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theshoveller
13-01-2012, 12:49
Something has been troubling me about the Master Engineer's re-roll (of one artillery or scatter die per turn) and about the relationship between the army book text and the FAQ replacement.

Can a Master Engineer re-roll a cannon misfire?

The army book states that the re-roll may not be on the roll used to determine the distance bounced by a cannonball. The FAQ states that it may not be used to re-roll the distance.

The distinction between the two bothers me. Is the difference in the wording significant, or does the latter text implicitly mean the same as the former, in your eyes? I've always thought of the Engineer as the little 65 point chunk that prevents my cannon from blowing itself up... am I not supposed to use him in that way? What's the precedent here?

LiddellHart
13-01-2012, 13:27
The amendments in the FAQ-doc do say: distance bounced, so I see no difference.
The reroll represents the supervision of the Engineer on the crews handling of the machine. But no amount of supervision can change the way it bounces ("krijgsmansgeluk" in Dutch, roughly translated into "warriors luck").

So there is a reroll to avoid misfire, but no reroll to prevent the cannonball being stuck on impact.

theshoveller
13-01-2012, 13:57
The amendments in the FAQ-doc do say: distance bounced, so I see no difference.
The reroll represents the supervision of the Engineer on the crews handling of the machine. But no amount of supervision can change the way it bounces ("krijgsmansgeluk" in Dutch, roughly translated into "warriors luck").

So there is a reroll to avoid misfire, but no reroll to prevent the cannonball being stuck on impact.
I think you've missed my point - it's the same roll. They've not made the distinction clear. By the 7th edition wording, the misfire can't be re-rolled (since it's also the distance roll). Now, I grant you that common sense says that a misfire result and a distance result don't represent the same thing from the model's point of view, but I hate to get into an argument with a pedantic opponent on the subject.

Lord Zarkov
13-01-2012, 14:06
I think you've missed my point - it's the same roll. They've not made the distinction clear. By the 7th edition wording, the misfire can't be re-rolled (since it's also the distance roll). Now, I grant you that common sense says that a misfire result and a distance result don't represent the same thing from the model's point of view, but I hate to get into an argument with a pedantic opponent on the subject.

The rule in the FAQ is "one war machine that is within 3" of a Master
Engineer may re-roll either one scatter dice or one artillery dice
per turn. This may not be used to re-roll the distance bounced
by a cannonball" (emphasis mine)

A cannon rolls the Artillary dice twice when it fires: the first time to determine the distance it goes before it lands (which it the one that determines if it misfires); and the second afterwards to determine how far it 'bounces' (which determines the models hit), this second roll is the only one ever referred to as a 'bounce'.

The first roll can be re-rolled by the Master Engineer, the second cannot.

Since only a misfire result in the first dice (which can be re-rolled) causes a misfire on the cannon, you can use the Engineer to re-roll misfires.

theshoveller
13-01-2012, 14:27
The rule in the FAQ is "one war machine that is within 3" of a Master
Engineer may re-roll either one scatter dice or one artillery dice
per turn. This may not be used to re-roll the distance bounced
by a cannonball" (emphasis mine)

A cannon rolls the Artillary dice twice when it fires: the first time to determine the distance it goes before it lands (which it the one that determines if it misfires); and the second afterwards to determine how far it 'bounces' (which determines the models hit), this second roll is the only one ever referred to as a 'bounce'.

The first roll can be re-rolled by the Master Engineer, the second cannot.

Since only a misfire result in the first dice (which can be re-rolled) causes a misfire on the cannon, you can use the Engineer to re-roll misfires.
Ah, yes, I see your point. The first roll isn't a bounce, it's drift or deviation.

Well that's a relief.

Ta.