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View Full Version : Possible Ork Traits/Doctrines Type System



The Dude
21-04-2006, 07:55
Whilst crapping on about Wierdboyz in the rumours section i was hit by an inspiration on how to make a Trait like system for Orks.

Essentially, it's a matrix, with Technology levels on one axis and Fighting style on the other.



High

Tech Level



Low



Close Combat___________Shooty



Fighting Style

depending on where you end up, you are allowed/disallowed certain options. I'm not sure where Looting would come in the technology side of things, but I'm pretty sure you could plot all of the Clanz on this Matrix.

Any thoughts on refining this idea?

Darkseer
21-04-2006, 08:04
Orky doctrines sound like a great idea :)

Colonial Rifle
21-04-2006, 09:38
I'm not entirely convinced that a trait system would work for the clans. I would prefer some units to be clan specific or clans to have their own little changes to force org + unit limits (like the CSM codex).

For example, snakebitez get 0-3 Squiggoths (all other clans get 0-1), 0-3 boarboys, 0-2 madboys units. Oh and no Feral list (their snakebitez godammnit!).

Goffs get the Rockband special unit + maybe cheaper Nobz/skarboyz. See where I'm going.

If we have traits then we will just have a sea of generic (probably tricked-out) orks like we do with marines. While the trait system works for marines, I think the Clans have more flavour and players should be encouraged to mould their orks around them.

As an example, how many people are actually using the classic traited legions now? Not many, because as soon as they were fixed in stone and were a bit crappy, then everyone started passing them off as successor chapters with traits they liked.

susu.exp
22-04-2006, 00:41
Remember the 6 known Clans are just the biggest and best known ones. Ive stated numerous times that an Ork Clan is like a High School Clique. Most High Schools have Cliques, where certain archetypes are present. Jocks, Skaters, etc. But sometimes there are Cliques that are not wide-spread. What Id like to see is the option to give the your Waarghboss a Clan designation that affects your other options. And additional traits. So a Bad Moon WB for instance would increase the Wargear point limit for all characters. The clan options would not be available as traits and also carry a disadvantage (less vehicles for Snakebites), so that "no Clan" or "other Clan" would be a viable choice.

my_name_is_tudor
22-04-2006, 00:47
There's a lot more to the Ork Klanz than just their technology and weapons preference..

Orinoco
22-04-2006, 00:58
There's a lot more to the Ork Klanz than just their technology and weapons preference..


yes, for example some of them grow more teef and are thus more wealthy and affluent ;)

seriously, I would like traits for orks. Some general guidelines for different clans, perhaps a few different ones inside one clan, somedudes boyz, this other dudes boyz and so on. so you could do your fav clan and still have some variety. perhaps special ones for notable campaigns like armegeddon.

Toppan
22-04-2006, 01:44
no feral orks? wtf mang...thats just mean
feral orks arent a clan anyway...theyre just an accident i suppose
but...i think this type of thing would make them too much like SMs...i say no to your idea
althought i think the clans need to be defined a lot better

Da Reddaneks
22-04-2006, 02:09
Oh and no Feral list (their snakebitez godammnit!).

I will raise a drink in your honor for that one rifle! they are snakebites! Ferals, wiht their puny shooting and one base attack, are wimps! (except for the madboyz ... dems is proper orks!)


As an example, how many people are actually using the classic traited legions now? Not many, because as soon as they were fixed in stone and were a bit crappy, then everyone started passing them off as successor chapters with traits they liked.

Very interesing point there! i hadnt really thought about that. I think its really more of an ork purity philosophy argument than a game play argument but i like it. shows good orky values that you even thought of it. the clans in the current codex were really pretty much all but abandoned (until the klan rules that is) and i really dont want to see that in the next edition.

However, The Dude, i hope you keep up with your doctrine system. it would be an interesting read regardless.

jp22102000
22-04-2006, 05:05
take a look at the chapter approved clan armies list. I bet thats what your looking for. the article was in a WD, although i don't remember which one or if the rules are posted anywheres else

The Dude
24-04-2006, 07:16
There's a lot more to the Ork Klanz than just their technology and weapons preference..

Yes, I am aware of this, but one could argue that there is more to Space Marine chapters than being Sombre or Wise. This is a MODEL used to represent a complex system of cultural development. I chose 2 of the aspects of Ork life that rate highly in how they structure their fighting forces. The level of technology impacts on things like the vehicles and flash weaponry available, whereas fighting style relates to troop type availability and weapon fitout.

For example, Goffs may rate a Madium on Tech and Close combat on Fighting style. This may give them access to Skarboyz and more Nobz, but not Flash Gitz or excessive Mega Armour. Bad Moonz, on the other hand, may rate High on Tech but Shooty on Fighting Style, denying them Skarboyz, but allowing Mega Armoured Nob Mobs and Flash Gitz.


take a look at the chapter approved clan armies list. I bet thats what your looking for. the article was in a WD, although i don't remember which one or if the rules are posted anywheres else

Yes, I am well aware of these rules. just as i am aware of the myriad of other Chapter specific ruled for Marines that appeared in WD. What I am suggesting, however, is something that allows more flexibility for players to create their own Clanz. I love the way the Marines Traits system has allowed for variations, and now at least the innumerable Marine armies out there are a little more varied. The last thing I want to see is things going back to the days of 2nd ed where those Clanz were all that existed. Or like the old Ultramarines Codex from 2nd ed. where all Marine armies that weren't SW, BA or DA, were just Ultras with a different paint scheme. That's where Orks are at the moment. Either you play a prescribed Clan, or you play *shudders* "Vanilla" Orks. Using a Trait or Doctrines system would add that little bit of variety that keeps an army interesting to look at and play with or against.

Colonial Rifle
24-04-2006, 10:30
I would prefer the doctrine system over traits. Then you could have orks 'buy' the option to field units (for example, wierdboyz and looted vehicles) and specific skills (e.g 'dead shooty!' - units of shoota boyz can increase their BS to 3 at the cost of 2 pts per model). It would have to be balanced to exclude too powerful combos.

Overall I much prefer this to traits, as there are difficult choices to make if you decide to have a doctrine force as you have to buy back basic codex options. The problem with the SM traits system is that there are very few disadvantages to taking a heavily modified force - you simply take the 'no allies' or one of the other disadvantages you won't use. To be honest , I'm not a great fan of either of these systems for orks - I think their 'build your own section' should be kept to vehicles (propa Orky! :) )

I find there are alot of generic marines now with traits that are specifically chosen for battle-field performance rather than character (don't blame them, I do it myself with my codex marines!). People chop and change traits all the time, so there is no reason to build the army around them. As a result, most of the famous chapters are dying. You have to be a fluff fanatic to actually build a Crimson Fist army!

Ork Clan armies don't have to be like that - to get people using them then there must be a specific set of advantages and disadvantages to using a clan army. Otherwise, I'il just use the Orky trait system to build 'Zodgod's Wild lootaz', which have access to basilisks and multiple squiggoths - why would I ever wish to have a Death skullz or Snakebitez army if I can take the bits I like from both?

cerealkiller195
24-04-2006, 11:39
because ork players are a different breed than those marine boys! thats why!

of course i exclude all those who hop on the bandwagon once orks are released.

Eblis_Dead_Forever
24-04-2006, 13:08
Be interesting if it was done right but if it's anything like the current clan lists it will just be used as an excuse to by power gamers and band wagon jumpers to field three looted basalisks. The thing about the orks is there is so much cool stuff that if you do go for a set of clan restrictions or rules you will end up wanting to take something that you were previously not allowed to. Unless you have a very set style of play you'll find it hard to stick to a trait or doctrine system and as many of my friends found out the limitations in the guard, chaos, and marine codexs did not offer them the flexiblity of the whole list. If the orks did get one and it turned out anything like the one at the back of the guard codex I'll avoid it like the plague far to many restrictions for to little benefits.

But then again playing the orks is all about fun and if it adds some extra character or offers up more potential to a certain concept I'm all for it. As long as they do not get rid of the Kult of Speed and the Feral Orks of course :D.