaged parts rather than somebody calling up to scam freebies.

I had 2 pairs of badly misaligned legs in a MkV marine set and was sent a whole replacement pack of 5 guys when I just asked for a sprue of replacement legs. Can't argue with that service.

Ravenous
03-01-2012, 17:42
I found that Video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUUYvTnB6es

At 4 minutes is where you see the forgeworld stuff, so if anything is bent its cause that guy screwed up :D

Sai-Lauren
04-01-2012, 09:38
About the only time I had a major problem with a Forge World order (a Night Spinner which was missing the guns, and I didn't get around to opening it for a year), I let them know and they sent the parts out pretty much in that days post.

Warped parts - as already said, heat the area up gently (either water from the hot tap or a hairdryer) and bend it to the correct shape. You might need to do it in small increments though, or take 2 or 3 goes at it to get it completely right, as the resin will retain some memory of its position and try and bend back.

If you can make a frame from something like lego to hold it, that could help. :)

If it's broken (and beyond what you consider reasonable repair) or missing pieces, then let Forge World know - chances are they won't even ask for a return or a photo to prove it, they'll just ship the replacement parts out as soon as possible.

Bael
06-01-2012, 14:35
The warping as others have mentioned can be fixed by soaking in hot water for 5 minutes, bending it into shape then dunking it in cold water. I'd also recommend not soaking resin in hot water in a bowl, as the resin will curve to fit the base of the bowl as it soaks. Use something with a flat base.

I've had major problems with Forgeworld in the past year. I've placed 3 orders and all of them needed something replacing due to miscasts. I've emailed photos each time and they have sent out repalcements immediately. Good service, and I have a couple of extra kits to use as wreck markers now, but I wish their QA would just improve to begin with. Some models I've received even have part of the mold still attached!

Unexo
23-04-2012, 19:51
Well it might be dumping an old threat. I just wanted to update everyone with how it settled. The order was made around 5-7th december. Anyway, the order made it just in time for Christmas as I've noted before.

I wrote to Forgeworld right away about these issues, the first without picture, and a second time with pictures. A reply came after the second email, suggesting like everyone here to clean the model and use hot water. Albeit I tried, I first of all didn't have a bowl big enough with a flat surface to cover the larger parts, but second of all it stroke me that I should not be the one spending several days of working hours to fix this warping.

So I replied I would like to have the parts replaced. I sent 10 emails trying to explain this, over four months. In the end i blantly stated "How do I get my money back". And they did not reply a single time. Order number, previous answer, pictures was all included in all of the emails. Honestly I feel cheated, their first mail being some sort of thing to make me go away? I don't know. Anyway, my only option was to drive 30min to my local GW. I did this two times, as the first was a saturday or sunday I believe, hence FW's support had closed. Both of the times and different staff absolutly agreed it was outrageous of Forgeworld. I showed the model, and the emails, and the mail Forgeworld has sent. In the end, I was told GW could not help me returning the product, and I had to go home and pay for the order to be sent back to Forgeworld in UK.

So this is where it is now, after five months of attempted communication FW has got a package and I hope they will return the money. In the end, it has nearly cost me more to return the model of wasted time and travel/postage expenses, and time is not something I got much of sadly. So there is is, I'm just so pissed at how FW has turned out to be. They were so great 5 years ago. Also a second thing, god their finecast resin is terrible. I got a company banner from those scorpions from one of those bits sites, and it it's just as bad as GWs :(

Rick_1138
24-04-2012, 12:39
I have had very few issues with FW stuff, the most recent issues were with a lufgt huron, his shoulder pad was very thin and bent, which wasnt much but as this was a display\sale model i needed a better sculpt. I also received in this order the severin loth librarian and guard.

I sent an e-mail to FW asking if i could get a replacement arm, this was fine they asked for batch number and date of purchase.

Never heard anything back for a couple of weeks, so i e-mailed again, still nowt, so sent a polite but firm e-mail asking what was the story, i received a nice reply from Ead the FW rep and he explained it was a small staff etc which was fine, i said no probs i was just curious.

a week later a massive box arrived!! basically they just red sent the order out again...75 worth!! so i now had 2 sets of the original order, so my mate got the extra severin loth and guard, he was a happy chappy, and i got my arm, all perfect this time.

FW have always been above and beyond in their customer service, its the one thing GW actually are very good at, returns.

Just give them an e-mail and attach some pics, they are usually very helpfull.

Unexo
24-04-2012, 13:59
The thing is, I did and I did. 10 Emails, 2 GW Trips, one call, over 4 months, sent start of december, first complained end of december, contact made to resolve the issue in april. My patience has been tested plenty and there has been enough time to "send" anything inbetwean mails. It's not like I've sent emails every single day nagging them. The reply they gave was nice, true, but why not respond afterward.

Sildani
24-04-2012, 14:33
Try calling. It might be expensive, but you'll get your answers immediately. FW also has a Facebook page they monitor.

eldargal
24-04-2012, 14:42
Not to sound rude or dismissive, but warping is something that can be dealt with incredible easily at home, as has been said, and not having a bowl big enough just sounds pathetic to be blunt. Do you have a sink? Hold the piece under hot running water and jsut be caareful not to drop it, or fill the sink with aforementioned hot water. Otherwise pick up a large mixing bowl from a thrift store for like 50p or whatever the local equivalent is, I understand your frustration but it seems like you've made this more difficult than it needed to be, though of course it could be you did get a kit so warped as to be irredeemable.

I realise it is beyond that point now, but for future reference...

6mmhero
24-04-2012, 15:00
I have only had one problem with FW's customer service and that was years ago.
Aside from that it has been great and stuff has been replaced really easily.

A hair dryer works quite well at heating resin for bending and shaping, just don't old it too close.

Hopefully you get your money back and a response as to why they never replied.

EmperorNorton
24-04-2012, 15:11
Not to sound rude or dismissive, but warping is something that can be dealt with incredible easily at home, as has been said, and not having a bowl big enough just sounds pathetic to be blunt. Do you have a sink? Hold the piece under hot running water and jsut be caareful not to drop it, or fill the sink with aforementioned hot water. Otherwise pick up a large mixing bowl from a thrift store for like 50p or whatever the local equivalent is, I understand your frustration but it seems like you've made this more difficult than it needed to be, though of course it could be you did get a kit so warped as to be irredeemable.

I realise it is beyond that point now, but for future reference...

Or maybe, just maybe, the pathetic thing here is a company allegedly selling premium products and certainly asking for premium prices delivering something that was unusable, expecting the customer to fix it and ignoring further complaints.

eldargal
24-04-2012, 15:21
Right, because god forbid we expect hobbyists to have some hobby skills.

Hendarion
24-04-2012, 15:23
That's not the point, eldargal. They might expect that a customer is able to fix it. But
1) he shouldn't have to
and
2) the customer service ignoring him is an absolute no-go.

eldargal
24-04-2012, 15:35
I'm not denying that FW have handled this poorly (which itself is unusual in my own experience), I'm just saying from the information he has presented he may not have needed to get FW involved at all if he had just followed peoples advice and indeed the advice from FWs own guide on their website. FW is what it is, whether or not it should be better is irrelevent, if you aren't willing to put up with the fact you will have to straighten some resin you probably shouldn't be buying it because chances are you will need to.

Complaining about bendy FW resin is akin to complaining about mouldlines, it's going to happen, just deal with it and move on. Unless, as I said, he did have an irredeeemable kit but until he posts pictures we won't know.

Binky
24-04-2012, 17:51
Have to agree with Eldargal, complaining about thin pieces of a resin kit being warped is a bit like complaining that the kit you bought came in lots of little pieces and wasn't painted!

shelfunit.
24-04-2012, 18:30
Have to agree with Eldargal, complaining about thin pieces of a resin kit being warped is a bit like complaining that the kit you bought came in lots of little pieces and wasn't painted!

Except with the majority of resin from many other retailers there is little to no warping. Complaining is fair - to the OP, if you really feel strongly about it consider getting legal advice on what you can do.

Unexo
24-04-2012, 19:19
Woah, legal advice is indeed a bit much. When you really get down and call, FW is someone you can talk with. But I do complain about their level of service, if they provide an email adress. Then you should be able to get answers at a reasonable rate, meaning roughly 10 replys from 10 emails, albeit a few might slip. Emailing is for me a lot easier, as I can accurately explain my issue. My english is extreamly bad when I speak, because it is so untrained. So having the time and ability to corrently explain my issue through a phone is by all means not preferable.

As for the Forgeworld kits "expect it all to be warped" is fair. The orders I had 4 years ago, including 4 dreadnoughts, 1 titan and black templar conversion bits, had a 100% rate of absolutly prime perfect parts without warping, perfect consistensy. This is the reason I expect the same, now that I order 4 years later. I would say Forgeworld could label certain kits as "professional only"- a kind of stamp to explain, that this kit comes is highly expected to contain warped and a certain level of expertise (magnets, special issue tools, exteroridinary manwork(such as fixing warping)). If this was the case, I would not complain. I would avoid the kits they know are warped all the time. The Tantalus is one of these. Forgeworld actually stopped production of more Dark Eldar vehicle kits, because they can't deliver the resin to make these kits. It simply gets too thin and hence warped, damaged, scrateched, in the process.

I did some research while this was going on, and I was unable to find a single online blog, picture or post about the Dark Eldar Tantalus, which did not contain the exact same issue as I experienced. And there are 3 ways people deal with it. 1) Professional experienced hoppist who see it as a challenge and actually manages to get an exteroridinary model out of it. 2) The gamer who glue the parts together anyway, and do not wash, file or greenstuff anything. 3) The gamer who either complain for parts or return who know that getting a pretty model out of this is out of his time or skill level.

But I do really like the kit, and in the future (lesson learned hu?) I will probably be working with a professional who can do the assemply for me, in cases like FW where parts just have the quality the forging process delivers. For me; warping is not a fun part of the hoppy. And that's why I do Warhammer, because it is fun to glue, paint, and play. I doubt Forgeworld will refuse refunding the money, but if they ever did, then I would probably go to GW a third time and handing them over a gift. Because that model is acid and a continuous waste of money from my part. If anything, I could be an honour to see it pained and assembled in the shop. Alas ;)

I admit I am the last one, and I did have some (perhaps wrong) expetations about the state and quality of Forgeworld kits. But then I should be able to communicate with Forgeworld, and either get a refund or parts replaced. I'd happily have gotten the parts replaced, returning the malfunction bits in the Games Workshop. I am not here to get bonus bits. But somehow I get the feeling, that they know every Tantalus bit will have the issues, and just kept ignoring me until the inevitable refund.


(Also as a small note, I've actually spent more money on miniatures outside GW (per year) for the first time ever, including where my refund will go. And honestly they got competition. When others can deliver perfect resin, metal, special issue bits and unique characters with a 100% failure free rate (and make a solid business out of it), then theres actually reason to look elsewhere when my personal experience of finecast contains small errors. Keep in mind I actually haven't returned a finecast yet, but it is a mini-game to "find 5-errors" like when you were a kid, which can be extended to "find 10-errors" on some kits ;D. /And finecast for me will often fall in catagory 1-2 I descriped above. I can fix it with greenstuff and a bit of bubbles never hurt a nurgle or nid, for example)

AndrewGPaul
25-04-2012, 08:37
Bear in mind last weekend was Salute in the UK and Adepticon in the US. I doubt there was anyone in the office from about Thursday, and they'll be busy since then fulfilling orders placed at the shows.

If you're not happy with something, by all means complain. Apart from anything else, a steady volume of complaints might let them know their product quality is generally below par. On the other hand, the hot water trick is definitely much quicker than phoning Forge World and waiting for a replacement. It's not a matter of "putting up with poor quality" or anything like that, it's simply a matter of getting an acceptable product in the quickest way possible.

Rick_1138
25-04-2012, 10:19
I would say that warped parts are an (unfortunate) part of resin models, speaking as an aircraft modeller also, aftermarket resin parts for these kits can be a lot worse, especially when wings or fuselages HAVE to be straight to fit properly to the original plastic kit, then you will see that warped parts from FW are not unusual when you start getting bigger than an individual figure model etc. Warm water and some patience will sort most warping, however that doesnt mean it should be dismissed out of hand.

Part of the problem i have found on warseer is that a lot of the issues of returns are exacerbated byt people not being in the UK, i have found that any returns or exchanges or replacements from FW have arrived quickly and without issue, but once we get out of europe, it slows right down and this can frustrate a lot of people.

However i would always contact FW if a model had issues with miscasts, mold slip, or breakages etc, and FW have always beeen happy to send replacements usually with no return of the original required! However this is easier in the UK than from the states. The best bet would be to phone once, have records of your e-mail dates you sent and to whom, and your batch number etc and see where that gets you, obviously if your english isnt great, explain that at the outset and try and be patient. The FW bunch arent a huge team, and no one mans the phones all the time so it can take a few times to get a response.

Hope you can get it sorted.

6mmhero
25-04-2012, 14:44
Except with the majority of resin from many other retailers there is little to no warping.

Not really true from my experience and especially not the case when I was at Salute looking at models on Saturday. A number of the companies whom I looked at just said o you need to fill this or bend this. It is expected with resin, however don't get me wrong sometimes companies FW included really drop the ball with either quality and or follow up customer service and it seems in the Op's case FW have let themselves down massively.

Regarding the OP's tantalus, a friend of mine had a Tantalus kit that he had to return for the same reasons and he is always happy for minor adjustments etc but said there was so much wrong with it that he didn't want the hassle or the potential to brake parts etc and this was only three weeks ago.

Gondrak
25-04-2012, 14:58
next time you are going to buy a car, you get it without wheels and paint. but you get some wheels and spraypaints.
its really easy. do it yourself.
thats what you paid for.. or maybe it isnt?

loveless
25-04-2012, 17:52
next time you are going to buy a car, you get it without wheels and paint. but you get some wheels and spraypaints.
its really easy. do it yourself.
thats what you paid for.. or maybe it isnt?

That's a pretty bad analogy.

Bends in resin tend to be easy fixes - more akin to having to wash a car or change the oil, it's part of the maintenance of resin. If you don't want to deal with that, don't buy resin - similarly, don't buy a car, use public transit instead, etc.

If you buy a car without wheels and paint...well, that's pretty obvious and it shouldn't take you by surprise :p. You only have a case if you bought the car blind (which is, I'm sure most would agree, insane) and it wasn't noted that the car requires paint and wheels. Models are a bit like a car without wheels and paint...you don't get glue and paint included with most model purchases.

A bent resin model is servicable, as is a wheel-less car. However, if you don't want to do the work or are otherwise incapable of doing the work, you should be able to return the purchase for a refund.

Hengest
25-04-2012, 18:49
next time you are going to buy a car, you get it without wheels and paint. but you get some wheels and spraypaints.
its really easy. do it yourself.
thats what you paid for.. or maybe it isnt?

You would if it was a kit car - A nice Dutton (do they still make them?)

Yodhrin
25-04-2012, 19:32
Well it might be dumping an old threat. I just wanted to update everyone with how it settled. The order was made around 5-7th december. Anyway, the order made it just in time for Christmas as I've noted before.

I wrote to Forgeworld right away about these issues, the first without picture, and a second time with pictures. A reply came after the second email, suggesting like everyone here to clean the model and use hot water. Albeit I tried, I first of all didn't have a bowl big enough with a flat surface to cover the larger parts, but second of all it stroke me that I should not be the one spending several days of working hours to fix this warping.

So I replied I would like to have the parts replaced. I sent 10 emails trying to explain this, over four months. In the end i blantly stated "How do I get my money back". And they did not reply a single time. Order number, previous answer, pictures was all included in all of the emails. Honestly I feel cheated, their first mail being some sort of thing to make me go away? I don't know. Anyway, my only option was to drive 30min to my local GW. I did this two times, as the first was a saturday or sunday I believe, hence FW's support had closed. Both of the times and different staff absolutly agreed it was outrageous of Forgeworld. I showed the model, and the emails, and the mail Forgeworld has sent. In the end, I was told GW could not help me returning the product, and I had to go home and pay for the order to be sent back to Forgeworld in UK.

So this is where it is now, after five months of attempted communication FW has got a package and I hope they will return the money. In the end, it has nearly cost me more to return the model of wasted time and travel/postage expenses, and time is not something I got much of sadly. So there is is, I'm just so pissed at how FW has turned out to be. They were so great 5 years ago. Also a second thing, god their finecast resin is terrible. I got a company banner from those scorpions from one of those bits sites, and it it's just as bad as GWs :(

I'm sorry but if you're expecting people to be outraged on your behalf, you'll be waiting quite a long time. I had a FW part that was too big for any of the dishes or bowls I owned, do you know how I fixed that issue? I spent 80 pence on a 2 litre tub of "value" ice cream and emptied the crappy ice cream into the bin; problem solved, even titan parts can be fully immersed in it. Sometimes resin models go together like a dream, sometimes they require substantial preparatory work; if you're going to throw a "customarz r alwez rite!" hissy fit when the latter happens, you shouldn't be buying resin models. All, ALL of the things you are moaning about, and acting like FW treated you poorly over, ALL of them are explained and solutions given in the PDF that FW have had on their website pretty much since its inception.

I honestly don't get this kind of stuff; if some numpty parent comes into GW and buys a box of Marines for little timmie, then comes back in months later and demands their money back because you have to clean, scrape, assemble, and paint them, they'd be laughed into the street, but when someone -especially someone who has apparently bought from FW before and so should be well aware- buys a resin mini and then doesn't want to spend an hour bending parts or toothbrush-scrubbing, they expect everyone to reinforce their mistaken impression that they've suffered a massive injustice :eyebrows:

In this case, the customer is most definitely not right.

Hendarion
25-04-2012, 21:18
Rarely seen such rubbish, Yodhrin. If he feels like the product doesn't match his expectations, for *whatever* reason, he *always* may ask for replacement of refund. No matter what you think about it, it is his right to do so. Apart of that I wonder how exactly you are able to judge upon him. It may only be 80 cent, but he shouldn't even need to *bother* to waste time on going to buy anything or spend time on fixing it. He may, but he doesn't need to.
The worst thing here isn't that he wants to return it (wtf, it is his damn right to!), it is about Forge World not replying to any of his 10 (!!!) emails over quarter a year which is clearly unacceptable.

Unexo
25-04-2012, 21:42
I'm sorry but if you're expecting people to be outraged on your behalf, you'll be waiting quite a long time. I had a FW part that was too big for any of the dishes or bowls I owned, do you know how I fixed that issue? I spent 80 pence on a 2 litre tub of "value" ice cream and emptied the crappy ice cream into the bin; problem solved, even titan parts can be fully immersed in it. Sometimes resin models go together like a dream, sometimes they require substantial preparatory work; if you're going to throw a "customarz r alwez rite!" hissy fit when the latter happens, you shouldn't be buying resin models. All, ALL of the things you are moaning about, and acting like FW treated you poorly over, ALL of them are explained and solutions given in the PDF that FW have had on their website pretty much since its inception.

I honestly don't get this kind of stuff; if some numpty parent comes into GW and buys a box of Marines for little timmie, then comes back in months later and demands their money back because you have to clean, scrape, assemble, and paint them, they'd be laughed into the street, but when someone -especially someone who has apparently bought from FW before and so should be well aware- buys a resin mini and then doesn't want to spend an hour bending parts or toothbrush-scrubbing, they expect everyone to reinforce their mistaken impression that they've suffered a massive injustice :eyebrows:

In this case, the customer is most definitely not right.

Being outraged on my behalf is a rubbish interpetation of the point I have tried to make. i am sorry, that your point of view is that a company can directly ignore a customer. You are obiviously a veteran and done a lot of forgeworlding too. But my vulcan mega bolter was not bent 45 degree and my torso on my titan did not have the same flat surface as a corrugated cardboard. Actually i dont see why you don't see my real complaint. Or the actual reason to debate.

Though fact is, FW is getting more and more common. Buy a tanatlus and see. Actually i'd like to hear from people who did. It deserves a debate. We know gw models needs just to be glued to work fairly, to market the young. But there needs to be a limit. For me, getting the sail correct on the tantalus would have been impossible. It had simply melted to fit the way the order was packed or so. No simple one direction bending, yet you want the correct curve intended.

But to be honest, my main complaint is the service. Could have been fixed if they had replied to my third email, why were there a complete radio(email) silence and a need to contact gw several times before anything was heard from them. The store managed also sent an email to FW directly, which they did not respond or react upon either. I am truely critic, but believe me, it is with good intentions. There are things that can be improved in the way they handle customer support. Emailing should be a viable option when you basicly deliver all the information and proofs they need, especially when you get assigned/reply to an employees more direct mail (i suppose) so why ignore my answers to that email.

carlisimo
26-04-2012, 02:11
the other week, i bought a Bombard from "off the shelf" at lenton. i was all set to buy it, but there were several minor faults (in the usual FW standards, very minor) but, i thought, this is FITY SEVEN quid. im not standing for it.

so, i tried very hard not to sound a tool, i said im not having it. the guy was like "its a reality with resin".

Fair enough, and I'm glad they fixed it for you, but it really is quite normal. In the beginning Forgeworld marketed itself to experienced military modelers who wanted to stay in the 40k universe. We're used to rare planes and tanks only being available as short-run kits. That means resin pieces that don't fit together very well (or worse, vacuform), and high prices due to the low sales volume.

Forgeworld is going mainstream, in part because GW's prices are getting a bit close to FW's. That's the effect of moving larger volumes of stuff: more money to work with, but also higher expectations among customers who aren't just experienced modelers anymore. Older kits will still be difficult though, and even the newer stuff won't ever reach Tamiya or Hasegawa levels of easy assembly.

Vivie84
26-04-2012, 02:20
When I purchased my Chaos Warhound titan, after sorting out all the bits and such, I was upset to notice I was missing one toe knuckle joint. After a phone call into forgeworld they express shipped me the missing toe joint. I was very happy with the service and speed at which they got me the part. Now ... 4 years later.. the model sits assembled but unpainted.. bad on me.

Gondrak
26-04-2012, 16:47
That's a pretty bad analogy.

Bends in resin tend to be easy fixes - more akin to having to wash a car or change the oil, it's part of the maintenance of resin. If you don't want to deal with that, don't buy resin - similarly, don't buy a car, use public transit instead, etc.

If you buy a car without wheels and paint...well, that's pretty obvious and it shouldn't take you by surprise :p. You only have a case if you bought the car blind (which is, I'm sure most would agree, insane) and it wasn't noted that the car requires paint and wheels. Models are a bit like a car without wheels and paint...you don't get glue and paint included with most model purchases.

A bent resin model is servicable, as is a wheel-less car. However, if you don't want to do the work or are otherwise incapable of doing the work, you should be able to return the purchase for a refund.

its not.
you pay for a product, doesnt matter what it is.
if forgeworld is not able to sell the stuff without damage, they should have better service, meaning every costumer can get the missing/damaged parts or his money back. or just go and put on the website and every package in big red letters "Sorry! Maybe parts are missing and maybe parts are damaged, but you are sure okay with it?!" and lets see how this goes.
the only reason, why it is, what it is (is that correct english?), is because of the bend over customers that really try to defend such hilarious crap.

loveless
26-04-2012, 17:42
its not.
you pay for a product, doesnt matter what it is.
if forgeworld is not able to sell the stuff without damage, they should have better service, meaning every costumer can get the missing/damaged parts or his money back. or just go and put on the website and every package in big red letters "Sorry! Maybe parts are missing and maybe parts are damaged, but you are sure okay with it?!" and lets see how this goes.
the only reason, why it is, what it is (is that correct english?), is because of the bend over customers that really try to defend such hilarious crap.

There might be a language barrier here.

Missing wheels and no paint are obvious "problems" and things people would notice instantly. Additionally, you have to buy wheels and paint to repair it.
Bends in resin are typically less obvious and often aren't noticed until assembly (though the OP's example seems pretty intense). You just need a heating mechanism and water to fix this.

In other words, I wouldn't consider a bend "damage" in most cases - it's just part of working with resin (like how getting your oil changed is part of having a car).

Order a Tantalus that shows up without the sail and you've got a "car without wheels." Order a Tantalus that shows up with a bent sail and you've got a "car that needs air in the tires". Very different (though both annoying!).

Bubbles, miscasts, missing pieces - those are all serious issues for any modeler, I'd say. Bends are only an issue for those not used to resin.

I'm in no way belittling anyone - if you don't want to reshape resin, that's your choice and it's your right to return the product. I'm simply saying that's a servicable and common "problem" even outside of GW/FW.

I think the goal of this whole thread, though, is not to draw attention to the fact that resin bends or what have you, but that Forgeworld did a dreadful job of communicating with this particular customer. They're one of the worst companies I've dealt with in terms of electronic communication. I'm told you need to call them, but this is 2012...e-mail shouldn't be ignored.

Forgeworld could probably save themselves some grief by putting a Replacement Portal on their site. Put in your order number, state what was wrong, add picture (optional), click send. Goes into a file for the customer service department to check daily. They evaluate the claim - if reasonable, ship out the replacement. If questionable, contact the customer.

I don't know - if they're that bad at communicating, they're probably under-staffed. Hiring some people would help, as would automating some mundane processes.

Hendarion
26-04-2012, 19:04
They're not always bad though. I most received answers about replacement orders within 1-2 days. That is more or less typical or even fast (if you don't compare it with instant-replies from Amazon).

Yodhrin
27-04-2012, 02:33
Rarely seen such rubbish, Yodhrin. If he feels like the product doesn't match his expectations, for *whatever* reason, he *always* may ask for replacement of refund. No matter what you think about it, it is his right to do so. Apart of that I wonder how exactly you are able to judge upon him. It may only be 80 cent, but he shouldn't even need to *bother* to waste time on going to buy anything or spend time on fixing it. He may, but he doesn't need to.
The worst thing here isn't that he wants to return it (wtf, it is his damn right to!), it is about Forge World not replying to any of his 10 (!!!) emails over quarter a year which is clearly unacceptable.

No, actually, it is NOT his right, it is merely something retailers generally do to avoid having to spend hours arguing with whingy entitled consumers who have come to believe that their rights are limitless. In fact, there are specific codified-in-law rules which describe the circumstances in which a consumer is entitled to a refund, and though they differ by region the generally boil down to the product suffering a manufacturing defect, the retailer incorrectly describing the product, or a very, VERY short window within which the customer can return an unopened purchase, typically days. As for my judging him, I've had to deal with this sort of nonsense myself working retail, and it annoyed the **** out of me, having to explain to some dimwitted idiot that no, actually, the fact you see your PC as some kind of magic internet box that lets you look at naked ladies and you wouldn't know what model graphics card you had if it bit you on the backside does NOT mean you can bring in this evidently opened PC game and return it because your machine is so old and decrepit it would have trouble running Minesweeper. And that's the level of complaint I see over and over again regarding FW.

As for wasting time; rubbish, rubbish and more, you guessed it, rubbish. Prepping miniatures is an inherent part of the process involved in turning them from little grey chunks into tabletop-worthy figures, and sometimes having to bend parts into shape is an inherent feature of miniatures cast in resin. The same properties that allow it to capture all that lovely detail mean that a few hours sat in a hot post van are enough to warp it, as are any number of other situations, and if that's something you're unwilling to deal with, then don't buy resin minis.

Finally, FW did, in fact, reply to his emails initially, pointing out things that he should have known already had he downloaded the freely available PDF on FW's website, and the remainder is hearsay on which neither you nor I can comment with any certainty whatsoever. If this was a thread about FW not replying to emails, why doesn't the first post mention that even once?

The OP responds below, and to him I say; What point have you tried to make, exactly, other than having a wee moan and reaching out to see if anyone wants to commiserate with you? There's nothing wrong with that mind, but that's what this amounts to, because the only discussion value in the topic is gone when you recognise that all the issues you sought to return(eventually) the product for are inherent qualities detailed in full on the manufacturer's website; this isn't a quality issue, none of the parts were broken or unusable after putting in a wee bit of work. You later turn it into an issue of communication, but that's not something any of us can discuss really because, and don't take this the wrong way it's simply a fact; we only have your word on the subject. If, in fact, you did send ten emails with no reply other than to the first two, and if, in fact, those emails maintained a calm and measured tone and were not the kind of screeds I regularly had to trawl through during my time in customer service purgatory, then yes FW made a booboo, but would you really be happy if you had received a nicely worded response which amounted to "we told you this might happen already on our website, we're not liable, once again here is now to prep the model properly, bye", followed by seven form-letters? Because that's the communication you would have received in the described scenario, and I suspect you would still have posted this thread.

Complaining about having to correct warped resin components is akin to complaining that you have to sometimes scrape a 0.1mm mould slip from a plastic model's legs, or that a multipart metal mini doesn't fit together like a precision-machined engine part, and "I've never had to do it before" is not proof of the opposite; 90% of my FW orders are perfect and require nothing more than a brief soak in warm soapy water to be ready for assembly and paint, but when I do get a 10%'er through the post I just get on with it.

Hendarion
27-04-2012, 06:20
A warped item does not match the product description. Up to some point maybe, if this is easily fixable. Not all warped items are fixable though. And I should have said that I live in Germany which allows me to return or refund *anything* I don't think it fits my expectations, no matter if it is flawless or not. If I buy a miniature and don't like it, I can return it. If I buy a computer game and I don't like the gameplay or it doesn't run on my machine, yes, I do have the right to return it and they *must* refund me if they like it or not. If I buy cloths online, I may return it within 2 weeks and the seller has to pay for the costs of the return-shipment. Ah... good ol' Germany.

Btw, better be careful when using words like: "it annoyed the **** out of me, having to explain to some dimwitted idiot (...)". Someone might think you are including him, since you are trying to explain the very same to us.

I guess though that you are just a bitter angry man who worked too long at customer service. (I hope you aren't one of those who tell me to check if my router is plugged in when I call them because the internet-ppp-servers are rejecting a connection and who tell me the problem can't be from their side - or those who talk to the mate in the next phone-box, totally ignoring my voice on the phone).

Unexo
27-04-2012, 13:21
No, actually, it is NOT his right, it is merely something retailers generally do to avoid having to spend hours arguing with whingy entitled consumers who have come to believe that their rights are limitless. In fact, there are specific codified-in-law rules which describe the circumstances in which a consumer is entitled to a refund, and though they differ by region the generally boil down to the product suffering a manufacturing defect, the retailer incorrectly describing the product, or a very, VERY short window within which the customer can return an unopened purchase, typically days. As for my judging him, I've had to deal with this sort of nonsense myself working retail, and it annoyed the **** out of me, having to explain to some dimwitted idiot that no, actually, the fact you see your PC as some kind of magic internet box that lets you look at naked ladies and you wouldn't know what model graphics card you had if it bit you on the backside does NOT mean you can bring in this evidently opened PC game and return it because your machine is so old and decrepit it would have trouble running Minesweeper. And that's the level of complaint I see over and over again regarding FW.

As for wasting time; rubbish, rubbish and more, you guessed it, rubbish. Prepping miniatures is an inherent part of the process involved in turning them from little grey chunks into tabletop-worthy figures, and sometimes having to bend parts into shape is an inherent feature of miniatures cast in resin. The same properties that allow it to capture all that lovely detail mean that a few hours sat in a hot post van are enough to warp it, as are any number of other situations, and if that's something you're unwilling to deal with, then don't buy resin minis.

Finally, FW did, in fact, reply to his emails initially, pointing out things that he should have known already had he downloaded the freely available PDF on FW's website, and the remainder is hearsay on which neither you nor I can comment with any certainty whatsoever. If this was a thread about FW not replying to emails, why doesn't the first post mention that even once?

The OP responds below, and to him I say; What point have you tried to make, exactly, other than having a wee moan and reaching out to see if anyone wants to commiserate with you? There's nothing wrong with that mind, but that's what this amounts to, because the only discussion value in the topic is gone when you recognise that all the issues you sought to return(eventually) the product for are inherent qualities detailed in full on the manufacturer's website; this isn't a quality issue, none of the parts were broken or unusable after putting in a wee bit of work. You later turn it into an issue of communication, but that's not something any of us can discuss really because, and don't take this the wrong way it's simply a fact; we only have your word on the subject. If, in fact, you did send ten emails with no reply other than to the first two, and if, in fact, those emails maintained a calm and measured tone and were not the kind of screeds I regularly had to trawl through during my time in customer service purgatory, then yes FW made a booboo, but would you really be happy if you had received a nicely worded response which amounted to "we told you this might happen already on our website, we're not liable, once again here is now to prep the model properly, bye", followed by seven form-letters? Because that's the communication you would have received in the described scenario, and I suspect you would still have posted this thread.

Complaining about having to correct warped resin components is akin to complaining that you have to sometimes scrape a 0.1mm mould slip from a plastic model's legs, or that a multipart metal mini doesn't fit together like a precision-machined engine part, and "I've never had to do it before" is not proof of the opposite; 90% of my FW orders are perfect and require nothing more than a brief soak in warm soapy water to be ready for assembly and paint, but when I do get a 10%'er through the post I just get on with it.

Okey I just deleted my initialy reply. You are discussing on a very low level Yodhrin. I just noticed more than a handfull of false assumption. Stop making my posts fit your own opinion. You are clearly not interested in a mature debate about quality issues within newer FW models and in relation to GW failcasts.

Firstly; being ignored for 4 months is a complete waste of time. Writing 10 emails trying to express myself clearly was a complete waste of time. Spending two entire days going to the GW in the city, only to find people that agree and get information an email should have contained, is a complete waste of time. I did not define the time it would take to assemble the model, as time that I've wasted. If anything, then I defined it as time I would not waste. It is not my duty to clean up for (in this case) Forgeworld inability to have an unwarped unscratched model. It should be fairly simple to bend in place, and fairly simple to wash and make ready.

Secondly where is that nonsense pdf, there are not link stating "this is what you need to know" when you buy. If anything, they probably got it somewhere small hard to find, because I've never come across such. Actually find it for me, I can't see any PDF describing that all forgeworld models comes warped and scratched. Or a list of which that does.

Thirdly, arguing for hours with me would be avoided easily by saying "no you can't have your parts replace" and then telling me the return procedure. Why would this has to be difficult like you put it.

4th, Quality comes in many shapes. You can't claim having bent and scrathed parts is not a quality issue. I actually expected roughly the same as http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-TANTALUS.html, apart from my knowledge that these models comes unassembled and like all models do.

Which leads to the point, that everything bought on the internet is able to be returned. For the mere fact that they are never as they appear. A handfull of 2D pictures are not equal to having the raw unassembled parts in real life. Where you'd notice warping and scratching.

Also, I didn't turn it into an issue about communication. It has always been an issue about communication. Among few other things. I did not suddenly change my opinion on the middle of the desert. It's a third, seventh or tenth thing you forge to fit your opinion. And why has it always been an issue about communication? Because since i adressed my concern here, before that, and until my recent new post, I heard nothing from FW. Yet why would I complain about forgeworld not responding, when I had just sent an email last month. I needed to know if my product could be fixed, simple concerns. And in the end, there was a complete blockade, and a complete inability to speak from Forgeworlds side.

I'd happily show you my ten emails, but what good would that do? I am not here trying to get sympathizers and start a cult.

Though if you believe everything in this post is a lie, then stop trolling yourself with a reply.

But calling your own customers idiots is probably the level of discussion I will have with you Yodhrin. You set the bar..

Hengest
27-04-2012, 17:58
This link might help. Its in the downloads section. It used to be on the front page if I recall. I dont think it is as obvious as it used to be.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/R/resintips2.pdf

Fixing warped parts will also be mentioned somewhere in the instructions. Usually only a quick sentence though along with another one about filling in bubbles.

Yodhrin
28-04-2012, 23:23
Okey I just deleted my initialy reply. You are discussing on a very low level Yodhrin. I just noticed more than a handfull of false assumption. Stop making my posts fit your own opinion. You are clearly not interested in a mature debate about quality issues within newer FW models and in relation to GW failcasts.

Firstly; being ignored for 4 months is a complete waste of time. Writing 10 emails trying to express myself clearly was a complete waste of time. Spending two entire days going to the GW in the city, only to find people that agree and get information an email should have contained, is a complete waste of time. I did not define the time it would take to assemble the model, as time that I've wasted. If anything, then I defined it as time I would not waste. It is not my duty to clean up for (in this case) Forgeworld inability to have an unwarped unscratched model. It should be fairly simple to bend in place, and fairly simple to wash and make ready.

Secondly where is that nonsense pdf, there are not link stating "this is what you need to know" when you buy. If anything, they probably got it somewhere small hard to find, because I've never come across such. Actually find it for me, I can't see any PDF describing that all forgeworld models comes warped and scratched. Or a list of which that does.

Thirdly, arguing for hours with me would be avoided easily by saying "no you can't have your parts replace" and then telling me the return procedure. Why would this has to be difficult like you put it.

4th, Quality comes in many shapes. You can't claim having bent and scrathed parts is not a quality issue. I actually expected roughly the same as http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer-40000/Dark_Eldar/DARK-ELDAR-TANTALUS.html, apart from my knowledge that these models comes unassembled and like all models do.

Which leads to the point, that everything bought on the internet is able to be returned. For the mere fact that they are never as they appear. A handfull of 2D pictures are not equal to having the raw unassembled parts in real life. Where you'd notice warping and scratching.

Also, I didn't turn it into an issue about communication. It has always been an issue about communication. Among few other things. I did not suddenly change my opinion on the middle of the desert. It's a third, seventh or tenth thing you forge to fit your opinion. And why has it always been an issue about communication? Because since i adressed my concern here, before that, and until my recent new post, I heard nothing from FW. Yet why would I complain about forgeworld not responding, when I had just sent an email last month. I needed to know if my product could be fixed, simple concerns. And in the end, there was a complete blockade, and a complete inability to speak from Forgeworlds side.

I'd happily show you my ten emails, but what good would that do? I am not here trying to get sympathizers and start a cult.

Though if you believe everything in this post is a lie, then stop trolling yourself with a reply.

But calling your own customers idiots is probably the level of discussion I will have with you Yodhrin. You set the bar..

I fail to see how pointing out facts is discussing on a low level, but if we're pointing fingers on that score then the moment you use a term like "failcast" quite a few people will stop taking you seriously.

The "nonsense PDF" is, shockingly, in the Downloads section, which is linked to on the front page of the site. It covers warping and correcting it in quite a bit of detail.

As for your wasted time, did it not occur to you to, I don't know, pick up a phone? It would have cost you less than the fuel/busfares you spent to go and complain to the local GW staff, but instead you just kept sending emails over and over again? You're right, I do have a hard time believing that.

As for your "duty"; yes it is. Complaining about having to deal with warping in a resin mini is akin to complaining that you have to saw wood, or pin larger metal models, or scrape mould lines from plastic models. If I use a paint that isn't water-based and then don't use the correct substance to clean my brushes, by your standard I should be calling the paint company and demanding my money back when my brushes get ruined.

I'm not bitter, as much as Hendarion might like to believe that(I wasn't aware that drawing any kind of conclusions from prior experience automatically means you are bitter over those experiences, perhaps Hendarion should publish a paper on the subject? I suggest "How I disproved every neuroscientist ever regarding human memory, experience, and learning" as a working title), I just don't think your complaint has much merit, and I've grown tired of seeing people express this ludicrously entitled "customer is always right" attitude.

EmperorNorton
29-04-2012, 00:31
The "nonsense PDF" is, shockingly, in the Downloads section, which is linked to on the front page of the site. It covers warping and correcting it in quite a bit of detail.
The front page of the site says that in the downloads section "you can find experimental rules for Forge World models as well as updates to our books." And that's it. Doesn't say anything about warping and how to fix it, so you are only likely to actually find that file when you are actively looking for it, which will only happen when you know beforehand that it exists.
While we're at it, the FAQ specifies:
"Note that as with all kits, some preperation and cleaning up will be required preior to painting. Some small areas of flash and mould lines will need to be filed or sanded, and larger casting gates will need to be removed before construction." (Including their typo...)
So they tell you there will be some prep work necessary and warn you about flash, mould lines and casting gates, but nothing about warping here, either. I can only conclude that warping is something the customer does not have to accept.


As for your wasted time, did it not occur to you to, I don't know, pick up a phone? It would have cost you less than the fuel/busfares you spent to go and complain to the local GW staff, but instead you just kept sending emails over and over again? You're right, I do have a hard time believing that.
They give email addresses in their contact information, so it is hardly unreasonable to expect that emails sent to those addresses will actually be answered. When you look at their returns policy they even state "that email is our preferred form of communication". And for those who do not speak English as a native language - Unexo has pointed out that he is among that number - it's simply easier to handle these things in writing.


As for your "duty"; yes it is. Complaining about having to deal with warping in a resin mini is akin to complaining that you have to saw wood, or pin larger metal models, or scrape mould lines from plastic models. If I use a paint that isn't water-based and then don't use the correct substance to clean my brushes, by your standard I should be calling the paint company and demanding my money back when my brushes get ruined.
Your paint example is not the same thing, because the product was not handled wrongly.
While I agree that in a lot of cases fixing a warped resin piece is easy, it is just as easy to do for the manufacturer as it is for the customer. It is not a matter of course that a product you buy new from the manufacturer has to be fixed before it can be used. But it seems that Forgeworld has conditioned at least some of their customers so they can get away with bad quality and bad service.

Lars Porsenna
29-04-2012, 00:46
I've ordered quite a few FW products, including some "big budget" items (i.e. a Titan). Resin warping is just one of those things. It's certainly possible that the item left the factory perfectly fine, and warped in transit. I had accidenially laid a box over the Bright Lances on an Eldar Nightwing, and they warped just from the pressure, so it's concievable the parts might warp in transit...

But beyond that, I have never had a missing part or broken component from FW. Yes, I've had a few warped parts come in (Bright Lances & cockpit shroud -- a compound warp on this!, and the pulsars to a Revenant). Hot water from the tap does the trick. FYI in model building I'm using tracks from a company called IMA in a 1/35 Universal Carrier, and they require that you use hot water to warp them around the suspension!

In terms from other manufacturers, I've had warped cannon barrels from both Legends and Accurate Armour (the former I was considering getting a turned aluminium barrel because I didn't want to deal with the warp, and there were air bubbles underneath in addition). These weren't cheap kits either; $70 (around 8 years ago too!) and $120 -- both were conversion kits to boot. So it happens with resin, and you need to develop the skills if you want to work with it.

That being said, FW not responding isn't a good thing either...

Damon.

Hendarion
29-04-2012, 08:54
perhaps Hendarion should publish a paper on the subject? I suggest "How I disproved every neuroscientist ever regarding human memory, experience, and learning" as a working title), I just don't think your complaint has much merit, and I've grown tired of seeing people express this ludicrously entitled "customer is always right" attitude.
Perhaps you should stop making personal offences. Just thinking loud here. These things are exactly what makes you appear to be a bitter man.

Kijamon
03-05-2012, 19:16
It's disappointing when it comes imperfect. I've had a few but to their credit the FW customer service is the best.

I had a completely wrecked set of ripper with wings legs, they replaced as many as I needed, no issue. I won them in a raffle so had no order number, not a problem - replaced.

I've had a tartaros terminator come recently without a heavy flamer, I could see where it should have been but it wasn't there. Not only did they send me the body and legs and heavy flamer as they come but they sent me the bits to make an entire terminator, head, arms, shoulder pads.

The only complaint I have about replacements is the guy saying "let me stop you there" when I also complained about my decimator butcher cannon. It's banana shaped. It's not even close to being a tiny bit bent, the main barrels are completely bow shaped and the business end is bent in the opposite direction. I'll struggle to get those to line up properly in a straight line. That's something they should have replaced but the guy told me I had to just fix it myself.

The other big issue is their instructions. They're ****. The storm eagle has about 5 parts that have absolutely no directions for. This includes one part which is really important to be put on at the right time to line up properly, at least IMO.