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Cryptic
04-01-2012, 23:55
As well as the above poll.
Who do you think would partner up if the Primarchs were divided into 3 factions so to speak?

Firaxin
05-01-2012, 04:05
Rough off the top of my head:

Group 1: The Enlightened
--Sanguinius
--Horus
--Guilliman
--Lorgar
--Magnus
--El'Johnson

Group 2: The Mechanists
--Vulkan
--Perturabo
--Dorn
--Ferrus Manus
--Fulgrim
--Alpharius/Omegon

Group 3: The Warlords
--Angron
--Khan
--Russ
--Corax
--Curze
--Mortarion

I was most torn on where to put Curze, who could arguably be in any group.

Erikjust
05-01-2012, 05:18
I was most torn on where to put Curze, who could arguably be in any group.

Or in a group all by himself If i remember correctly Curze never did get along with his brothers he was a loner.
His combat standard was so unlike any other of the legions that none would know of him.

laudarkul
05-01-2012, 06:02
Corax with Alpharius/Omegon amazing threesome seems perfect as a disruption factor. Supported by the Ferrus and Mannus and some punch from Guilliman and Russ,this would bring some serious death.

Cryptic
05-01-2012, 07:57
Okay i would agree technically with Firaxin. These rosters are exactly what i imagined.
I was going to put up a thread for a 4 WAY. But thought that it'd be alot cooler for the 3 WAY.

Horus up there with the Enlightened with Lorgar and Sanguinius :P

TheDarkDaff
05-01-2012, 08:47
That group 1 would be insane. Horus and the Lion are the 2 most sucessful Primarchs during the great crusade, Guilliman the best logistician in the galaxy, Magnus one of the most powerful Psykic beings in the galaxy and Sanguinius is just boss.

The only weakish link (if you can call any Primarch that) is Lorgar.

TheConverter15
05-01-2012, 10:18
@ TheDarkDaff: Lorgar has a HUGE army during the Heresy as he has been recruiting human soldiers as well as "creating" more marines. Also in Aurelian I think he steals some Thunderhawks from the EC. Then he could summon daemons and other warply companions to help him :)

And I have just realised none of this would of happend if he was one of the "Enlighted" :rolleyes:

Brother Nidus
05-01-2012, 11:30
Love to see someone attempt to write up Firaxin's alternate Heresy.

Sounds awesome!


Nidus

Cryptic
05-01-2012, 11:35
Yes. Like the Dornian Heresy on B&CS. Although this isn't as simple as switching personalities and sides to the primarchs. This could mean some primarchs becoming parallel to their original selves and others remaining the same..

e.g Lorgar maintaining his loyalty but Sanguinius a blood thirsty War angel hell bent on lust for carnage (Angrons persona however angron from the 3rd faction could have Dorn's original characteristics instead to make this do-able).

Its weird to think about. But never the less exciting concept.

Bold_or_Stupid
05-01-2012, 12:54
Three groups right? This split is done with changing personalities. Mostly remove Chaos from being the cause.

Heroes (Those who accept their role and stay Loyal)

Dorn
Russ
Guilliman
Sanguinius
Vulkan
Corax

The Glory Hunters (Seek their own realm/rules)

Horus
Magnus
Khan
Ferrus
El'Johnson
Fulgrim
Alpharius/Omegon

The Bitter (Seek vengenence, enevtually fall to Chaos)

Curze (Tzeentch)
Angron (Khorne)
Peturabo (Slaanesh)
Mortarion (Nurgle)
Lorgar (Undivided)

Inquisitor Engel
05-01-2012, 14:50
Check out Bolter and Chainsword's Dornian Heresy, it describes a situation similar to the non-hypothesis you give.

AlphariusOmegon20
05-01-2012, 16:41
Rough off the top of my head:

Group 1: The Enlightened
--Sanguinius
--Horus
--Guilliman
--Lorgar
--Magnus
--El'Johnson

Group 2: The Mechanists
--Vulkan
--Perturabo
--Dorn
--Ferrus Manus
--Fulgrim
--Alpharius/Omegon

Group 3: The Warlords
--Angron
--Khan
--Russ
--Corax
--Curze
--Mortarion

I was most torn on where to put Curze, who could arguably be in any group.

I think you're somewhat close, but a little off. I think it would be more like this ( Using your list) :


Group 1: The Enlightened
--Sanguinius
--Fulgrim
--Guilliman
--Lorgar
--Magnus
--Corax

Group 2: The Mechanists
--Horus
--Perturabo
--Dorn
--Ferrus Manus
--Vulkan
--Alpharius/Omegon


Group 3: The Warlords
--Angron (Khorne)
--Khan
--Russ (Tzeentch)
--El'Johnson (Slaanesh)
--Curze
--Mortarion (Nurgle)

That seems to make more sense to me in a 3 way split scenario.

Eddie Chaos
05-01-2012, 17:51
Group 3: The Warlords
--Angron (Khorne)
--Khan
--Russ (Tzeentch)
--El'Johnson (Slaanesh)
--Curze
--Mortarion (Nurgle)



Tzeentch Space Wolves?

Polaria
05-01-2012, 17:55
Corax & Alpharius Omegon because of:

1) Deliverance Lost
2) They outnumber all other pairs :p

Vampiric16
05-01-2012, 17:59
I imagine Fulgrim would be too busy sniggering at the notion of a 3 way to get involved.

Col. Tartleton
05-01-2012, 18:18
I believe the better word is Truel, not three way.

DeeKay
05-01-2012, 21:55
Does there have to be 6 in each group? Granted, it makes things even, but some of the groups seem... unlikely at best.

My thoughts would be:

The Enlightened
Dorn
Russ
Corax (good intentions, but what's the old saying? Something about a path?)
Sanguinius
Khan?
Vulkan

The Warlords
Horus
Guilliman (the Ultramarines strike me as especially arrogant)
El'Jonson
Perturabo
Fulgrim
Mortarion (an odd one. Fights for his idea of justice, but his ideals are warped over time)
Ferrus Manus

The Bitter
Curze
Lorgar
Angron
Alpharius
Magnus

With regards,
Dan.

Peril
05-01-2012, 22:33
Some of these pairings don't work. Guilliman would not find common cause with Horus. Let's say the Emperor is lost to humanity for some reason (gets eaten in the webway or whatever). Horus declares himself Emporer (and initiates widespread worship of Chaos), and his closest brothers delcare with him (Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim).

Guilliman delcares himself Regent and wants to set up the High Lords and whatnot, much like he did after the Heresy. Most of the loyalist Primarchs stick with him, although they don't necessarily see eye-to-eye (Dorn, Khan, Vulkan, Corax, Sanguinius, Ferrus, Russ).

Lion of course thinks he is the best, and thus declares himself (as the "I can do better than the Emperor did" party). The Primarchs disatisfied with the Emporer for whatever reason but not really into Horus or Chaos go with him (Perturabo, Curze, Magnus, Alpharius).

That leaves us with:

Group 1: Loyalists
Guilliman
Dorn
Khan
Vulkan
Corax
Sanguinius
Russ
Ferrus

Group 2: Better than the Emperor
Lion
Perturabo
Curze
Magnus
Alpharius

Group 3: Chaos
Horus
Lorgar
Angron
Mortation
Fulgrim

Group 1 has a numeric and logistic advantage
Group 2 has all the non-linear stuff and a tactician who would know what to do with them
Group 3 has the backing of Chaos, and the element of surprise

Cryptic
06-01-2012, 00:23
Check out Bolter and Chainsword's Dornian Heresy, it describes a situation similar to the non-hypothesis you give.

Already stated before that this is slightly based off that concept apart from its a more depthly comparison.


Tzeentch Space Wolves?

Yes, The Wolves are feral like and do not forget that they are wolves? Who change on the full moon from common superstition? The cursed 13th Company of SW returned from the EoT remember and that such exposure can exploit and provoke the Space wolves flaw resulting in CHANGE. Tzeentch is all about change and manifests itself in variation.


I imagine Fulgrim would be too busy sniggering at the notion of a 3 way to get involved.

If he was to remain tainted, yes its probable that he'd lock himself away on his ship and *******ate at the pleasures of seeing/knowing and hearing of such wicked desires.


I believe the better word is Truel, not three way.

Sorry, it does sound like i'm referencing a giant multi primarch/legion orgi-fest. eek.


Some of these pairings don't work. Guilliman would not find common cause with Horus. Let's say the Emperor is lost to humanity for some reason (gets eaten in the webway or whatever). Horus declares himself Emporer (and initiates widespread worship of Chaos), and his closest brothers delcare with him (Lorgar, Angron, Mortarion, Fulgrim).

Guilliman delcares himself Regent and wants to set up the High Lords and whatnot, much like he did after the Heresy. Most of the loyalist Primarchs stick with him, although they don't necessarily see eye-to-eye (Dorn, Khan, Vulkan, Corax, Sanguinius, Ferrus, Russ).

Lion of course thinks he is the best, and thus declares himself (as the "I can do better than the Emperor did" party). The Primarchs disatisfied with the Emporer for whatever reason but not really into Horus or Chaos go with him (Perturabo, Curze, Magnus, Alpharius).

That leaves us with:

Group 1: Loyalists
Guilliman
Dorn
Khan
Vulkan
Corax
Sanguinius
Russ
Ferrus

Group 2: Better than the Emperor
Lion
Perturabo
Curze
Magnus
Alpharius

Group 3: Chaos
Horus
Lorgar
Angron
Mortation
Fulgrim

Group 1 has a numeric and logistic advantage
Group 2 has all the non-linear stuff and a tactician who would know what to do with them
Group 3 has the backing of Chaos, and the element of surprise

But suppose that Horus never turned to chaos. He would be best comraded (if thats even a word) with his brother Guilliman who shares very much everything in terms of tactical awareness.

Firaxin
06-01-2012, 01:28
But suppose that Horus never turned to chaos.
Right. That's what I was originally thinking when I made the Enlightened/Mechanist/Warlord groups up above. All three groups could harness Chaos in some way, or none of them. We can imagine anything we want.

Anyways, when I called them "Enlightened" I didn't really mean what some of you seem to be implying. Basically--

The Enlightened: Primarchs with the most strategic prowess, the grand thinkers with the most charisma, who have the best qualities to partake in nation building, etc. Lorgar (for instance) must certainly be charismatic to seduce so many with his religious cult, helping him fit here. But among the 'enlightened,' it wouldn't be a cult--it would be official--since the group would conclude their faction would be better off with a singular, uniting state religion (making him a grand-thinking charismatic nation builder).
Faction Traits: Most strategic mobility, most loyal subjects, greatest average standard of living, strongest economy, strongest culture (ie, more likely to infect someone else's culture than the other way around).
Faction Flaws: Smallest military, most moral limitations (tying much of their military to safeguarding civilian populations), biggest paper tiger

The Mechanists: A mechanist doesn't have to be someone working in a field of mechanics, it could be anyone who processes options very rationally, logically, almost mathematically. It would include Primarchs meticulous about their battle gear, Primarchs with the most tactical prowess, etc.
Faction Traits: Best battle gear/technology, soundest tactics, most disciplined soldiers, best on the defense, best at range, lowest casualty ratios.
Faction Flaws: Too busy on the details to truly comprehend the greater picture, slowest to mobilize, the least worlds under their control.

The Warlords: Primarchs to whom fighting and winning is everything. Engaging the enemy is more important than selecting the best strategy or tactics, so simple/straight-forward techniques are most commonly used.
Faction Traits: Best on the attack, largest military, best hand-to-hand, no moral limitations.
Faction Flaws: Cohesive command structure found wanting, most distrust and dissent between Primarchs, worst discipline within the ranks, least loyal civilian population.

Bonzai
06-01-2012, 01:40
It's kind of a wierd challenge. But..... If the Emperor went crazy(er), and Horus did not succumb to Chaos and was a "good" guy fighting to stop the Emperor from enslaving humanity? (Need some kind of pretext for a 3 way war).

Loyalists
Dorn
Guillamain
Russ
Johnson
Ferrus Manus
Corvax

These strike me as the guys who are loyal to the Emperor, no matter what. They would continue to tow the line, if for no other reason than to preserve the Imperium they had helped build. It would have the most resources and man power, but would also be the most fracticious. Dorn is technically the Emperor's second in command and chief praetorian, a position Johnson and Guillamain would covet for themselves. For that matter, Johnson and Guillamain would be one upping each other all the time as well. Then there is Russ, who could care less about anyone else giving orders, and would only take direction from the Emperor himself. Corvax and Manus would do what they could, but over all it would be a large, fracticious force with only the Emperor himself holding them together.

Rebels
Horus
Sanguinus
Vulkan
Alpharious
Fulgrim
Khan

Horus takes those closest to him with him in open rebellion of the Emperors Tyranny. Khan also joins him as he has his own distaste for Tyrants. They are the smallest force, but would also be the most united and coordinated. With Horus, Vulkan, and Sanguinus doing what they could for the common people, they would also garner a lot of popular support across the galaxy. Horus also saves Fulgrim from his demonic possession. They also fight against their warp tainted bretheran as much as they do the Imperial forces.

Fallen
Lorgar
Angron
Mortarion
Magnus
Peturbo
Kurze

These are the guys who have fallen willingly to Chaos. Loosely led by Lorgar, they are the second largest force, and are re-enforced by demonic hosts. They all had a grudge against the Emperor, and the lure of Chaos was too great to resist... Except for Kurze of course, but no one else would take him as he had made too many enemies. They also bicker among themselves, but at least they have the will of the Chaos gods to keep them in line.... Except for Kurze, but he is more effective doing his own thing anyways and works with them when he has to. The closest of the two would be Manus and Lorgar. Magnus fell to save his legion, but his close ties with Lorgar didn't hurt either. Angron is mostly unleashed, along with Kurze. Mortarion and Perturbo are the real tacticians of the army and pursue a dogged war of attrittion with the other factions.

Over all it's an interesting scenario, just so long as the Emperor is not directly in the picture (secret projects and stuff). Who would win?

Horus has a really balanced force. His force is most suited for surgical strikes and hit and run tactics. With his tactical genious supplemented with Alpharious'es intel and infiltration, and the rapid deployment of the white scars, followed by shock troop blood angels and relentless salamanders. He also has Fulgrim for even more precise and perfectly executed strikes. Horus would litterally form the spear tip to take out his enemey in one decisive strike.

Lorgar and his brothers would more be like a ravening horde. They strike with overwhelming force, with ferocity and a limitless supply of fodder. The real aces in the hole are Lorgar and Magnus'es psychic might, which serves to mostly keep the others in check. They are an agressive force, focusing on pure offence and subverting worlds to Chaos.

The Loyalists have numbers, resources, infastructure, and some of the most brilliant and capabable of the primarchs in their ranks. However they also have the most territory to defend. They are trying to hold the imperium together, and it is a lot tougher than simply conquering worlds.

Overall, it's a really tough to pick who would win in this scenario.

Cryptic
06-01-2012, 01:46
Why do you think your Khan would become a rebel? Jagathai was very loyal of what i've read.

Bonzai
06-01-2012, 02:14
Why do you think your Khan would become a rebel? Jagathai was very loyal of what i've read.

He is also described as being very noble. He grew up on a world that was ruled by a Tyrant, and over came him. If the Emperor went crazy, and became a mad tyrant himself, Khan strikes me as one who would stand on his principles and join with Horus. That, and I needed a 6th for the even split.

AlphariusOmegon20
06-01-2012, 03:57
Yes, The Wolves are feral like and do not forget that they are wolves? Who change on the full moon from common superstition? The cursed 13th Company of SW returned from the EoT remember and that such exposure can exploit and provoke the Space wolves flaw resulting in CHANGE. Tzeentch is all about change and manifests itself in variation.


Not only that, but the Wolves are also heavily invested in following their Rune Priests, which use the Warp. I could easily see a case for the Rune Priests taking precedence from the Wolf Lords and finally leading the Great Companies over time, with Tzeentch's influence.


Right. That's what I was originally thinking when I made the Enlightened/Mechanist/Warlord groups up above. All three groups could harness Chaos in some way, or none of them. We can imagine anything we want.

Anyways, when I called them "Enlightened" I didn't really mean what some of you seem to be implying. Basically--

The Enlightened: Primarchs with the most strategic prowess, the grand thinkers with the most charisma, who have the best qualities to partake in nation building, etc. Lorgar (for instance) must certainly be charismatic to seduce so many with his religious cult, helping him fit here. But among the 'enlightened,' it wouldn't be a cult--it would be official--since the group would conclude their faction would be better off with a singular, uniting state religion (making him a grand-thinking charismatic nation builder).
Faction Traits: Most strategic mobility, most loyal subjects, greatest average standard of living, strongest economy, strongest culture (ie, more likely to infect someone else's culture than the other way around).
Faction Flaws: Smallest military, most moral limitations (tying much of their military to safeguarding civilian populations), biggest paper tiger

See, I took the "enlightened" to mean those that not only followed the emperor, but those that would also be possibly artists, those that enjoy the finer things and what not, which is why I stuck Fulgrim and Corax in there instead of Horus and Johnson. Those two seemed a bit out of place to me.


The Mechanists: A mechanist doesn't have to be someone working in a field of mechanics, it could be anyone who processes options very rationally, logically, almost mathematically. It would include Primarchs meticulous about their battle gear, Primarchs with the most tactical prowess, etc.
Faction Traits: Best battle gear/technology, soundest tactics, most disciplined soldiers, best on the defense, best at range, lowest casualty ratios.
Faction Flaws: Too busy on the details to truly comprehend the greater picture, slowest to mobilize, the least worlds under their control.

You mention Tactical prowess, which is why Horus had to go here for me. He was better at it than Johnson was. Other than that, I thought you were spot on.


The Warlords: Primarchs to whom fighting and winning is everything. Engaging the enemy is more important than selecting the best strategy or tactics, so simple/straight-forward techniques are most commonly used.
Faction Traits: Best on the attack, largest military, best hand-to-hand, no moral limitations.
Faction Flaws: Cohesive command structure found wanting, most distrust and dissent between Primarchs, worst discipline within the ranks, least loyal civilian population.


Johnson had to go here for me because he WAS a warlord on Caliban, much like the others you cited were on their worlds. I think Johnson would have fell to Slaanesh, not for the same reasons Fulgrim did ( pursuit of perfection), but for the adulation aspect of it (Johnson is a bit of glory hound, as evidenced by the issues with Russ.).

I might have to do something with your ideas in Microsoft Word. :D

Firaxin
06-01-2012, 06:26
See, I took the "enlightened" to mean those that not only followed the emperor, but those that would also be possibly artists, those that enjoy the finer things and what not, which is why I stuck Fulgrim and Corax in there instead of Horus and Johnson. Those two seemed a bit out of place to me.
Yeah no, I assumed no faction was on the side of the Emperor and either every faction or no faction utilized Chaos. For instance, reasons all of them could worship Khorne--
Enlightened: Martial Pride & Honor
Mechanists: Martial Discipline
Warlords: Blood for the Blood God

or why all of them could simultaneously worship Tzeentch--
Enlightened: Hope, Plotting (political & strategic)
Mechanists: Knowledge (the pursuit of, the retention of, the application of)
Warlords: Ambition (to conquer new territory & enslave more serfs, to win)

or Slaanesh--
Enlightened: Pleasure (from their faction's excellent standards of living)
Mechanists: Excess (excessive attention to detail)
Warlords: Greed, Lust (for power, for territory, etc)

or Nurgle--
Enlightened: Defiance (of the galactic grimdark standard), 'infection' of other factions through their cultural superiority, or even just because worshiping the "Lord of All" seems like the prudent thing to do for a faction so enlightened :angel:
Mechanists: to avoid the negative effects of material decay/rust/etc in their constructions (the same way a person would avoid the negative effects of a disease)
Warlords: immortality on the battlefield and to bring suffering to their enemies

...okay to be honest nurgle was a strech for all 3 of those factions :shifty:


You mention Tactical prowess, which is why Horus had to go here for me. He was better at it than Johnson was. Other than that, I thought you were spot on.
Horus did display remarkable tactical acumen, but the Emperor didn't make Horus Warmaster because he was good at maneuvering his troops around the field of battle. Horus was popular, charismatic, a glue holding the primarchs together, a grand thinker capable of plotting a galaxy-wide crusade. Consequently, I weighed the 'enlightened' half of him more than the tactical aspect.


Johnson had to go here for me because he WAS a warlord on Caliban, much like the others you cited were on their worlds. I think Johnson would have fell to Slaanesh, not for the same reasons Fulgrim did ( pursuit of perfection), but for the adulation aspect of it (Johnson is a bit of glory hound, as evidenced by the issues with Russ.).
Again, I think you've given a disproportionate weight to only a minor part of his character. Yes, the Lion was for all intents and purposes a warlord on Caliban, but that was only after the other knightly orders had been diplomatically united under El'Jonson and his vision of a planet cleansed of corruption. It was his grand scheme of exterminating the chaos beasts of the forests that united the planet under him. The classic 'Lion and the Wolf' tale also sharply contrasts Russ's bloodlust with the Lion's patience, restraint, and strategic depth. He even struck a 'master stroke' against Horus early in the Heresy by capturing siege weapons at Diamat which were purportedly the only way Horus could breach Terra's defenses.

Given all that, I slotted him under 'grand thinker, charismatic, strategist' rather than under 'thirsts for battle, assaults head on, weight of numbers'. The Warlords etc are just nice-sounding names I came up with to group the primarchs under, they're not to be taken so literally.

AlphariusOmegon20
06-01-2012, 10:08
Yeah no, I assumed no faction was on the side of the Emperor and either every faction or no faction utilized Chaos. For instance, reasons all of them could worship Khorne--
Enlightened: Martial Pride & Honor
Mechanists: Martial Discipline
Warlords: Blood for the Blood God

or why all of them could simultaneously worship Tzeentch--
Enlightened: Hope, Plotting (political & strategic)
Mechanists: Knowledge (the pursuit of, the retention of, the application of)
Warlords: Ambition (to conquer new territory & enslave more serfs, to win)

or Slaanesh--
Enlightened: Pleasure (from their faction's excellent standards of living)
Mechanists: Excess (excessive attention to detail)
Warlords: Greed, Lust (for power, for territory, etc)

or Nurgle--
Enlightened: Defiance (of the galactic grimdark standard), 'infection' of other factions through their cultural superiority, or even just because worshiping the "Lord of All" seems like the prudent thing to do for a faction so enlightened :angel:
Mechanists: to avoid the negative effects of material decay/rust/etc in their constructions (the same way a person would avoid the negative effects of a disease)
Warlords: immortality on the battlefield and to bring suffering to their enemies

...okay to be honest nurgle was a strech for all 3 of those factions :shifty:


Horus did display remarkable tactical acumen, but the Emperor didn't make Horus Warmaster because he was good at maneuvering his troops around the field of battle. Horus was popular, charismatic, a glue holding the primarchs together, a grand thinker capable of plotting a galaxy-wide crusade. Consequently, I weighed the 'enlightened' half of him more than the tactical aspect.


Again, I think you've given a disproportionate weight to only a minor part of his character. Yes, the Lion was for all intents and purposes a warlord on Caliban, but that was only after the other knightly orders had been diplomatically united under El'Jonson and his vision of a planet cleansed of corruption. It was his grand scheme of exterminating the chaos beasts of the forests that united the planet under him. The classic 'Lion and the Wolf' tale also sharply contrasts Russ's bloodlust with the Lion's patience, restraint, and strategic depth. He even struck a 'master stroke' against Horus early in the Heresy by capturing siege weapons at Diamat which were purportedly the only way Horus could breach Terra's defenses.

Given all that, I slotted him under 'grand thinker, charismatic, strategist' rather than under 'thirsts for battle, assaults head on, weight of numbers'. The Warlords etc are just nice-sounding names I came up with to group the primarchs under, they're not to be taken so literally.

LOL I looked at it from a different perspective. Your naming convention brought up to me a good point.

The 3 factions I saw were the Emperor, Chaos, and the Mechanicus.

Horus had very deep ties to the Mechanicus, more so than most of the Primarchs, save Ferrus Mannus or maybe Vulkan. I felt he'd fall in with them and end up being the defacto "leader" of that faction, based on his ties.

I agree with Alpharius/Omegon falling to the Mechanicus, based on their ties to Horus. A/O were closer to him than any other Primarch really, so I think they would follow him to his faction. The rest have ties to the Mechanicus in some form or another.

I see a great possibility of the Mechanist symbol being the cog, similar to those worn by Techmarines and Engineseers in our current "reality", to mark their loyalty to the Mechanicus. I also see the Luna Wolves never changing their name to the Sons of Horus though, thus also never becoming the Black Legion.



As for Johnson, I see him as becoming the Leader of the Chaos faction. I didn't ignore his leadership capabilities nor his tactical acumen. In fact, I counted on it. With the notable exception of Curze and maybe Russ, I think Johnson was the only other Primarch that could hold Angron, Mortarion, and Khan as a somewhat cohesive force. however, Curze is Curze, and I don't think anyone could have controlled him, no matter who it was that tried, and Russ had his moments when he was almost as bad.

From the "Enlightened", I see Lorgar as becoming the leader of that bunch, not Guilliman. We saw flashes of the potential of it in our "normal" history, so it makes sense that it would have actually happened in this "alternate" one.


Damn you Firaxin, now I have the urge to go make a few "Mechanist" faction figs to match the list I made. :mad:

RunepriestRidcully
06-01-2012, 14:53
Would there have to be three sides initally? or could there be two "heresys" in close succession?
The Thousand Sons, Alpha legion and the Emperor's Children remain loyal, and with them the traitors are repulsed from terra quicker then in cannon (the space wolves are able to take part as they aren't sent to Prospero, as do the Salamanders, Iron hands and Raven Guard as they don't suffer as much in the drop site massacres due to the loyalty of the Emperor's Children and Alpha legion.) However, Following this, the Ultramarine's declare Guillamian the new emperor, and march towards terra, having been somehow corrupted by Chaos, their numbers, mean the loyalists struggle to hold them back, having just driven the original traitors into the eye, the stage is set for the second battle of Terra...

Cryptic
06-01-2012, 15:23
Well thought of. That indeed is a possibility that can be brought to mind.

AlphariusOmegon20
06-01-2012, 15:28
Would there have to be three sides initally? or could there be two "heresys" in close succession?
The Thousand Sons, Alpha legion and the Emperor's Children remain loyal, and with them the traitors are repulsed from terra quicker then in cannon (the space wolves are able to take part as they aren't sent to Prospero, as do the Salamanders, Iron hands and Raven Guard as they don't suffer as much in the drop site massacres due to the loyalty of the Emperor's Children and Alpha legion.) However, Following this, the Ultramarine's declare Guillamian the new emperor, and march towards terra, having been somehow corrupted by Chaos, their numbers, mean the loyalists struggle to hold them back, having just driven the original traitors into the eye, the stage is set for the second battle of Terra...

Hmm, there'd almost have to be a second heresy in my vision of three factions. I think the Mechanicus would complete a "bloodless" heresy while the other two factions were already fighting.

Cryptic
07-01-2012, 20:30
Yeah a cold war throughout the main heresy?