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Astromarine
22-04-2006, 00:17
I just got this in today, and even though I'm saving a real read until tomorrow morning, it looks on the surface to be a lot better than 316. All in all, I was quite pleased with the amount of "Meat" in there, and they have neat stuff I've been curious about like a table completely done with one Imperial City box and a cityfight battlemat, which looks quite nice actually. I might just buy one.

Plaguebeast
22-04-2006, 01:03
I havn't seen it, but the preview on the GW site certainly sounds promising. It definitely sounds like it will be 'meatier' and the bat rep includes two armies that you rarely see grace the pages of WD - my beloved Beastmen and Moulder (!) Skaven army. Hopefully it hasn't been edited down to a paragraph a page :rolleyes:.

*holds breath*

Plaguebeast

Astromarine
22-04-2006, 01:10
nope. Each turn takes two pages in the mag, but a lot of the space in those two pages are pictures. In addition to the turns, there's two pages to introduce the article, and two per army for the list and army picture.

EvC
22-04-2006, 02:30
Ooh, sounds like I've made the right decision in giving the mag, "one more chance". Is the Beastmen army that Tzeentchian-styled one, with spawn based on wyverns and hydras that they featured about a year ago (and said that it would feature in an upcoming batrep)?

Also, are they using the definition of "free" that means they cut 30 pages from the mag to make room for it, or is it a full mag plus the free book..?

Astromarine
22-04-2006, 05:35
mag is 128 pages

Grimtuff
22-04-2006, 10:09
Hmmmmm, looks okay at a first glance. Nice army features and appears to actually be some content in the FOTN designers notes.

Bad points though (i'll find some more serious ones later) There is an evil presence in WD, The Lichemaster's figures get in, yet no feature of GW Lincoln (see feature on Gobstyks) That's me in the black Triple H shirt in the top left of page 108, looking a little rotunder (hey, that pic was taken over 5 months ago :p )

I'll give this one a 6/10 as it IS an improvement over last month on first glance, but still needs a way to go.

Odin
22-04-2006, 11:00
Not a classic, but a big improvement on last month. I guess it's helped by some of the superb new releases, especially the superb new cityfight scenery.

Slightly more meat in this issue as well, though the Skaven article was little more than a few pictures with captions, and didn't really have any focus. Didn't have enough text to be a background article, didn't have any interesting pictures to make it a modelling article, and didn't have enough tactical advice to make it a tactics article.

I still miss the background text in the battle reports, without a story it's just a game of toy soldiers.

Oh, and good to see six more full-page pictures of the new plastic giant - we didn't see enough of it last month. :rolleyes:

immortal99
22-04-2006, 13:14
Oh, and good to see six more full-page pictures of the new plastic giant - we didn't see enough of it last month. :rolleyes:

That was one of the real let downs for me and the small skaven article didn't look to great either. The whole warhammer section last month wast taken up by the new giant - a new army maybe I could understand but one model :wtf: Why couldn't that have been in last months WD anyway? And a completely non-giant related article this month?

I gave it a seven though - a very big improvement on last months which I gave a generous (in all seriousness) 2.

strv
22-04-2006, 13:30
Taken only one vote is as low as four, and the rest being around 7, it is worth the buy, no?

philbrad2
22-04-2006, 14:07
Still reading it. Initial thoughts, looks good, considering it turned up with my Anphelion Project book, new Lictor and Ravener Its been WD I've conentrated one. How come its gone back to the old mixed format for articles rather thna by system :wtf:

Report back later, looking not bad though initially scored it a 7/10

:chrome:

MacVurrich
22-04-2006, 14:12
If you like 317 wait till you see 318

Insane Psychopath
22-04-2006, 14:32
I been mainly reading the free "Medusa V" booklet you get.

From the quick clance of the WD it is ok, but like others have said it is not the "best". Thought I do feel it is a improvent & that Owen doing a great job, when you look back to the WD around when Nids came out where it was nothing but Ad's :rolleyes:

IP

Griefbringer
22-04-2006, 14:35
[COLOR="Red"] The whole warhammer section last month wast taken up by the new giant - a new army maybe I could understand but one model :wtf: Why couldn't that have been in last months WD anyway? And a completely non-giant related article this month?


Well, the giant is essentially the only significant fantasy release between the revised dwarves and the 7th edition - so they will rip as much out of it as they can, since there is not much other new product to promote.

Ki-Adi-Monkey
22-04-2006, 15:32
Its good, particularly the Vostroyan article and the medusa V booklet.

Rob

Lostanddamned
22-04-2006, 15:47
I cant decide on whether I like it or not.

I first read it and thought "shame"

The Skaven feature promoting SAD isnt that great...

But then again...

I am very dissapointed my the battlefeild in a box from the Imperial cit, with all that space in, compared to the old cityfight stuff the entire 6'x4' (i think) battlefeild has a whole 11 structures on...

the new wood elf lord on eagle looks really poor, but that could just be the paintjob on the face.

I like the this month/next month release list thing

Lots of good text and info in the vostroyan section as well as agood painting article.

Tau painting stuff is actully very good, especailly all the battlesuit pose and white armour. However was it nseccary to make the how to paint the giant section 4 pages long?

Lovely batlereport,some good showcases.

Also I am very sad to see mr Kyme leave, he will be missed I think

Heru Talon
22-04-2006, 17:21
All in all 317 to me is 4 up from what I should have voted on 316 (I voted 7 for 317).

It's much better in general and I did manage to read all the content in my first sit down.

Now on to the points

1. Editorial seems kinda lame as usual though that's probably just me.

2. The New Releases section is many many times better than 316, with single pages actually containing multiple items (unlike 316 which felt like single releases were getting two pages each) The Imperial City stuff takes up four pages but I guess it isn't that bad as there is allot of items in it. Warhammer news preview doesn't look too bad, only two pages which I like .

3. Lotr section is a hefty 21 pages packed with info, and a White Council vs The Necromancer Bat Rep, perhaps not as detailed as it could be but it is generally interesting.

4. Standard Bearer was really another let down, talking about Summer Campaigns and not really increasing knowledge... meh.

5. 10 Pages on Vostroyans, good amount of text some nice pics some suggestions on doctrines to use. Generally not bad.

6. Medusa V advert gets two pages again, methinks one of those pages would be better for something else, but then w/e (whatever).

7. 3 Pages for Skaven, not a great article, but it is fresh to see something that isn't Giants or some other new release that "YOU MUST BUY!! BASH BASH BAH"... *cough*

8. A page for tips on Rough Coat which I've yet to really read so I won't comment on that yet. Followed by a single page advert for Imperial Guard Tank Box Sets... why? Are sales of them decreasing or something since they raised the prices on them? (Gods I hate price rises).

9. It would have been nice if they'd kept the Giant painting article to two pages (if they really needed it that bad). Six pages on something we've already been bashed over the head with is abit (Oh My Gods too) much.

10. Two pages for Tau Character painting articles, not any true detail there so I don't see why they wasted the space on it.

11. 5 pages on Crisis suits, looks interesting I'll probably read more of it later.

12. A single page advert for specialist games Grand Tourny looks alright gives all if not most of the required info.

13. 17 pages for a Skaven vs Beastmen battle report, the intro looks too short, but the general army lists and bat rep looks alright, not as bad as last months.

14. Single page for a Warhammer doubles tourneyment, looks ok. Can't help feeling that it would be better to round up these adverts in the news section rather than scattered through the mag.

15. Two pages on Golden Daemon Guidelines, followed by 2 pages of well painted models.

16. 4 pages for a showcase on Alex Cairns minis, to be honest I'd been hoping to see more of his Mortifactors ever since a handful of his Mortifactor models were showcased in a WD awhile back.

17. Black Libary advert spanning 2 pages, the items look alright but I really don't think they needed to waste a page with some Chaos Marine artwork (add it with the other wasted pages and we could've had an expansive article on something decent).

18. Mini showcase lasting 4 pages looks alright some nice conversions of 40k minis to INQ characters.

19. Two pages on club stuff, doesn't interest me personally but I'm sure others may like it.

20. Warhammer world advert takes a page (too far away for me, so meh).

21. White Dwarf online advert takes a page.

22. Events Diary two pages useful.

23. 6 page storefinder, and I still hate it (it's such a damned waste of space that could be used on hobby articles).

24. One page for submissions looks good, the Mentor Marines look pretty good.

25. One page for WD team articles, interesting and doesn't waste space.

26. 4 pages on ordering direct... 2 pages simple advert (would be better as one), then a page on new components (understandable), followed by a whole page taken up by one picture of the Giant accessory sprue (In the name of the Gods, stop it!!).

27. Two pages on the Cities of Death Advanced order and more pictures of the Imperial City (they already had 4 pages on this stuff, what the heck!!).

28. Single page advert for subscribing to WD understandable.

29. Advert for what's in next WD... absolutely horrible they mention four things and the rest of the page is picture (Warhammer Giant Bash... Gods no not more damned Giant - Fall of the Necromancer... - 40k reference sheet big woop (sarcastic) - Cities of Death, which hopefully will be good).

Back of the Mag cities of Death Advert looks neat for simple PS (or whatever they use) work.

Overall better than 316, still seems like they're intentionally wasting space at time (they should hire me to consult I'd set them straight).


Ok now on to the Free booklet.

1. Hmm general info fluff on Medusa V, on how it was found etc, interesting seems short.

2. Two page general sections for why each army is there, no army lists or anything...

Overall I was looking forward to this booklet but it's a big let down.

Misfratz
22-04-2006, 17:43
It looks as though WD316 was a particularly weak issue, as this one is better [although the text is still too large and pictures too dominant], but... It seems as though WD have fully embraced the no-holds barred approach to playing games. I remember when they introduced win-at-all costs battle reports as a novelty, but it seems that this tournament mentality is becoming dominant.

The skaven article, which embraces the use of one-dimensional max shooting and magic Skaven armies, is very disappointing. It's been said that people generally don't find games against such armies fun, and, as the article even admits, victory is normally about the luck of the [many] shooting dice that you throw, rather than, gasp, actual battlefield tactics*.

Also, from page 113 of my Warhammer rulebook: "It [killing blow] has no effect on big creatures such as Ogres or Dragons..."

Is my rulebook out of date or... did they make a bigger mistake than normal in the battle report?

And then, I think the letter titled "Another stunty joins the fold!" was intended to be deliberately provocative. I mean, honestly...

To be positive, it is nice to see a battle report featuring armies which don't have any releases, but then I guess this is a unique interregnum with few releases for Fantasy, so it's probably not going to be repeated that often.

The showcase models are nice, I always like modelling articles [battlesuits]. So, we'll see, it may be that the worst has now passed, but there are some things I'm not happy with.

The score = 6

* As an aside, since when did tactics become synonymous with army list design?

Odin
22-04-2006, 17:57
Also, from page 113 of my Warhammer rulebook: "It [killing blow] has no effect on big creatures such as Ogres or Dragons..."

Throt the Unclean has a magic weapon which allows him to use killing blow on anyone.

I agree about the battle reports, they do seem to indicate the increase in tourament-mentality across the hobby as a whole. For me that should be less important than the telling of a story using themed forces with a background and interesting scenarios.

Pertinax
22-04-2006, 18:12
After reading 317, I would have to say that in my opinion, the trend looks like WD is getting better.

Malaclypse23
22-04-2006, 20:34
I couldn't help but notice the large 'Games Workshop's Monthly Miniatures Magazine' sub-title on this month's White Dwarf. It is just that these days - a miniatures magazine. It no longer feels like a number of enthralling universes where you are inspired to be a part of an epic struggle, to be imaginative and innovative. It's just a game where you push painted models around on a table.

Sadly, I feel I have no reason to ever re-read this magazine, and it seems a quick flick through in the shop would be a wiser solution than actually forking out the £4. (The big pics and lack of text make this an even more appealing option)

Games Workshop has gone crazy with the 'a picture is worth a 1000 words' idea, and while it's obviously important for them to showcase their models it feels over-the-top to me. The continued use of the larger font size only contributes to this feeling that the articles are secondary to the snazzy photos. I own every WD since around issue 70, so I've seen it wax and wane before, but unless things pick up again rapidly I'm going to have to say no-more. I want something that I will return to in the future a, 'hey that was a good article, let's read that agin', or 'That seemed like an interesting scenario, now I have the models let's give that a go', or 'I've always wanted to convert some models to try those cool Snotlings on Crack rules.' This is what makes me want to part with my hard-earned cash not the, 'this is cool, you buy now' approach.

Having said that, this issue was an improvement on last months.

Lord of the Rings
The designer notes told us what exactly? This was an opportunity for Mat to delve into the whats and whys of the supplement, but it never even scratched the surface. The rest of the FoTN stuff was throwaway once the would be buyer has their paws on the actual supplement and the battle report again felt too light on the detail and too big on the dazzling pictures. Average at best.

WH40K
I'm not a huge 40K fan, but it had some decent content this month. The Index Imperialis article was good, but it still feels 'dumbed down' compared to some of the fantastic background articles in the past. The bigger font size only contributes to this feeling for me. The campaign mini-booklet looks good, but I've yet to read it unfortunately.

WH
The Skaven article was near pointless. I'd expect to see that sort of thing on a promotional flyer, not an article in the hobby magazine. Do I need to comment on the giant? Enough already. Once again the battle report felt too light, no background, no in depth army selection details or plans. That's the stuff that involves me in the battle report and makes me want to read on.

The Rest
Near 20 pages of new releases? Lots of blah. There were some decent showcases, and the 'eavy metal pages weren't terrible this month, but could be better.

Overall
4/10 from me. I'm just not liking the feel of WD anymore. Now that I've thumbed through it why should I keep hold of it? I know this is largely down to GW policy these days, with cash and tournaments more important than extra content for their games. Shame.

Brandir
23-04-2006, 15:36
Compared to the previous issue, this is good. But compared to what it should be like it is still avery poor magazine. A totally unacceptable offering from GW. The layout is extremely poor and the content is almost non-existant.

The poor approach to the battle reports now sums up the magazine. Lots of big pictures, a small amount of text and no detailed content.

I really can't believe that some people actually like this issue.

anarchistica
23-04-2006, 16:44
Throt the Unclean has a magic weapon which allows him to use killing blow on anyone.
Not exactly, it gives "Killing Blow, works on models up to size of Ogre (40mm base)" to quote AB. Only Tullaris of Har Ganeth can Killing Blow everything (except Swarms, of course).

This issue looks better than the previous two.

Oh, did anyone notice how it says in the editorial (now done by the WD himself, apparently) that the Fall of the Necromancer is set "before the books"? It happens during the Hobbit and way after the Silmarillion... couldn't "Grombrindal" just say it happened before the Lord of the Rings? :rolleyes:

Also, more poor editing, of course in the batrep. It says on page 78 there are 5 Chaos Hounds... right under the photo showing 6 Chaos Hounds, and they got ir right in the list too. On page 81 it says "Throt has Killing Blow to take down Beastmen monsters". Guess what, his Killing Blow works on everything besides monsters (and Swarms). For feths sake! :rolleyes:

my_name_is_tudor
23-04-2006, 16:51
It seems that GW doesn't actually want to put substantial content into WD. I bet there is lots of background material for all the various new elements being introduced to the games - but for some reason it isnt being supplied to WD..

Perhaps they want to make more mula from it, keep it for seperate books with a £12 tag.

Heru Talon
23-04-2006, 16:58
Well considering that WD is made 2 months in advance, I expect that 317 was made with the comments on 315 in mind. 318 hopefully will be made with the comments on 316 in mind (seeing as 316 was the worst).


It's funny that WD sucked so bad, and coincidentally the paper company screwed up at the same time (316).

LOF
23-04-2006, 16:59
Personally, (as I don't play 40K myself) it didn't seem too exciting as:
-yet again the WH giant takes a good few pages of dribble.
-skaven and beastmen battle report lacked much build up.
-new LOTR stuff was OK but seemed limited to the White Council (little on mirkwood elves and whatever else is in the supplement)
-so really the most exciting section was the news (which I already knew most of anyway!)

Well at least there should be some good stuff to come! (yet another 40K freebie next month!)

Maybe I should take up Warhammer in the 41st millenium.

Wintermute
23-04-2006, 17:49
Well considering that WD is made 2 months in advance, I expect that 317 was made with the comments on 315 in mind.

WD has a three month, not two month lead time.

Heru Talon
23-04-2006, 22:31
WD has a three month, not two month lead time.

Hmm meaning 317 is based on 314 comments...

So it "should™" get better around 319 then?...

Flame of Udun
23-04-2006, 23:11
Oh, did anyone notice how it says in the editorial (now done by the WD himself, apparently) that the Fall of the Necromancer is set "before the books"? It happens during the Hobbit and way after the Silmarillion... couldn't "Grombrindal" just say it happened before the Lord of the Rings? http://www.warseer.com/forums/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

I think they probably mean it is set prior to the books of The Lord of The Rings. The Lord of the Rings is not supposed to be a broad term to cover all the events of middle earth Tolkein wrote about just those in the fellowship,2 towers and return of the king.

my_name_is_tudor
23-04-2006, 23:27
Yeah, the game is called the Lord of the Rings, and its reasonable to assume that when someone talks about 'the books' with reference to the game, they mean the Lord of the Rings books - which is just those three.

anarchistica
24-04-2006, 07:33
Er, The Last Alliance took place way before the Lord of the Rings. If they want to make clear they're only talking about that book (since it's really just one book), they shouldn't have based it on a triology that includes stuff that happened before "the book", or make Isildur minis.

To you it might seem nitpicking, to me it is denying there's more to Tolkien's books than his second greatest. :p

Osbad
24-04-2006, 07:48
Still poorest of the poor for me. No words and loads of pictures. Took about 30 seconds to "read". What a boring waste of money! Why won't my subscription hurry up and die?

Mr Tiddles
24-04-2006, 07:57
Why won't my subscription hurry up and die?

Why not simply ring them up and cancel it?

Osbad
24-04-2006, 09:02
Why not simply ring them up and cancel it?

Do I get a refund of the balance of issues if I do?

If not then there's no point.

Of course I could find out by ringing GW mail order, but I'm at work - and somehow while cyber-skiving is OK, personal phonecalls are not...

Promethius
24-04-2006, 10:27
At the end of the day, most of the comments that are being made on warseer are the same as when fat bloke was at the helm, the difference being that he actually listened. Essentially, its a question of content. We want more meat and less pictures, more background articles, and more effort. WD to me reads like somebody sat down and thought 'what can we do to fill up the mag' rather than 'what can we squeeze in'. Battlereports read like a rush-job write up of a standard battle, showcasing new armies/units, rather than a clever scenario someone has designed, or a battle which follows a storyline. I half think that what WD really needs is to drop half of the standard articles and try something completely random, just to try to get a bit more enthusiasm amongst the staff. Possibly even make it a submissions magazine like fanatic, so that it is written by gamers for gamers. WD used to be like that, but now I think it is written by suits for perceived stupid punters.

Osbad
24-04-2006, 10:46
but now I think it is written by suits for perceived stupid punters.

Absolutely agree. Imperfect as it was, the old Dwarf used to (at times) read like it was a magazine about the hobby. Nowadays it is just 100% corporate glossy spin. Junk Mail.

bravefew
24-04-2006, 11:03
I have been in the hobby and thus collecting White Dwarfs for 4 years now. In my view the standard is falling abysmally. The latest issue took me all of about 15 minutes to read cover to cover (excluding the supplement) and there was precious little of interest in there.

If GW wish to push particular product lines then I feel that they will be far better served by the (old fashioned) masterclass painting articles, detailed tactics articles explaining why the product is good/fun to use and detailed Battreps.

I am frankly at a loss to understand why the last 10 or so issues of WD have a lead time of 3 months - it is not as if there is a lot of writing to prepare or edit!!

Mr Tiddles
24-04-2006, 11:47
Do I get a refund of the balance of issues if I do?



Not having felt the need to unsubscribe I don't know.

However I'd be surprised if they didn't offer a refund.
Whatever GW's faults the MO blokes are generally very good at refunding/resolving issues.

fsssh
24-04-2006, 12:29
I need to make a point about giving marks out of 10.

On the 316 and earlier feedback threads I have noticed a trend where reviews say 'not very good', but still award 5/10.

Might I suggest that in the context of this poll that it would be constructive to make 5/10 an appropriate score if the magazine is average. From there you can decide if the issue is above or below standard and add/deduct points as you think they are deserved.

I'm not rating this months yet as I have not had time to read it, but a quick thumb through has already revealed complete pages of large photos of things already seen before and blocks of text in large type.

C'mon WD, it's not about how big the words are, it's what you say with them that we care about. And stop subscribing to the 'pictures say a thousand words' style of editorial, I really would not be interested in another 6000 words about the new giant, and therefore not particularly interested in another 6 large pictures.

Osbad
24-04-2006, 13:26
Well, I've just been in touch with the MO Trolls and I only have 2 more issues left on the sub. No point ditching them for the sake of saving £5 so I'll just let them flop on the doormat and whinge about them afterwards on the internet. I won't be resubscribing though...

Malaclypse23
24-04-2006, 15:43
I need to make a point about giving marks out of 10.

On the 316 and earlier feedback threads I have noticed a trend where reviews say 'not very good', but still award 5/10.



A good point, but it largely depends upon someone's criteria for rating WD. For some a 1/10 might mean something like issue 316 while for others such a low score might mean the magazine needs to be scrawled in crayon by a 2 year old. This also applies to what people see as 'average', and in such a results-driven society, average is oftened viewed as a negative.

This discrepancy in feedback not equalling numeric values can be attributed to what the person is basing the rating upon. For example, is it a stand alone value that is compared against all hobby magazines, is it a value based upon a 'what I want/what I got' criteria or is it compared with previous issues of White Dwarf itself?

I personally decided to give this month's WD a 4/10, which was perhaps generous and I'll admit I was influenced by the fact that it wasn't 316 and that people seemed to get some enjoyment out of it, while it simply wasn't to my taste. So though I thought the magazine was again disappointing, things could be worse (black and white, reduced pages, etc.) and my disappointment is largely based upon the fact that I have read numerous WDs that are, in my opinion, above average and therefore far superior.

In these terms, WD could be described as 'not very good' but still recieve a 5/10.

Cherrystone
24-04-2006, 17:01
things could be worse (black and white, reduced pages, etc.)

Theres 20 odd pages less this month (317) as well

Flame of Udun
24-04-2006, 18:17
Er, The Last Alliance took place way before the Lord of the Rings. If they want to make clear they're only talking about that book (since it's really just one book), they shouldn't have based it on a triology that includes stuff that happened before "the book", or make Isildur minis.

To you it might seem nitpicking, to me it is denying there's more to Tolkien's books than his second greatest. :p
OK I kinda see what you are getting at but the last alliance is tied to the story of the ring and it features in the film and the game is based on the film of the books. Pedantry is a fine art ;)

stahly
24-04-2006, 20:03
I got a (german) copy today and I must say I'm quite pleased. Even though some articles of the UK (or US?) WD aren't in there (e.g. the Fantasy battle rep) for a german series of articles of four players that build their armies for the Medusa campaign (marines, eldar, nids and IG), I found the painting articles quite good (though they could have shown how they had painted the Vostroyan tanks).

The Judge
26-04-2006, 17:10
I gave it a three, since it was better than last issues (a paltry 2), but no where near the standards of the good old White Dwarves. It's still almost pure catalogue, but I am glad the battle reports have almost returned to normal.

If all the articles had been as good (if not better) than the Vostroyan article, it would have gone a lot higher.

EvC
27-04-2006, 15:28
It's nor too bad, I was disappointed by the battle report though. Could really have used a map, given how many of the troops were big blocks of brown-furred human-creature hybrids.

Lacerta
28-04-2006, 01:19
I enjoyed the issue...except for yet more pages devoted to that *******' giant :confused:
The Cities of Death and Medusa V stuff is great, and their...dare I say it...sincere attempt at improving the magazine may prove GW might actually be listening to its loyal customers :wtf:
7/10

Bob Hunk
28-04-2006, 09:24
I voted 5/10.

Average - not great, but not awful. Was a little disappointed by the campaign book, would have liked one or two campaign specific rules or scenarios or something.
Was it me or did a lot of this WD seem to be an exercise in taking-up space? Couldn't we have had more info on the Vostraiyns (sp) for example, squeezed in by having less pictures and using a smaller font?
It just felt like the WD team had all gone on holiday, except for two or three unlucky individuals, who'd drawn the short straw and been left behind to sort things out, leaving everything a little half-finished. :(

Flame of Udun
28-04-2006, 12:34
I've gone for a 3/10 this time, as opposed to last months 2/10. althought there is some improvement on last month along with the apparent disappearence of the astronomicon the text size is still too large and there are far too many pages taken up by HUGE pictures. If you reverted the text to a decent size and scaled down the pics the mag would be half the size. I'll give it a full workover later but these are my first impressions.

underdog
28-04-2006, 14:17
3 out of 10 for me as well I'm afraid

maybe its just me but there was absolutely nothing in there to interest me whatsoever

i found the index imperials article really boring the lotr section doesn't do it for me any way and that bloody giant in the warhammer section again!!!
there was just nothing to hold my interest:eyebrows:
i don't know maybe I'm getting to old for all this (goes off to cry into pint of warm beer :cries: )

cheers
Andy

syrme
28-04-2006, 18:34
a lot better than 316, (not too hard) medusa supplement is nice and the magazine looks great 5 out of 10 for me - all style and no substance

Norminator
28-04-2006, 22:23
I gave it quite high, I felt that it wasn't at all bad. The article about crisis conversions was good, and the Medusa supplement was interesting.

Venkh
28-04-2006, 23:08
This issue is definately an improvement over last months pointless offering.

The booklet - This was really good, decent background on Medusa and a description of each armies motivation during the campaign. I expect to see more about the mechanics next month.

News was as good as usual, good for anyone that doesnt have web access that is. This section is well presented.

New stuff, good presentation of the new cityfight stuff, might go for the 40 quid boxed set.

LOTR - Dont read this till later in the month, i dont play the game but keep the content in the magazine and keep supporting the players who do.

Giant painting guide - OK i suppose, not all that interesting as Im not going to buy the giant.

Vostorians - Concept art, Painting Guide, miniatures showcase, nice bit of fluff. Good stuff.

Battle Report - 2 good non studio armies thank goodness. Looked like an enjoyable game. Hard to see what is going on at times. I liked the simplified diagrams, perhaps they could be inserted instead of the warp'o'meter.

Various army showcases - This was the highlight of the magazine for me, some really excellent stuff from all of the contributors.

Jervis' article - I dont think i learned much from this.

Some really positive stuff then. There are just a few things that i would like to see return.

1. A return to a more normal font size, i really liked the font size used in older issues. It rather handily allows you to get more words on the page without taking up any more space.

2. A return to a defined section and mini editorial for each system - i thought this was great and should have stayed.

3. A return to the more detailed next issue section.

All in all i would give the mag a '7'. If there had been more depth to the articles i would have given it an 8.

Rgds

Flame of Udun
28-04-2006, 23:08
Well it's not bad but it's a hell of a long way from being good. With the super size text and lack of detail you could quite easily half the size of the magazine. I mean just go back and look at issues like 306 when the new nids come out, they put the current incarnation of WD to shame. I really don't understand how people can rate this mag as good, I mean it has hardly changed compared to 316.

thommo
29-04-2006, 11:17
bought it last night and haven't had a chance to sit and read it properly but my first impressions are that it's a lot better than last months load of toilet. It seems to have a bit more substance and it's nice to see a WFB battle report which isn't all "bling" with the latest lists!
Given it a 6 on first impressions...having glanced through, i'm surprised to say that i'm actually looking forward to sitting down over the weekend and reading it! :eek:

C. Langana
29-04-2006, 16:39
Some good articles in this issue. But not much actual content. I read my way through in just under an hour from the end of the catalogue to the start of the pointless bit (letters page on).
The medusa thing was the best part of the issue.

The Jervis article thing is really rather sad, it feels like some senile old relative being given a minute to just quietly ramble to themselves, done more out of respect for their age than an interest in what they have to say.

Warpstone-ometer. Why? It's failry irrelevant and it's not needed to ascertain who's actually winning the battle report.
I mean here's a Postometer. _/_ does it improve anything?

god octo
29-04-2006, 19:28
I mean here's a Postometer. _/_ does it improve anything?

yeah, postometer. Anyway, back on topic. this issue was a massive improvement on 316, with interesting articles in all three systems. i think that white dwarf is picking up in quality again.

Dr Death
30-04-2006, 09:43
Remembering all too vividly the great hideousness that was WD 316, despite this being a pale shadow of the "classic" issues, i rate this quite highly. Battle reports really do have to go back to turn by turn, rather than abbreviated "highlights", the current style reminds me of those godawful school football match reports you always had to listen to in assembly. I also dont like the "admitting mechanical mistakes" thing they've started doing when players "incidentally" forget that such and such cant pursue but does anyway etc.

I was quite impressed by the stuff on the vostroyans even the painting guide, the little colour circles dont seem wasted when you are actually shown any decent build up of layers. The Painting giant article however really didnt seem like the colours they were telling you were what was actually used.

I've yet to read much of the "meat" (if you can call it that) of the issue, i've had a flick through the Medusa V booklet which seems pretty good, but from what i've seen this issue is at least 100% better than the last.

Dr Death

Yorkiebar
30-04-2006, 11:21
The Medusa V booklet was fairly nicely presented and enjoyable to read, and the magazine itself, though still focussing too much on Tau Empire and the new LotR supplement, contained a great showcase of 40K miniatures (e.g. Ahriman at the bottom of page 105).

EDIT: Look closely at the Heavy Bolter squads on page 52...

Flame of Udun
30-04-2006, 11:28
I've yet to read much of the "meat" (if you can call it that) of the issue, i've had a flick through the Medusa V booklet which seems pretty good, but from what i've seen this issue is at least 100% better than the last.
So how are we to gauge how "good" an issue is? are we to compare it to the last issue or to the highest standard of all previous issues? If we are to go by the former then I don't see why this issue hasn't had more 10's because it's a vast improvement on 316. However if you go by the latter, as I and some others did apparently, then it is still a long way from being even slightly above average. So are we comparing WD to it's historical prestige or to the previous months offering?

Kodamas
30-04-2006, 11:47
I think we should compare it to the last one. That way we can see if the magazine is improving or just staying static. If we try to compare with the older issues you have the problems of the older issues being far better in everyway and the poll just telling us that the magazine is distinctly average all the time.

I have yet to fully read the issue but from what I have seen it is very cood in comparasion to 316.

Echos

Flame of Udun
30-04-2006, 11:50
Then we should have 2 ratings. One comparing to the last issue and one overall rating.

Dr Death
30-04-2006, 12:39
I've tried to provide a comment on both, Flame of Udun. As an issue stood against all the issues of the past, this is average at best, however improovement should not be denied or forgotten and this issue is an improvement.

Dr Death

Flame of Udun
30-04-2006, 12:57
I know that Dr Death, I wasn't having a go at you, you merely provided an apt opportunity to throw the rating issu into the discussion. No offence was intended. I agree it is am improvement on last issue but I went out and puchased may copy on a recommend that it was soooooo much better and when I got it I found that it was average and personally wish I hadn't forked out for it now which is why I think people should give 2 ratings a comparison with the last issue and a comparison vs the general standard.

Dr Death
30-04-2006, 14:45
Yes and no. I think a more accurate way to rate (and one i use myself) is that rather than go "bottom up" starting at 1 and adding marks as appropriote for what it got right is to imagine the perfect issue (which i think we all have a concept of) and then see by how much it dissapoints. As someone else said, no-one really knows what 1 means, its too vague a concept (is is a scrawling on a single peice of paper or just grossly substandard?), however a perfect issue is a much stabler benchmark and from that we can see by how much it dissapoints. So essentially take a "glass half empty" perspective on WD, be impartial but grade it on how far its got to go rather than how good it was.

Dr Death

my_name_is_tudor
30-04-2006, 15:46
Dissappointing.

The Crisis battlesuit article, which I have been looking forward to, didn't show how to convert any of the un-modeled wargear items. So what was the point in it?

Everything else that I would usually read (40k and LotR) was essentially advertising, but for the Vostroryan Firstborn article, which was quite good - probably the first 40k fluff article that has been thought out, informative and worth reading in a long time.

Heru Talon
30-04-2006, 19:03
The Crisis battlesuit article, which I have been looking forward to, didn't show how to convert any of the un-modeled wargear items. So what was the point in it?

That is probably because they actually dealt with that issue on the GW site (well at least the UK one), ie there is an online article with conversion tips for creating things like the Black Sun Filter.

The Judge
30-04-2006, 20:58
I don't like them relying on the internet... even if technology is the future. Cheaper than £4 I suppose.

my_name_is_tudor
01-05-2006, 01:04
That is probably because they actually dealt with that issue on the GW site (well at least the UK one), ie there is an online article with conversion tips for creating things like the Black Sun Filter.

I still had hoped for a different angle on the same theme, some of the conversions in BG weren't really that impressive.

I don't see the need in an article which just tells you how to repose crisis suit arms and legs for 4 pages.

thunderwolf
01-05-2006, 02:19
IMO it was ok, nothing special though. I'm not mad keen on the editorial from 'Grombrindal,' I preferred actually seeing the editor's face.

Other than that, I'd agree that the sheer number of adverts are somewhat ridiculous; when the point of the mag is to advertise GW stuff, why not use those pages for something constructive- show us why we should fork over money for stuff- feature more cool conversions, paintjobs, tactics articles, whatever. Taking all the WD staff worldwide into account, not to mention the other randomers that contribute now and again, there doesn't seem to be much reason why there can't be more articles written for inclusion than there are now- it just seems lazy to fill the pages with adverts for this random tournament or that flavour of the month range.

Heru Talon
01-05-2006, 02:24
Actually if I remember correctly won't Crisis suit commanders be featured next issue (according to what they said in 315)?

Chuffy
01-05-2006, 08:49
Flicked through a friends copy...you could say it's better than 316, but then again crapping on a piece of paper and then paying £4 to eat that poo-paper would have been better.

The Batrep was a nice idea, but it was poorly executed, I had no idea what was going on, what was the motivation behind the battle, no map etc. A potentially excellent article ruined.

The Vostroyan article had a bit of meat on it, but still felt lacking. Substandard tactics articles, boring painting articles and more of that bloody giant. Hey GW, I'm not going to buy that giant, your WD coverage has put me off...shame really, I collect OK and Greenskins!

3/10 and boy am I being generous.

Stingray_tm
01-05-2006, 12:18
The German version had another part of the Naval War article. This combined with the Medusa V booklet made this Dwarf acceptable. The rest was mostly crap.
Since not every future WD will have a campaign booklet and some old archive material to save it, i guess this will have been the last WD for me.

Jellicoe
02-05-2006, 09:18
Well yes it was an improvement on last time, but we are talking very small incremental steps

So taking a leaf from the GW forums and trying to be positive what was good. Vostroyans and the campaign booklet were good as was the Dark Millenium figures showcase, Particularly liked the mortifactors and also the Ork kill team. Cities of death and the buidlings also look good. Crisis suit stuff was OK but I am not a tau player. The paint palate is a good idea

Average to poor stuff now

Battle reports, The beastman and Skaven armies were good and unusual, a real plus. Downside being that the report was almost incomprehensible without clearly defined turns and any form of map. Drop the silly slaughtometer/warpometer thing. A shame as sounded like a fun scrap and since neither army is the army du jour the winner was anyone's guess. I did however like the difficult rules explanation bit. Very necessary for warhammer

The Necromancer fight suffered the same, no clear indication of who was where when or why but sounded quite fun

Definitely rubbish stuff

I still hate the store listings, why i need to know where to get my GW stuff from the next time I am in the Falklands I have no idea, as for the Falklanders themselves, well there isnt anything else but Port Stanley so shouldnt be too hard to work out where to find it

GW giant - waste of pages, far too long, far too little content

Skaven 'tactics'. Up there with the Necron Lord 'tactica' in terms of crapness. Bunch of photos and minimal tactics which seemed to say a) shoot them b) sneak up on them
Very poor - compare that to the Jeff Leong tactica on heavy cavalry and see the difference

Poor layout and big font sizes just scream 'rip off' to me. Lazy and gives the feeling of padding the thing out. c.f. the skaven tactica, big fonts chuck in some photos, job done chaps.

Necromancer designer notes, gave me absolutely no information whatsoever and seemed to be a small paragraph crammed in under some big photos, another wasted opportunity akin to the Tau designer notes.

Jervis Jervis Jervis what have they done to you! Two pages going on about Ichar IV told me precisely nothing apart from the fact that people used to write in in the old days (more hassle to cheat on the results) and Jervis had hair. I reckon that Jervis must be under the same sort of spell that Theoden was under in the Lord of the Rings that made him prematurely senile. This man is the god of specialist games and great rules and must be straight jacketed by the suits

Overall still sub standard and still not going to make me renew my subscription when it expires. Too big a font size, too many photos, too little in the way of content, substance, interest, text, information or entertainment.

White Dwarf needs to do much much better to justify my £4

Hlokk
02-05-2006, 17:18
I finished buying with this issue.

Although the magazine is an upward move for WD, I am left wondering if this is just an anomolie, and that the magazine is going to get worse and worse. Think about it, its catagorically got worse and worse form WD 306/307. One issue alone is not enough to show a change in trend.

The problems with WD are now so legion I honestly dont think that, given its current state and the attitude its shown to its customers, it can be saved. The only thing that will solve this problem is getting management to back off and overhauling the magazine completely.

Im not even going to bother listing the problems with the magazine, as we all know what they are. When they do something good, they don't stick to it. When they do something crap, they do it over and over, as if to prove that it isnt bad and that their right.

Shame, as I'd been collecting since WD180.

ashc
02-05-2006, 19:53
do you think they have begun wheeling Jervis out as if to say 'Look, we still have at least one vet! and he agrees with us! (applies mind altering drug direct to Jervis's brain via a large 'urty syringe)' :)

Ash

Reabe
02-05-2006, 20:15
No Mike Walker or Vadchuck. (Or whatever "Fatbloke's" Chaos Lord was called. I want to see him on that Daemonaic mount!)

0'd.

Hlokk
02-05-2006, 20:24
Has something gone off between mike walker and WD that we dont know about, or is it because WD arent paying for articles any more?

ashc
02-05-2006, 21:09
all i know is that its been a loooooooooooong time since there was any sight or sound from Mike Walker.

Ash

Phunting
02-05-2006, 22:12
7. 3 Pages for Skaven, not a great article, but it is fresh to see something that isn't Giants or some other new release that "YOU MUST BUY!! BASH BASH BAH"... *cough*Though I love the fact that even in this unrelated article they still manage to mention the giant! About Jezzails: "Good against those new Giants, too!"

******** giant...

EvC
02-05-2006, 22:27
About the only context that I think the new Giant should have been mentioned was by having one, or even TWO in the battle report. But that'd be too easy...

Killgore
02-05-2006, 23:38
I'v voted 6 for this issue

Its better then last months, it had a good chunk of the mag focused on the story of the Vostrians, a free campain booklet which was ok and something on ratmen....

Could have been ALOT better! still got stupidly big print and page filler pictures... Who wants to see that picture of a Word Bearer Chaos Spacemarine again? He's already stared on the front of WD many moons ago, WD is really suffering from having such a small team working on the mag.


They havn't even said whats going to be in next months mag! something on Citys of Death and.... More Giants!!!!

Serpent
03-05-2006, 18:25
I gave it a 3.

The Vostroyan article had promise, but thanks to the large font and copious amounts of LARGE PICS, there was actually as much content as the Vespid article from the last issue. "The Vostroyans come from a Hive World and produce a ******** of weapons. They send their firstborn sons to a regiment for something the Administratum is miffed about. And they have furry hats." Done. :wtf: The painting guide to them was OK, but... Meh.

Don't get me wrong, I really like the models. The look of the models almost made me start another IG army, until I remembered that everything is made of metal, which means that it is hideously expensive and will suffer from a large amount of pealing paint...

The rest of the mag, sorry, rag is just not up to it. Huge pics of a giant getting through stages of painting, a rotten Battle Report, where absolutely nothing is clear, and if there was tactics involved, I must have missed it, in spite of the large text...

Jervis article: "When I had more hair, we began having summer campaigns." No, really? And the point of this being?

What do I want?
-I want smaller text, with a lot more real content.
-I want tactics which doesn't involve choosing a list to match the opponent.
-I want a thought-out reason why players make certain decisions in a Battle Report.
-Maps in the Battle Reports. I want to see what's going on tactically as well, thank you so much.
-I'd like some spirit in the WD crew. Not just a rehashing of "Giants! Cool Giants!" and the like. Have some fun!

Playtest the tactics, get people who know about armies to write about how to use them. One of the worst articles I've read is Alessio Cavatore's Eldar tactica. I could've done better high on drugs and after a 9-hour day trying to get kids to understand math... :eyebrows:

There's plenty of more stuff, but for now, I'd like a bit of a Mike Walker-type article. Written by Mike Walker, preferably.

Serpent

Phunting
03-05-2006, 22:15
We can all gripe till the minotaurs come home, and rightly so. But unless this trend towards gobsh*te is hurting sales I cannot see any change.

Does anyone more in the know that I know if sales are dropping or not?

Dagorlad
04-05-2006, 03:55
A friend of mine in South Africa reported a curious phenomenon that may shed some light on the level of UK sales...

White Dwarf is not a particularly popular magazine in SA and is sold primarily in gaming outlets only. But recently they have been appearing in newsagents for half the normal retail price - the issues are from the UK and are two months old.

It would seem that unsold magazines are being dumped onto the South African market (a very common practice across all industries in SA apparently). This certainly suggests to me that UK retail sales are down significantly, but the extent of this may be masked from GW because the distributor is the organisation that is allegedly dumping the mags and not the original publisher.

cailus
04-05-2006, 04:02
6/10 for the Aussie one.

The Australian one is marked improvement on 316. There's a far bit of fluff, some interesting hobby tips, tons of stuff on the new Vostroyans and some fluff on Medusa.

It's still not a great issue though.

The large font is still irritating me. I am 26 years old, have two university degrees and am quite literate. The big font looks like it's for idiots or children who have just learned how to read.

And they really need to get some new artwork instead of rehashing the same old stuff.

If GW had any brains whasoever, they would get their fans involved more. Get people to submit cool artwork and fluff.

And believe it or not, but this sort of thing attracts fans to the hobby. I got into WH40K about 10 years ago after I saw the artwork and thought it was cool.

I have no comments on the Battle Report because it's a Lord of the Rings one and they have never been presented as traditional battle reports.

But when it comes to Battle Reports I prefer the old ones (e.g. Black Legion v. Iron Warriors, Chaos versus Eldar (featuring Eldrad and Abbadon). I want lots of detail.

The battle report between the Tau and Sisters of Battle is what got me into Tau. It was detailed enough to showcase the abilities of the army.

GW seem to think that marketing consists of flashy pictures of their models instead of making an engrossing product that engages one on many different levels.

EDIT: Jervis' articles are pointless garbage. There is no point to them whatsoever...

EDIT 2: Skaven article is too simplistic. They need to provide insights or innovative ideas for these tactics and not point out the obvious.

EDIT 3: I enjoyed the articles about Medusa and the rationale behind every forces involvement. The Vostroyan article was good too.

Plaguebeast
04-05-2006, 06:33
I gave the Aus WD 4/10.

This issue is a marked improvement on 316, largely thanks to the Medusa campaign book (which was attached to the back of our WD :rolleyes:) and some very nice army showcases. Yet even the Medusa fluff was rather simplistic, as if written for 12 yrs olds. The Vostroyan article was ok, but lacked the substance of previous 'index' articles. The Skaven 'tactica' (I use the term very loosely) was indicative of how much WD has fallen - actively promoting SAD and severely lacking in meat. As for the bat rep.... Ha, what bat rep? The FOTN bat rep consisted of prodigious amounts of photos, text in large font and each page summarising 3 or so turns!

Plaguebeast

cailus
04-05-2006, 06:58
I gave the Aus WD 4/10.

Yet even the Medusa fluff was rather simplistic, as if written for 12 yrs olds. The Vostroyan article was ok, but lacked the substance of previous 'index' articles. The Skaven 'tactica' (I use the term very loosely) was indicative of how much WD has fallen - actively promoting SAD and severely lacking in meat. As for the bat rep.... Ha, what bat rep? The FOTN bat rep consisted of prodigious amounts of photos, text in large font and each page summarising 3 or so turns!

Plaguebeast


I agree with all the above points.

I really hope some GW head honcho reads this and takes note.

Mr Tiddles
04-05-2006, 09:02
It would seem that unsold magazines are being dumped onto the South African market (a very common practice across all industries in SA apparently). This certainly suggests to me that UK retail sales are down significantly, but the extent of this may be masked from GW because the distributor is the organisation that is allegedly dumping the mags and not the original publisher.

It's common in all magazine publishing to print far more copies than you will ever sell.
It's more important to make sure there is always a copy on the shelf in WH Smiths than it is to sell out.
WD is sold in the same way through a distributor in the UK to newsagents, hence they have always had large numbers of unsold copies.
Sounds like what has happened is that they've found a way to get rid of some of these copies whilst at the same time promoting WD in a new market.

Jedi152
04-05-2006, 09:26
I like the "Here is a 2000pt Vostroyan army the 'Eavy Metal team painted!!". Or rather "here is a 500pt Vostroyan army we painted, and then photoshopped up to 2000pts."

And does anyone else want to see more 'real' armies in the batreps? I liked the fact that the armies used this month weren't the standard studio ones. It'd be nice to have some armies that weren't staff members too, some guest appearances.

cailus
04-05-2006, 10:07
I like the "Here is a 2000pt Vostroyan army the 'Eavy Metal team painted!!". Or rather "here is a 500pt Vostroyan army we painted, and then photoshopped up to 2000pts."

This is what I thought too...

Pravus
04-05-2006, 11:12
5/10 - better than last month, but not much. I will admit, though, that my utter loathing for Skaven probably skews my opinion. My major gripes with it were:

1. Giant painting article - they wouldn't let it lie, would they?
2. The beastman/skaven battle report - apparently, the readership consists of myopic imbeciles if the content is anything to go by.
3. Vostroyan article - it was so nearly good, that its really disappointing they didn't go the extra mile and make it so.
4. Skaven rat-riders ... ffs.

The crisis suit article wasn't bad, if a bit excessive. I did like the kung-pow crisis suits though - made me giggle.

Cacodemon
04-05-2006, 14:05
3/10, didn't do for me either, but still better than last month.

- Still too big pictures and too few words.

- I really hate the ad's in the middle of the mag. Like the Imperial Guard tanks, to me it had quite the opposite effect. I went like holy s**t when I saw the prices for them.

- Then there's still no WHFB background or Mike Walker articles, the ones I really go for in WD.

- Both battle reports were really confusing, and the Warpstone meter thing's just plain retarded.

- Jervis' article was (again) lots of words but nothing said.

+ Tau Battlesuit conversion article gave me ideas.

+ Alex Cairn's Mortificators were beautiful, and I also liked the Traitors.

+ Battle report featured two tournament quality players with fun and good looking armies.

+ The "free" campaign booklet was quite nice.


WD's decline began from the issue 312 when Owen Rees took over. 311 Still had the wonderful Wayfarer's companion to Hell Pit, Hell Pit and Army of the Cairns armylists.

The Judge
06-05-2006, 07:56
I'd say it started to lose the plot when Fat Bloke left, but I suppose Rees has the problem of editing a magazine that isn't allowed content any more.

Jervis Johnson's articles are certainly below what I'd expected.

cailus
06-05-2006, 08:09
In addition to my other comments, I have to say add that the LOTR Battle Report featured in Aussie 317 was TOTAL AND UTTER F@$&ING *****!

It had all the makings of a great battle report - an army consisting soley of Good Heros pitted against the best the evil forces of the Necromancer have to offer.

Yet it was a failure beyond belief.

But there was no detail, no insight into tactics, no tension no anything. All we got was lame summaries in big font with lots of useless photos. Total and utter pointless crap.

The boyz
06-05-2006, 16:03
Issue 317 of WD was a bit of a let down really for me, but then I have come to expect that of WD these days. I was really looking forward to reading about the new Vostoroyans and the Skaven tactics article but both articles where well, rather craptacular.
The Skaven article was by far the worst with abosultley no tactical help what so ever.
The battle report this month was again very dissapointing, with very little writing, except for a thew key highlights during the game.
For me this has to be one of the worst WD issues yet. So much for the vast improvement we where promised taking place after issue 316. I think I am going to start saving my four quid each month and buy something else.

Jedi152
06-05-2006, 16:29
I think 317 will be my last 'til WFB comes out and they do a big section on it.

I don't get the point of the battle reports "LOL i invented teh RAT-RIDERS!!!lol!!1!kewl". How come armies designed for WD lists aren't legal, but some randomer is allowed to just make up a unit for a battle report which counters his armies obvious weakness?

A chaos player might as well 'invent' maruader handgunners, or dwarf sprinters.

tzeentchgiant
06-05-2006, 18:40
I think 317 will be my last 'til WFB comes out and they do a big section on it.

I don't get the point of the battle reports "LOL i invented teh RAT-RIDERS!!!lol!!1!kewl". How come armies designed for WD lists aren't legal, but some randomer is allowed to just make up a unit for a battle report which counters his armies obvious weakness?

A chaos player might as well 'invent' maruader handgunners, or dwarf sprinters.
A chaos player with dwarf sprinters :eek: ;) :p.

How far away is the new edition? I haven't bought a WD since three months ago, I can't say I'm missing them.

Also, whoever starts the nest thread PLEASE MAKE IT A PUBLIC POLL. That's the only way I really know if it's worth getting or not.

TG

Yahuboo
08-05-2006, 16:25
I dont like the way they now do the battle reports for warhammer to concise not a lot of :
" the orc shaman rolled a 1 and his head burst like a ripe melon all over his new suit"
For example

Steel_Legion
09-05-2006, 15:59
yeah, the older bat reps were geat, these are getting worse, 316 was the worst i have ever seen (well there was that kill tema half a year ago...) but 317 was equally bad, but at least they didnt spam 10 pages with "GIANT!!" however the did have 2 saying "buy our tanks cause sales have gone down and were upset!"

Heru Talon
09-05-2006, 16:26
however the did have 2 saying "buy our tanks cause sales have gone down and were upset!"

Well they shoulda thought about that before they raised their prices on them...




We need an editor of WD that isn't afraid to stand up to the Marketing big wigs. Someone who actually cares more about the hobby than selling stuff (loud advertising doesn't sell products, it's engrossment into an interesting hobby that does it).


Hobby Magazine aka White Dwarf = Meant to be about the hobby with a singular info bit about new things that are coming out (mention it once then leave it alone).

Catalogue = We have these already use them rather the WD to show your omgs great spanking new range (sarcasm included).

anarchistica
09-05-2006, 23:36
I've given it a 2. I actually had to go back and check 5 times before i realised i had in fact read everything - i couldn't really remember doing this. I don't get why everyone thinks it's an improvement over the previous 2 issues.

To break it down.

First, advertising. Tau we've seen a hundred times by now, Warhammer stuff we've seen on here about half a year ago, relatively cool Space-Kislev and even cooler but way overpriced buildings.

LOTR. The "designer notes" or "filler i could've guessed" as i like to call it. Useless example armies, showcase with some filler text and a "highlights" batrep.

Then, Standard Bearer. I'm fairly sure Jervis Johnson is dead and they just put his pic up there to make people think that garbage is worth reading. Unless early dementia has kicked in, i refuse to believe that stuff was written by such a brilliant game designer.

40K. A 6 page spread of Space-Kislev with -omfg- two whole pages of text! It was even pretty interesting, dear god. Then some painting stuff, a copy pasted army, Meduse ad and... that's it, apparently. :/

WFB. Four pages of pictures of Skaven with some enlarged captions and "tactics" stuck at the top of the page. If anyone's seen Kuh'Tathors Beastmen tactica that they refused to print... now we know why not. It had text. And was informative. And interesting. And actually was about tactics. You know, what you'd expect from a tactica article. :rolleyes:

A fairly useful tip on roughcoating and an ad inviting you to buy 25 pound/30 euro plastic tanks. Sixty-six guilders... that's a 20% price increase in 4 years.

Of course, more Giant. Six pages of it. I'm tempted to keep a "Giant-counter" in my sig, but i'm too lazy.

Tau painting/modelling stuff. Interesting, just about 4 pages too long.

Batrep. Poorly edited, no oversight, no information, stupid moves (oh, i'm gonna charge your guy with Killing Blow against ogre-sized creatures with my 4 Wound Dragon Ogres... that's a really smart move... hey... wait a minute, how did 3 of them die in one round of combat!?). Ugh.

Showcase. Some nice stuff, it's why i rated it a 2 (along with the Space-Kislev).

Art adept. Some models that i would give no higher than an 8. Yay.

Front line. Some really awesome models, but they're too awesome for WD obviously so we only get to see tiny pics of them.

Filler lists.

Letters page. "Look i made a cabinet/painted minis", "your article made me buy stuff" and "instead of pointing out the rules for Elven Battle Companies are out in the news section, we do it here... while answering a letter".

WD crew page. More people leaving the sinking ship. And people saying "omg i am le sad". More frightening photos. Anyone know David "Swany" Swan? He was the Dutch GW-stores boss (i know some Outriders here met him). He's got exactly the same head and fear-inducing smile as the 3 guys at the top of the page. Perhaps GW is run by those aliens from that movie with Charlie Sheen and they only have one mould.

I wish i could cancel my subscription and get my money back. Maybe i should ask Thatcher to help me. :/

tzeentchgiant
09-05-2006, 23:45
Why can't you cancel your subscription?

TG

anarchistica
10-05-2006, 01:34
Why can't you cancel your subscription?

TG
I'm fairly sure i wouldn't get my money back or it will only be cancelled at the end of the year. I'm going to have a talk about it at GW Amsterdam though.

Hlokk
10-05-2006, 11:27
Just so I'm clear, am I right i thinking GW have just shaved 20 pages off the magazine?

ashc
10-05-2006, 11:43
Yeah, are people referring just in general to WD losing 20 pages, or the fact that they shaved 20 pages off this and last month to give us the "free" Golden Daemon Winners and Medusa V pamphlets?

Ash

Osbad
10-05-2006, 13:13
Well, the page count is now 128 instead of the 146-or-something it used to be a couple of issues back. Of course with issue 316 we got the GD booklet and in 317 we got the Medusa V one, but in the past when they included freebies they didn't reduce the page count (for instance, the Kislev army book the last-but-one GD booklet, etc.) so I am guessing this is a permanent thing. Of course I may be wrong and we will have to wait and see. But can you honestly expect Greed Worship to reverse a page-count reduction just like that?

Estragor
13-05-2006, 12:51
Gave WD317 a 4/10. As I'm only really interested in the 40K section I rated it on this:

Converting Crisis Battlesuits- had some nice ideas but needed more detail.

Vostroyan Fluff- interesting, but no where as indepth as the old Index Astartes

Vostroyan Painting - not a bad beginer guide

Golden Dameon, Dark Millennium & Front Line has some nice minis, but again needed a lot more detail, especially theTraiter Guard army.

Fall of Medusa V booklet was a good read.

Giving WD until issue 320 to improve. After that i just wont buy it if the current standard remains the same.

Crube
14-05-2006, 19:59
I cancelled my sub last month, but still got this issue.. (note regarding GW loss of profit. When refunding the remaining 11 months of a 2 year sub, you should refund £27.50, not £44.... not that I'm complaining....)

It was very poor to say the least

The Giant painting article was interesting and kinda useful... the Medusa Booklet was OK...but

specifically, a few issues that really set it back

Skaven - nothing tactical about it...
Battle rep - Ok, but the maps were so poor as to be effectively non existent. The Warpstone meter was stupid. the pictures were too large...

Too many pictures, the word count continues to decrease issue on issue

The only really positive thing about this issue for me is that it was free...apparantly I may get 318 too due to a computer glitch...

Jedi152
14-05-2006, 20:01
Well guess who's back! Enjoy the cruise? :p

TBH i haven't read 317 outside of when i did when i first picked it up. I won't be bothering to get any more until they run a feature on the new WFB.

Reabe
14-05-2006, 20:15
Too many pictures, the word count continues to decrease issue on issue

Lets make a bet. I'll wager £30 that by 2012, the "White Dwarf Magizine" will consist of 115 pages of the same god-damned model, shown at a slightly different angle each page, with the words "BUY IT!" on the first page. The last 15 pages will be the store addresses repeated for the 389th time, and a letter page, all of them saying somthing along the lines of "OMFG, last issue was some frickin' fantastic, I brought the Red Space Marine codex/Fishmen Kingdoms army book/Squat Empire codex for the 15th time!" or something along those lines.

Norminator
14-05-2006, 21:08
If I actually had any money, I would wager £30 that WD will not exist by then.

cailus
15-05-2006, 00:32
Well, the page count is now 128 instead of the 146-or-something it used to be a couple of issues back. Of course with issue 316 we got the GD booklet and in 317 we got the Medusa V one, but in the past when they included freebies they didn't reduce the page count (for instance, the Kislev army book the last-but-one GD booklet, etc.) so I am guessing this is a permanent thing. Of course I may be wrong and we will have to wait and see. But can you honestly expect Greed Worship to reverse a page-count reduction just like that?

At least you Poms get a "free" Golden Daemon or Medusa V booklet. In Australia they merely shaved off 20 pages. Combine that with a dozen or so pages with extra advertising and you have lost about 30 pages.

Yeah those folks at GW are all about the customer. In fact they are innovators in finding new ways to rip their loyal customers off.

tzeentchgiant
15-05-2006, 09:30
Anar should take note, Crube got his money back.

TG

Danger Rat
15-05-2006, 09:43
I gave it a five, the wfb section wasn't really worth bothering with with yet more stuff on the giant, the skaven article could have been better but with very little tactical advice or background was a wasted article and the battlereport consisted of pictures and in very few words the 2 players droning on about what happened in each turn, no tactics or explanation of why.

The 40k section was much better really enjoyed the tau article on crisis suits etc and the article on the mortifactors was good, even the lotr section was worth reading this month which i usually avoid. Not a bad issue overall and considerably better than last months.

anarchistica
15-05-2006, 14:41
Anar should take note, Crube got his money back.
Yeah i noticed, i'm gonna cancel my sub as soon as possible.

Agent Brown
15-05-2006, 19:03
Don't know how accurate this is, but it's fresh off the GW WD boards:

'I had a look at the Wd 318 in my GW today. Another 6 pages of Giants. The LotR only has one thing. A Battle Report with 5 turns blended in to one. The 3 Wizards Vs the Wargs and Castellands and Orc captains. Another 20+ pages of Advertising. More stuff on the 40K campaign.

Comments (Constructive)
The new terrain pieces are great, and I can se why they make so many pags dedicated to it. But you can stop with the 3 pages of aselling just for that! Same with more stuff, try smaller tekst (its a little button at the top of the page, instead of font 16 the normal 12) and less pictures. The new layout pictures are way to much page consuming.

I thought Wd 317 was trying to go back, but it was a one of. '

Ah well.

75hastings69
15-05-2006, 19:30
If I actually had any money, I would wager £30 that WD will not exist by then.

I actually agree with you. I think that by publishing a half arsed piece of crap alot of people will not bother buying WD as it only really contains the same 18 pages every month (listing every store in the world!!!!) and will just resort to veiwing everything online.

I actually posted this idea on GWs WD forum and had it removed by the MODs as it caused a bit of a stir (I entitled the peice "GWs plan to end their involvement in print media" or something similar, and stated the above as well as that they have recently tried every trick in the book to make the magazine cheaper i.e. moving it to Poland to print (no offense to anyone - just obvious that it must be cheaper to print in Poland and ship back here than print over here in the first place), less and less actual content every month (lets face it the magazine could now be "written" by anyone who can use a word processor and can manipulate pictures to make them REALLY BIG and S P R E A D-------T H E M------A C R O S S ----- S I X T E E N-----P A G E S as well as make the text real big. The whole mag just reaks of half arsed-ness of recent times (about the last 9 months) and I genuinelt beleive that it wont be long until WD is online only - hell not even a month after I put my views on GWs web site and we have a few editions of WD online under our belts already...............

Brandir
15-05-2006, 20:26
WotC used to publish Dragon and Dungeon. They were going nowhere and were a drain on resources. So WotC basically sodl the rights to produce these magazines to Paizo Publishing, a company set up especially for the venture.

By going back to basics Paizo seemed to have stopped the declinein sales and turned around the titles.

A lesson for GW?

Mr Tiddles
15-05-2006, 23:12
(lets face it the magazine could now be "written" by anyone who can use a word processor and can manipulate pictures to make them REALLY BIG and S P R E A D-------T H E M------A C R O S S ----- S I X T E E N-----P A G E S as well as make the text real big. The whole mag just reaks of half arsed-ness of recent times (about the last 9 months) and I genuinelt beleive that it wont be long until WD is online only

Presumably you do not count yourself amongst these fortunate few who can use a word processor?
Or at least a spelling and grammar program.
:evilgrin:

Jedi152
16-05-2006, 07:18
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if what Hastings says come true, and it would be a sad day. White Dwarf is a GW institution - it was one of the things that got me into the hobby, and i must have brought over 150 copies all of my gaming life.

It is sad to see it's decline aswell, but a little frustrating at the way GW is treating it - stuff like listed every store in Europe, a good 6 pages in every months magazine? That's just a waste of pages - and what the website is for.

It's been said a million times already, but where are the decent articles? What's happened to chapter approved and index astartes? What about the wayfarers companion? What about Mike Walker?

Like i said earlier, i'll certainly buy the issue with the new WFB feature in it, but i'll think twice about buying it again rather than just grab it like i normally do (Which will be hard - i have been buying it pretty much every month for the last 12 years).

Maybe we should start a true constructive criticism thread (if there isn't one already) and compile it all into a list to send to the WD team? I'm sure if they see we're not all "lolGW is teh su><><orz!!111!!rofl!1", they'll take our comments seriously.

Osbad
16-05-2006, 07:42
WotC used to publish Dragon and Dungeon. They were going nowhere and were a drain on resources. So WotC basically sodl the rights to produce these magazines to Paizo Publishing, a company set up especially for the venture.

By going back to basics Paizo seemed to have stopped the declinein sales and turned around the titles.

A lesson for GW?

That would indeed solve the problem for me. If GW sold the mag to a company who actually cared about the quality of the product!

ashc
16-05-2006, 09:32
Out of curiosity Brandir, did this transferral of rights result in a less biased magazine?

Ash

Crube
16-05-2006, 10:44
Anarchistica - just give them a call, they were really cool about it with me (and refunded me too much, but hey...)

Jedi - absolutely bloody marvellous. Although thats probably more a RM thread when I get round to it...:D

cookiescrumble
16-05-2006, 11:10
I would cancel mine but it runs out in august anyway.

Gauntlet
16-05-2006, 11:36
I haven't bought a WD since the 'same as every other issue' number 300. What a *******' let down. I'm quite content with thumbing through the latest issue at the newsagents.

tzeentchgiant
16-05-2006, 12:44
I haven't bought a WD since the 'same as every other issue' number 300. What a *******' let down. I'm quite content with thumbing through the latest issue at the newsagents.How does the newsagent feel about that?

:p

TG

ashc
16-05-2006, 12:50
How does the newsagent feel about that?

TG

Especially since they started putting every issue in bags! :D

Ash

Gauntlet
16-05-2006, 13:14
Haven't seen an issue in a bag yet. Not here in Adelaide anyway. I know it's UK you're referring to but is there much difference between UK and OZ in terms of content?

ashc
16-05-2006, 13:53
from what we have heard the content is very similar as im fairly sure we have had people online with grievances at Oz WD.

Ash

Paddy
16-05-2006, 13:56
WD is probably in bags now to stop us flicking through before we buy - hell, you could read the entire content in a few minutes browsing, put it back on the shelf, and then leave without having to buy it.

*sighs*

The Judge
17-05-2006, 16:15
I think they have tried to answer some the complaints - this issue actually had a gamers army for us to look at (all two pages of it), and had some decent fluff for the Vostroyans. Perhaps they're trying to change (back) for the better.

EvC
17-05-2006, 16:34
Oh, they're changing all right, but it's fighting against the tide. The battle report is a perfect example: a battle like that reported three years or so ago would have been a great read, with a little story to whet our appetites, a decent intro to each army and reasons for choices, and explanation of the objective. But these days? They didn't even show us the objective! Apparently it was a huge chunk of warpstone, but it looked more like a signpost to me :rolleyes:

The Judge
18-05-2006, 17:10
I certainly didn't see the objective, and I miss, dearly, the fluff at the beginning and end of the battle reports. At least this month they actually had an army list.

ashc
18-05-2006, 17:18
some of my favourite battle reports are from the around the time of the release of 6th edition warhammer (UK WD250); fluff, full lists, good images, explanations of what and why people were doing things, and extra caption boxes with the occasional specific rules explanation (and not often just the bleeding obvious).


Ash

Flame of Udun
18-05-2006, 17:32
WD is probably in bags now to stop us flicking through before we buy - hell, you could read the entire content in a few minutes browsing, put it back on the shelf, and then leave without having to buy it.

*sighs*

Unless there is something that would otherwise become separated from the mag then I say damn the bags and read them in WHSmiths. I refuse to pay for a magazine where I cannot judge the content beforehand. I mean imagine what it would be like if one day you went in to your local bookshop and all the books had been shrink-wrapped! That would be a nightmare (and I should know since I work in a bookshop)!

Heru Talon
18-05-2006, 17:44
I bet I could rework 317 and 316 into one mag (if I use the space right) and get something that is still a quarter out from what a good WD should be.

Harky
19-05-2006, 08:53
The content keeps getting worse and worse, I use to love the fluff articles and battle reports now it seems like they make them up during their coffe and cigarete breaks standing outside in the rain. I'm seruosly considering not buying WD anymore since I just don't see it as a helpfull hobby magazine. :(