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View Full Version : Space Marines Fighting Space Marines - Discuss!



Snakebite
21-04-2006, 21:22
I've been putting together a 1000pts Carnage army of my Space Marines Chapter and have been recording my progress on the Warseer Project Logs. A couple of nights ago, I mentioned that my army featured a "new" Veteran squad - Ultramarine War Veterans. I decided that since my Chapter had spent most of its first campaign fighting against Imperial armies, it would be a Chapter that fought against anyone that dared to disagree with what they believed to be the Emperor's divine plan for his realm. My best game in this campaign was against the Ultramarines and so, scouring my bits box, I found a few Ultramarine specific items and decided to model a new type of Veteran Squad that would be comprised of Marines that had become Veterans while fighting against the Ultramarines. This seemed to cause something of a stir...

I've come up with a rather extensive background for the army, including unit types, notable engagements, (in)famous characters - that sort of thing. I included a number of reasons as to why the Ultramarines were an enemy of my Chapter but it didn't seem to go down to well.

Perhaps it IS more likely that armies of other races (like the Orks, Eldar and Chaos) would fight each other. My question is, why wouldn't Space Marine Chapters fight each other?

The large number of Imperial armies around here makes it difficult to find a game that is not against Marines so I had to think of a way to incorporate that in to my army. I think this is a good way of doing it, but how would you do it?

sephiroth87
21-04-2006, 21:30
Perhaps it IS more likely that armies of other races (like the Orks, Eldar and Chaos) would fight each other. My question is, why wouldn't Space Marine Chapters fight each other?

Given the opportunities of Chaos working their respective mojos, I can't see why it wouldn't be feasible.

The Alpha Legion are noted for fighting against the ultramarines. Why couldn't your marines have fallen for the propaganda that the Alpha Legion uses against the Ultramarines?

Penitent
21-04-2006, 22:17
Just to be clear: your army isn't using any special rules, like "preferred enemy" when fighting other marine armies, right?

If so, then I don't see much of a problem here.

Toppan
21-04-2006, 22:29
maybe GW should of just made SOMETHING special about the marines...theyre too newbish and easy to win with...they need...downgraded? specialized? i dunno...something to lower their popularity a mite

god octo
21-04-2006, 22:34
you could say that they have strong links with the ordo hereticus and will fight any imperial force they believe to be heretics.

scarvet
21-04-2006, 22:45
As octo said, You can be a chapter with strong links to ordo hereticus. i.e. a radicul chapter belives the codex litmiled the potential of marines, or codex is not part of the emperor divine plan.

Snakebite
21-04-2006, 23:46
Just to be clear: your army isn't using any special rules, like "preferred enemy" when fighting other marine armies, right?

Right.

The only unit in the army with any kind of rules to establish their Ultramarine killing prowess is the Veteran Squad. The Veteran Squad has Furious Charge as its skill (striking before Ultramarine Marines in assault) and True Grit (from the Trust Your Battle Brothers Trait). As I said in my project log, from the start of the project I wanted a "special" kind of squad in the army and, funnily enough, it was the Ultramarines with their Tyrannic War Veterans squad that gave me the idea.


maybe GW should of just made SOMETHING special about the marines...theyre too newbish and easy to win with...they need...downgraded? specialized? i dunno...something to lower their popularity a mite

They are powerful but I've seen plenty of games where Marines get absolutely hammered. I've played against Marines with Marines where the enemy army outnumbers me considerably because he takes no upgrades. Those fights are always the hardest.


you could say that they have strong links with the ordo hereticus and will fight any imperial force they believe to be heretics.


As octo said, You can be a chapter with strong links to ordo hereticus. i.e. a radicul chapter belives the codex litmiled the potential of marines, or codex is not part of the emperor divine plan.

That's the plan exactly.

They have very strong links with the Ordo Hereticus. I had plans a little while ago for Witch Hunter allies but that didn't really turn out the way I'd hoped. Tournaments don't allow allies and I really want this to be a Tournament legal army.

My Tactical Squads demonstrate these ties really well. They are known as Explicator Squads, after a name I found in the Daemonhunters Codex. They are led by Inquisitors that are Veteran Sergeants by another name. They have no fancy Inquisitorial wargear but they still fill that role nicely. And they build on the fluff so much more.

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

hallon_apl
21-04-2006, 23:51
My question is, why wouldn't Space Marine Chapters fight each other?


Indeed they should!
There is no "the Space Marine community" or anything such; actually most chapters seem to be rather secluded, fighting for their "right" to be their own.
At least in my interpretation of fluff. :cool:

Ironhand
21-04-2006, 23:52
I agree - using the fluff of a strong tie to the Inquistion seems your best bet. GW itself said in the Witch Hunter Codex that the Inquistion might go after a Marine Chapter.

HPD_Andy
22-04-2006, 01:21
Hey the Dark Angles/Space Wolf fued jumps to mind. They used to have rules about having easier "to Hit" roles when plating against each other.

Toppan
22-04-2006, 01:40
i havent read the SM codex...but would chapters fight themselves if there was another evil around? or is there some reason they fight, fluff wise?

Hartog
22-04-2006, 06:57
yea the spacewolves only need a 3+ to hit dark angels regardless of weapon skill and vise versur so i dont see why yours couldnt have the same against the ultramarines it makes perfect sense.

Skyth
22-04-2006, 13:10
Tournaments don't allow allies and I really want this to be a Tournament legal army.

Marines in inquisition armies are inducted, not allies. Ally is a different rule.

Batou
22-04-2006, 14:46
Back in the old days infighting between the legions was the norm!

Most notable were the constant wars between the Dark Angels vs Space Wolves and the feuds between the primarches.

So I wouldn't see a problem with it.. however in those days (RT, 1st Edition, early 2nd) The Space Wolves fluff also claimed they were the most fanatical adherents to the codex, so I don't know how much you can read into it.

bloed_tarnen
22-04-2006, 14:50
Most are united under the belief that the emperor is a good, they believe that and they get along. But as any non ultramarine player would know making scenic bases with dead ultramarines is good fun and a good idea!!!, always.

mjc1000
22-04-2006, 18:20
if you think about it any space marine chapter (mainly space wolves could fight dark angels as they have a bad past for being chaos seing as they had whipped out a rusade of black templars because they had one of the fallen all of them are heitics and we will cleanse them with the flamer and purify them with the bolter

Serpine
22-04-2006, 21:10
Marines that had become Veterans while fighting against the Ultramarines. This seemed to cause something of a stir...

The concept seems fine to me (but then myself and another guy used to have some fluff explaining why his dark eldar and my tyranids regularly worked together when besieging an imperial planet, in a way to explain the 2 vs 2 battles my group used to do a lot).

Anyway, when modeling the unit, you need to emphasise that they do this out of grim neccesity, rather then take any pleasure out of it. Perhaps a wide banner illustrating images of marines engaged in heresy and other anti-imperial actions, with pictures of your chapter being egged by an inquisitor to attack them. I'd also expect them to be very hunched and somber in pose (no joy could be taken in such specialty of battle), with a darker color scheme then the rest of your guys. Hmmm... maybe do something else dramatic like cover the chapter markings on their shoulder with a shroud to show that a) they are in mourning for what they must do, and b) they want to distance themselves from the rest of their army so their actions do not demoralise the rest.

-Serpine-

Snakebite
22-04-2006, 23:48
Anyway, when modeling the unit, you need to emphasise that they do this out of grim neccesity, rather then take any pleasure out of it.

I honestly hadn't considered that. I had just assumed that they were OK with the fact that with the exception of their Inquisitorial allies, they were pretty much on their own. Their point of view precludes the idea of alliances with other Chapters that they consider to be heretical. Yours is an interesting idea that I will certainly consider.


Perhaps a wide banner illustrating images of marines engaged in heresy and other anti-imperial actions, with pictures of your chapter being egged by an inquisitor to attack them.

No way are my painting skills up to THAT! I make good use of Inquisition iconography in the army to convey that idea.


I'd also expect them to be very hunched and somber in pose (no joy could be taken in such specialty of battle), with a darker color scheme then the rest of your guys. Hmmm... maybe do something else dramatic like cover the chapter markings on their shoulder with a shroud to show that a) they are in mourning for what they must do, and b) they want to distance themselves from the rest of their army so their actions do not demoralise the rest.

Those are some really good ideas and have certainly got me thinking! The colour scheme of the army is already pretty dark but they could certainly use some form of distinction from their "regular" Battle Brethren. I wouldn't have said that they were in mourning for what they must do as the very act of gaining experience in a particular field suggests to me that whereas they might not actively enjoy it, they would come to accept it as their role. I don't think it would demoralise their Brethren either, in the same way that Ultramarines are not demoralised by the presence of Tyrannic War Veterans.

Captain Stuart
23-04-2006, 00:06
Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't space marines deny the divinity of the Emperor? I thought they thought of him as the ultimate human or somesuch? I could have sworn I read this back in 2nd edition. Maybe Sisters of Battle? A minor nit to pick in any event.

Have fun. I'd have no problems playing against it.

Leman Russ
23-04-2006, 00:13
Yes it seems like a fun army. Perhaps giving them preffered enemy (Marines) can be justified...

"Yeah, well we spend a lot of time purging fallen Marines. Yeah, they dont look fallen, but they are really. Look, I'm telling you RIGHT NOW those damn Smurfs WERE WORSHIPING NURGLE! Now leave or a Boltgun Shell will soon occupy the space where your head will at that time have ceased to be in."

Carnelian
23-04-2006, 00:13
I believe that once again that is up to the individual chapters (although I imagine only the most bold would assert that the Emperor is not divine openly, it is possible that many covertly imply that the Emperor is mortal or that their true loyalty lies to the chapter master not the Imperium).

starlight
23-04-2006, 00:28
My understanding has always been that the Chapter revere the Emperor as the pinnacle of humanity and worship him as a prince would worship the king. One of the many reasons for friction between Marines and the Ordos/Ecclesiarchy who venerate him as a god.

Oh, and Marine vs Marine? Go for it - maybe it'll wake GW up............:eyebrows:

Gavmo
23-04-2006, 04:42
Am I the only one who thinks that Marines can train againsed other chapters? Seriously, why do they have to kill each other? Why dont they just have "wargames" like most armed forces do?
If the amount of chapter Vs chapter was real, there would be no chapters left!

Not everything has to be teh r0x0r kI114 SuP3r M4r1n3z!!!11!!!!9f0uR!!x They are allowed to train too.

Snakebite
23-04-2006, 08:36
Not everything has to be teh r0x0r kI114 SuP3r M4r1n3z!!!11!!!!9f0uR!!x

I'm sorry, but I didn't understand any of that. I'm guessing by the tone you disagree with me, and that's fine. Suffice it to say, the relationship that exists between my Chapter and the Ultramarines will never be made good. The Emperor's Disciples seek to spread the Divinity of the Emperor throughout the galaxy and, as far as they are concerned, the Ultramarines have strayed from that directive. I don't think it really matters why the Disciples believe that; only that they do.

Okay, so this mortal and longterm enemy of the Ultramarines will never be "official" GW canon but so what? Coming up with this background has been some of the most fun and rewarding hobby time I've had in a long time.


Please correct me if I am wrong, but don't space marines deny the divinity of the Emperor? I thought they thought of him as the ultimate human or somesuch? I could have sworn I read this back in 2nd edition. Maybe Sisters of Battle? A minor nit to pick in any event.

I'm pretty sure that such a belief is Chapter specific. The first example that springs to mind is that of the Space Wolves. From what I remember reading in the Bill King novels, the Space Wolves venerate the "All Father" as a mystical warrior that leads the fight against the Great Enemy. They don't believe he is a god but they are certainly aware of the fact he is far more powerful than they could ever be.

It's funny that you mention this, actually. I wanted my Chapter to be so completely over-the-top fanatical in their desire to remake the galaxy in the Emperor's image. I think that, to them, the Emperor IS a god.

Gavmo
23-04-2006, 19:30
Woah man. What I was saying is that people tend to go straight for the "extream" when it comes to the stories of why their chapter is fighting another chapter.

I like your idea and think it's well thought out. (Anything that kills Ultrasmurfs is good by me!):evilgrin:

I just cant stand the way everyone thinks that their marines can kill everything including their allies in the form of other chapters. If you're going by fluff, then the size of the usual battles with marines in them are fairly rare. They usually dont have that many marines in one place. So for marines to be fighting marines like that would result in too high a number of casualties.

So what i'm saying people, is that it doesnt have to be KILL, KILL, KILL all the time. Since marines spend a lot of their time training, there's a good chance that they would train againsed other chapters.

Though anything that kills Ultrasmurfs should be exempt from this.:evilgrin:

Snakebite
23-04-2006, 22:56
Sorry, I couldn't tell if you thought it was a good idea or not!

The Disciples are a very insular Chapter. This tends to create more friction than would normally be expected between Chapters, although they do have allies beyond that of the Inquisition. The Black Templars are long standing allies (simply because I haven't played against a Black Templars army yet - that could change!) because of the way they conduct their crusades. A lot of the inspiration I had for changing unit names, etc. came from the Black Templars way of doing things. I did consider using their Codex to write my army but decided that I like the Marine Codex options better.

zealousheretic
24-04-2006, 06:14
I always assumed that marines vs. marines games are training exercises or war games rather than real shooting wars.

Batou
24-04-2006, 10:35
Space is a big place and marines are a rarity, I doubt they'd have the time to get together for a quick kick around.

Marines are mobilised for big threats, and there are many such threats in the galaxy.

Aside from crusades and the like, I can only imagine Marines gettin together to settle scores a la the old fluff or to fight over resources.

Dakkagor
24-04-2006, 10:42
or its training simulations, VR or whatever. Either way, the idea of marines fighting marines, on the whole, is nonsensical.

but my guys have followed a similar route, and often work with the ordo malleus, and will often take a "shoot first, ask questions later approach" to dealing with demonic taint. Especially if space marines are involved (we all know how that went down the first time, right?)

Brother_Bethor
24-04-2006, 13:09
When I play with my fellow Black Templars gamer, I always think of it as of big paintball match (imagine all those missile warheads and demolisher shells filled with nasty green paint :D ).

Typheron
24-04-2006, 16:09
on several occasions marine chapters have fought each other, the Bahab war comes to mind.

in that war one chapter (the astral claws) went rogue and several other chapters sided with them for various reasons. The lamenters were one such chapter and sided with the astral claws as they felt that the imperium were challenging the rights of all space marine chapters.

Sadly they later found out there was some chaotic and generally unpleasant evilness at the heart of the rebellion and were sentanced to a crusade to atone for their mistakes.

I also play paintball matches, the most notorious being my own blood angels fighting each other since i have enough of the to forum 2 small armies. i recon training fights like this would take place if 2 chapters were on route to the same warzone in the same battle group in order to keep the marines busy and combat ready moreso than normal.

Lame Duck
24-04-2006, 16:34
Right.

They are led by Inquisitors that are Veteran Sergeants by another name. They have no fancy Inquisitorial wargear but they still fill that role nicely. And they build on the fluff so much more.



By the way, inquisitors are human, not space marine. And i dont REALLY agree on the fluff about the inquisitors only leading a tactical squad... but hey its your army.

Captain Brown
24-04-2006, 16:54
While I do not know of the Ultramarines fighting against Marines, there are instances in Imperial history of Chapters fighting each other, the most famous of these was the Badab War of 901.M41

Summary:

THE BADAB WAR
In 901.M41, as a result of Lufgt Huron's apparent mental destabilisation, the Master of the Tiger Claws and Lord of Badab attacked and destroyed an Imperial investigation fleet as it entered orbit around Badab. And when the Imperium moved against its wayward chapter, a full scale rebellion was initiated, the most serious of its kind since the end of the Fourth Quadrant Rebellion in 780.M41.

By 903 three other chapters, the Mantis Warriors, Executioners and Lamenters had joined the rebellion. Imperial shipping was attacked, and a ship belonging to the Fire Hawks Chapter was captured by the Mantis Warriors in 904. The Fire Hawks immediately retaliated, and soon five whole chapters were involved in the fighting. The Emperor recalled the Marines Errant from the Eastern Fringes, but they quickly found themselves fully occupied protecting Imperial ships in transit.

In 906 two more loyal Marine units, the Red Scorpions and the Minotaurs, had been brought in, and the threat to Imperial shipping was more or less quashed. In 907 the Red Scorpions and Fire Hawks were recalled to their normal service duties in the galactic east, and two more chapters, the Novamarines and Howling Griffons were committed to space-lane duties.

Meanwhile, the Star Phantoms began the task of besieging Badab whilst two other chapters were drafted in to investigate the worlds occupied by the Mantis Warriors and Executioners. The Lamenters were caught in an ambush by the Minotaurs in 908 and eventually surrendered after bloody ship-to-ship fighting. This came as a great blow to the Tyrant, and the rest of the war consisted almost entirely of close sieges. The uprising came to an end in 912 with the fall of Badab and final defeat of the Tiger Claws. Before the war was over, The Exorcists, Fire Angels, Salamanders, Space Sharks and Sons of Medusa all became involved for short periods of time; chapters replacing other chapters as pressures elsewhere necessitated their re-deployment.

With the rebellion over, The Mantis Legion, Executioners and Lamenters were granted the Emperor's forgiveness, subject to undertaking a hundred year crusade. The homeworlds of the Mantis Legion and Executioners were forfeited to the Space Sharks and Star Phantoms for their part in the war. The other legions received salvage rights to spacecraft and a proportion of the booty. The Tiger Claws were all but destroyed. Only a contingent of about two hundred fought their way through the Exorcists' blockade and escaped into deep space.

As you can see from the little bit of old GW trivia that there are lots of ways to tie in your Chapter history with events, after all you have thousands of years to work with.

The_powers_of_chaos
24-04-2006, 20:15
Look Most marine vs marine fights are on dark angels or there descendents as they did some bad stuff now i collect space wolves and they only really hate dark angels and thousand son

Snakebite
25-04-2006, 07:55
By the way, inquisitors are human, not space marine. And i dont REALLY agree on the fluff about the inquisitors only leading a tactical squad... but hey its your army.

Yeah, I know they're only human. To be honest, I just wanted a better way of incorporating the Inquisitorial shoulderpads in to my army, as well as a Cypher / Inquisitor conversion I have planned. I have a couple of explanations floating around at the moment as to why these Inquisitors would have the statline of a Marine but I haven't settled on anything yet. It's strange in the sense that the more background I write for the army, the more it starts to write itself...


Inquisitors being "inducted" in to the Chapter.
Marines becoming Inquisitors.
Radical Inquisitors are using Fabius Bile - type experiments on their own operatives.


@ Captain Brown:

Thanks for that information on the Badab War. Since writing the fluff for my Chapter, I feel like I'm on some sort of crusade myself, investigating events like this! It all helps when coming up with background for my army, which even at this point is far more involved than anything I've done before. Thanks again.

Warp Zero
25-04-2006, 16:57
As several other posters have pointed out, Marine vs. Marine feuds have happened. My only negative critique of your idea is that you've picked Ultramarines as the Chapter you're against. You would have to come up with a very convincing story as to why your Chapter finds one of the Imperium's most straight laced honorable Chapters to be heretical.

I mean, I could understand if it was the Flesh Tearers or ....The Relictors(http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/relictors.html) for example. But the Ultramarines? What could your Chapter possibly see in them that is heretical? :confused:

So anyways, my comments are:

1.) Does it have to be Ultramarines? If not, make it another more "questionable" chapter.

2.) If its gotta be Ultramarines, then you gotta come up with a good story/reason why its them.

Snakebite
25-04-2006, 22:11
I could understand if it was the Flesh Tearers or ....The Relictors(http://www.armageddon3.com/English/Campaign/Troops/relictors.html) for example.

A good idea but there are already forces in place that are after the Flesh Tearers and the Relictors. One of the reasons behind the Ultramarines being chosen was that they were relatively untouched that way.


But the Ultramarines? What could your Chapter possibly see in them that is heretical? :confused:

Good question! Again, I've had a few ideas about this. In the Horus Heresy fluff, there are references to the Ultramarines not being involved in the defence of the Imperial Palace. Now I know this was because Horus was afraid of them and had them reassigned as far away from Terra as was possible. But what if there were people that believed it was the Ultramarines themselves that had fled to the far side of the Galaxy? Now what if those people were Space Marines? And what if those Space Marines were the Emperor's Disciples?


1.) Does it have to be Ultramarines?

In the final analysis, yes it does. There are just too many reasons that it does to be changing it now without having to backtrack through all of the fluff I've written so far.


2.) If its gotta be Ultramarines, then you gotta come up with a good story/reason why its them.

I'm working on it - there may well end up being several good reasons for it. I do have one extra special idea that I'm working on, but it involves the far future of the Chapter, rather than its past.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys. It helps!

Brother_Bethor
26-04-2006, 06:30
Good question! Again, I've had a few ideas about this. In the Horus Heresy fluff, there are references to the Ultramarines not being involved in the defence of the Imperial Palace. Now I know this was because Horus was afraid of them and had them reassigned as far away from Terra as was possible. But what if there were people that believed it was the Ultramarines themselves that had fled to the far side of the Galaxy? Now what if those people were Space Marines? And what if those Space Marines were the Emperor's Disciples?

Good point. Dark Angels are in the very same situation. There are some people who believes, that Jonson deliberately didn't fought on Terra.

HeraldoftheGods
26-04-2006, 07:28
The big problem with marine on marine issues is that reports get leaked around the galaxy and somebody gets declared hereticus. The Badab war - a bunch of different chapters fight each other the result being that the Astral Claws get declared traitor and a bunch of others have to undertake lengthy crusades to restore the Imperium's trust in them.
Or the Soul Drinkers. This chapter truely believed that it was following the divine path of the Emperor, but it still got declared traitor.

If your plan is to target the Ultramarines, unless you plan on wiping them out then I think you'd better be prepared for the Inquisition to go Hereticus on your ass. Any Inquisitors that were accompanying your chapter would also be declared traitor. In the end you'd become a vigilanty chapter, as there is absolutely no way you could get away with attacking the Ultramarines without suffering the consequences of the Imperium.

Gavmo
26-04-2006, 08:06
Good question! Again, I've had a few ideas about this. In the Horus Heresy fluff, there are references to the Ultramarines not being involved in the defence of the Imperial Palace. Now I know this was because Horus was afraid of them and had them reassigned as far away from Terra as was possible. But what if there were people that believed it was the Ultramarines themselves that had fled to the far side of the Galaxy? Now what if those people were Space Marines? And what if those Space Marines were the Emperor's Disciples?

I reckon this is your best idea so far. Only hole I see in is that you want to include Inquisitors in your armies in some way, and Inquisitors generally know the way things work in the Imperium. As in, they would question the idea that the Ultramarines ran away from the defence of Terra. In fact, i'm fairly sure that they would have been taught what actually happened in regards to the seige of Terra in whatever school they go to. (Just read it in the Eisenhorn books but I forgot.)
So having Inquisitors in your army may not be able to work. Unless you make them Interrogators all under the command of an Inquisitor. That may work.

Batou
26-04-2006, 10:17
How about something slightly different?

Your chapter is seen to be going down the wrong path, say they've been investigating Chaos artifects without handing them over to the 'proper' authorities. Worried you'll go the way of the, is it relictors? Ultra-Smurfs come to beat the tendency out of you before it goes too far and you have to be declared Heriticus.

Your lot does better then expected after a long drawn out conflict, your troops gain valuable experience. Afterwards the Inquisition takes a keener interest in the Chapter to make sure you don't go off route again, going so far as to accompany you in battle, making the chapter more zealous then they were in the first place.

Just an idea

Snakebite
26-04-2006, 14:36
Hmmm, I like that. It's certainly a twist on what I had originally thought about but it does address a few of the issues that people have pointed out to me. It certainly explains why the Chapter doesn't run off and try to invade Ultramar or anything else as grandiose.

Thanks for that - I like it a lot!

Wolflord Havoc
26-04-2006, 15:05
It is said that a Lie sent from one part of the Galaxy becomes the truth by the time it reachs another part.

An inquisitor (for what ever reason) could have impressed upon a Loyal Chapter (that might have been cut off for a couple of Hundred years from the rest of the Imperium etc) that the once great Ultra Marines - that once great bastion of a Chapter upon which hinges the defence of the Eastern Fringe have fallen to Chaos and ruin and it is up to this Loyal Chapter to Crush them in order to save the Imperium.

Now this Inquisitor might be doing this for a whole variety of reasons - but the one I am going to give is this.

He does not nessersarilly want the Ultra Marines Destroyed or indeed the Loyal Chapter attacking them snuffed out either. What he wants is to create such a condition as to increase reinforcements to this area in order to better prepare it for 'what he percieves' as the greatest threat to humanity - the Nid.

So once the battles between these 2 chapters have started alarm bells ringing (if at all) on holy Terra then he will perhaps stop the fighting (if he can) or simply disappear - his work here complete. In the mean time we have a somewhat complex reason for the Chapters to kick the hell out of one another.

Snakebite
26-04-2006, 16:03
Oh no! The greatest bombshell plot twist for my Chapter has been revealed!

One of the earliest ideas I had about my Chapter was one that had them being lead very slowly astray by an Inquisitor. He was basically a disaffected Inquisitor Lord that was trying to carve out his own empire with the Emperor's Disciples to defend and expand it. They would essentially be a loyalist Chapter that, once having realised the extent of their betrayal would have launched themselves on a penitent crusade of some sort.

I wanted the Chapter to be the loyalist version of the Word Bearers Legion. I wanted a Chapter that worshipped the Emperor as a deity and answered only to him - what I believe the Word Bearers would have been like had they not fallen.

Game wise, this opens up a whole new possibility. If I decide that they have fallen too far to Chaos, I will be able to use the Chaos Codex with (most of) this army. It's an idea that has some merit, but is perhaps a little too obvious...

Thanks for the idea, though. Consider it borrowed!