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View Full Version : Stop those elves! (building a LARGE skaven army)



boli
08-01-2012, 21:17
Thanks to the fact of HE and WE armies count as "elite" armies... (roughly translated less models = more points) and some very good deals on ebay my g/f now has a lot of points of elves. Pretty much one of every unit in the HE and WE book.

Unfortunally since whilst this gives her flexibility (which is what I wanted) it also means she has around *coughs* 15,000 points of elves. Thank you very much low model count! Which put against my 3,000pt skaven and even tho I actually would outnumber her in numbers my points cost is going to be significantly less than hers if we wanted to have larger games.

History of the thread aside the question as quite frankly I'm stumped: How would you build a 10,000 point army of skaven? I mean I have a lot of points of skaven right now but without spamming clanrats/stormvermin/slaves how would you actually build a BALANCED skaven army in the higher points cost.

I'm doing nothing about it now; RIGHT now.. I mean that would be silly I still have over 400 rats to paint.. but I do like to think of the future and I've honestly no-idea how to build a higher point skaven force... I mean what would you be bringing 1,000 skaven slaves and would they even be worth it given half of them will be out of the 18" of the grey seer.

Do skaven actually scale to the higher points values are is it just a case of 35Clanrats+weapons teamx20.

Anyone actually build a large and balanced army of skaven?

Novrain
08-01-2012, 21:30
Try having themed 3k armies for each of the major clans?

boli
08-01-2012, 21:54
I'm not looking for themes... just a large scale skaven army - I'm wondering if it is even possible... even being outrageous with the list I can only get to 7k.... 10,000 is just rediculous.

Metacarpi
08-01-2012, 22:01
I've gotta admit, I wouldn't even know where to begin going that big.

Units of 50 Plague Monks accompanying Plague Furnaces? Units of 100 Clanrats instead of Slaves?

Just keep going, cram as much stuff in as you can. A thought - how many HPA's is it possible to field at 10k? Just the thought of that is pretty nasty!

boli
08-01-2012, 22:12
that is why I'm asking for help as I keep just adding numbers not balance.... go nuts make lists 10,000 pt skaven :)

calnen
08-01-2012, 23:17
Remember at this points level you can work with 'Grand Alliances' - you can have multiple general models, and get bigger inspiring presence distances on your supreme commanders.

I fielded 10,000 points of Orcs and Goblins a few months ago, and as you say the main issue is leadership bubbles. I had 3 generals (3 allied armies, effectively) with 3 BSBs, each in their own bunker units behind the lines. But you need to be very careful in positioning, and not letting any front line troops get too far out of position - otherwise your 'steadfast on 6' goblins end up dying fast :)

So, I'd say build an army along the same lines. Think in terms of 3 Grey Seers on Bells, each in a bunker unit, so you cover about 6 feet with leadership bubble. Then something in the order of 1000 rats making up the front lines. (10 units of 100 maybe?) They'd pretty much fill the deployment zone - you don't want to get flanked - including slaves, plaguemonks, stormvermin and clanrats. Throw in a lot of weapons teams, as many cannons as you can, and lots of gutter runners etc to cause disruption. Oh, and HPAs to give the enemy something to shoot at.
Add storm banner, and go :)

PS. I don't play Skaven, so there may be more cunning lists out there, but I think that'd look ace all deployed :)

Don Zeko
08-01-2012, 23:22
Ok, so I took "go nuts" under advisement and started playing around in army builder. At the moment, I've got about 500 points left to give magic items and upgrades and so forth. Here's the list thus far:

Queek with 58 of his elite stormvermin, a doom flayer, and the BoEF. He's joined by a chieftain BSB and a cheiftain with skavenbrew.

Grey Seer on Bell w/55 stormvermin and doomflayer

Grey Seer on Bel w/55 stormvermin and doomflayer

Three units of 80 clanrats, each with a weapon team and a level 1 warlock engineer. The warlocks have the doomrocket, brass orb, and warp-energy condenser respectively.

Six units of 30 slaves

two units of 45 plague monks, each joined by a plague priest on a furnace. One of them has the plague banner, the other has a dispel scroll on the priest.

18 rat ogres with Skweel

4 hellpit abominations

4 doomwheels

4 Warp Lightning Cannons.

60 giant rats with 5 packmasters.

That leaves 400 points to spare. Current model count: 809. I don't even want to know the dollar price tag on this force.

colonel kane trine
08-01-2012, 23:28
I had 10k of them
Skrolk makes plaguemonks core and skweel makes a few rat ogres core if I remember correctly?
Add 2 or 3 furnaces and thats a good chunk gone

I guess it depends on your theme. Maybe have 2k of each clan then 2k of a generic warlord clan. Its alot of models but its doable

russellmoo
09-01-2012, 06:55
Well, my 5000pt list (which is almost all of my skaven models) looks something like this-

Grey seer, warlord on bonebreaker, verminlord, queek (this squeaks in under 1250)
BSB, plague priest x 2 Warlocks x 3, cheiftain x 2

79 clanrats w/ spears shields, wft
48 stormvermin w/queek upgrade, wft
45 slaves w/shields x 2
40 giant rats +pms
20 night runners w slings and warpgrinder (used to meet core requirements)

59 plague monks plague banner
8 pcbs x 2
7 rogres
5 jezzails
6 globadiers w/ mortar
10 gutter runners, slings poison

3 Doomwheels
1 HPA
1 WLC

This still operates more or less as one army- however, at 10k you will need multiple bells, or plague furnaces with accompanying troops (make them ridiculous in size)- use them on the flanks to secure the vulnerable ends of your army and force the fight into the area where you have your BSB re-rolls, and more elite units

Also, at such a high points level you might want to include different themes, make the right flank a pestilens army with a furnace, and some plague monks, maybe throw in skrolk, and one or two catapults-

The center could be an elite/moulder army with 2 or more HPA's, queek + stormvermin, and a rogre horde

While the other flank could be skrye heavy with a bell, clanrats/w weapon teams, some doomwheels, and wlc's

TheOneHawk
09-01-2012, 08:13
I so want to write a list for this. This is gonna take a while, though.

boli
09-01-2012, 11:22
Perhaps the best thing about a massive skaven army is skavenslaves simply won't be viable tarpits outside of the central leadership bubble.

I mean yes a naked warlock in units does give a Ld8 but you'll loose the reroll and the chance to hold even on an unmodified steadfast leadership its 27.77% chance to break and explode. In contrast a simple Clanrat unit would be Ld8 without the need to pay for the naked warlock *and* using Chieftains in the flank units to reduce the chance to break to 16.66%

Best case is in the 12" deployment zone you can get 15 ranks so you can have 4 units of 75 slaves or two large units of 150 (10x15) - if you choose the more flexible approach you'll be able to fit 4 units around the screaming bell but the outer 2 would not benefit from the reroll.

Although you could just go for MASSIVE units. like 40x15 (600 slaves) on each side of your bell - at a "mere" 24% of your points cost; you would be bringing 1,200 models... which would be pretty scary in fact you could triple that 120x15 (1800 slaves) on each side of the bell. and still have over 2.5k to play with to make the rest of your army up.

3,200 slaves... ouchie that's the eqquiv of 24 hordes or approximatly 24 feet of rats.


-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Scary numbers aside the biggst issue I see with skaven armies at this size is the feeling you need to bring more elite units going against skaven's true strength (as in numbers)

20 rat ogres in a horde formation would be 800 points 4 hellpit abominations 1,000 points they are sound pretty impressive but they are also masive targets and I'm wondering if a unit of stormvermin and 2 units of clanrats for roughly the same cost would actually do more for you in the long run?

Symrivven
09-01-2012, 11:35
Uhm how big is your table? If its not large enough you can add all the units you want but you wont benefit from it as you will hardly be able to use your superior numbers. Maybe add a lot of expensive single hard hitting models first, abominations, doom wheels, possibly rat ogres or some of that forgeworld stuff.

boli
09-01-2012, 12:36
Uhm how big is your table? If its not large enough you can add all the units you want but you wont benefit from it as you will hardly be able to use your superior numbers. Maybe add a lot of expensive single hard hitting models first, abominations, doom wheels, possibly rat ogres or some of that forgeworld stuff.

I was merely going with "what's possible" and came up with some scary numbers - its the balancing I'm having trouble with as the force would need to be mobile enough (i.e. not simply a wall of rats walking forwards) but not concentrating in elite units. However much we want to think; even our best units are unreliable at best; pretty much the moment steadfast is broken Skaven run.

I'm thinking in a 10,000 point skaven game there are going to be a lot of the humble clanrat with weapons teams - perhaps with a chieftain leading Multiple bells just feels "wrong" somehow.

Moomoo
09-01-2012, 18:02
Although you could just go for MASSIVE units. like 40x15 (600 slaves) on each side of your bell - at a "mere" 24% of your points cost; you would be bringing 1,200 models... which would be pretty scary in fact you could triple that 120x15 (1800 slaves) on each side of the bell. and still have over 2.5k to play with to make the rest of your army up.



1800 slaves would cost you (and that, if you buy the clanrat pack, and don't worry about the fact that there are clanrats in your slaves units)

2700,-
or $3150,-

that would ONLY cover the slaves... not to mention the rest of all your units.

boli
09-01-2012, 21:15
1800 slaves would cost you (and that, if you buy the clanrat pack, and don't worry about the fact that there are clanrats in your slaves units)

2700,-
or $3150,-

that would ONLY cover the slaves... not to mention the rest of all your units.

I think you can see why I'm stuck on creating a balanced and viable large skaven army :P

Moomoo
09-01-2012, 22:16
I think you can see why I'm stuck on creating a balanced and viable large skaven army :P

Yeah I figured haha