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Sh4d0w
17-01-2012, 09:26
So our local store for some reason is mainly split into dwarf players and chaos warrior players, we have other armies but they don't show up as much. Us Dwarf players in general seem to have a rather big upper hand on the chaos players so much they're starting to call dwarfs dirty, so now the question is to you.

Are they dirty? Or is it just a favored match up for the dwarfs.

Memnos
17-01-2012, 09:31
Depends. Why don't you let your Chaos opponents take your Dwarfs and you take the Chaos army, switch around and see how it plays out?

There are too many variables to answer this intelligently: Are you playing cannon-heavy against their Monster Mash? Are they magic heavy against your Super-dispel list? Do the Dwarf players tend to have a lot more experience?

Sh4d0w
17-01-2012, 09:36
Well the experience levels are roughly even, your right the question was abit vague but it's hard to make one in a poll, nobody uses a rough amount of guns infact nobody uses any thunderers or xbows just blocks of infantry and usually 2 organ gun and other war machines, and they don't really use any monsters, they claim that because we are dwarfs they can't get any magic through.

i did actually swap armies with this guy for a game, it was close but i did manage to beat him even getting off spells at the same time. Maybe they are just a little thick >.>

Edit: How many war machines do you think is too many?

Kalandros
17-01-2012, 09:52
at 2500 pts, 3 is ok, 4 is the most I would face and anymore than this is just abusing the ridiculous potential of war machines, they've made them way too good.

Rosstifer
17-01-2012, 10:50
Get all the Chaos players to load up on Chosen and Khorne Marauders. Chaos should beat Dwarves more often than not, though it's not the easiest match up for either side.

The Low King
17-01-2012, 11:27
at 2500 pts, 3 is ok, 4 is the most I would face and anymore than this is just abusing the ridiculous potential of war machines, they've made them way too good.

great, another one. If you want that discussion (and if you dont then dont post it) go on the thred where the discussion of artillery is.

The standard (as in internet) dwarf list has 5 warmachines.


Chaos have better elite troops and better GW horde troops. In combat they should be able to win.

They also have the ability to be insane at magic (too much for dwarfs)

They also have access to a warmachine that makes Dwarfs envious and some very good warmachine hunters.

Their characters are better than dwarfs and their LD similar.

If they arnt taking any magic (and the dwarfs are taking magic defence) then they should be able to win.

Snake1311
17-01-2012, 11:43
If you are playing without any comp, either the chosen deathstar or double hellcannon are pretty impossible to deal with (well, very very uphill anyway), obviously assuming that the rest of the points aren't filled with forsaken.

If you are playing with the widely-accepted comp (i.e. unit point/model caps, WoC: 0-1 hellcannons, enemy chars getting look out vs gateway; dwafs - 4-5 WM max, cap on DD/scrolls), then the match is pretty even I suppose. The new trend with UFO lists (almost fully tzeentch WoC with a chaos knight deathstar and 2-3 heroes on disks) tends to take a dump on standard dwarf lists.

Lore of Shadow also goes a long way.

TL;DR I'd say Chaos have the upper hand in the matchup regardless of comp, but will need to use some thinking beyond "I push my blocks directly forward and own everything cuz im awesum" which is the mentality of most new/bad chaos players.

reddevil18
17-01-2012, 12:55
I have only played against dwarfs about 4 times, beaten them once and got shot to bits before reaching combat, at least with anything in a decent size the other 3 times. Only time i did win one was with the chosen 3+ wsv block of about 40.

Snake1311
17-01-2012, 15:15
I have only played against dwarfs about 4 times, beaten them once and got shot to bits before reaching combat, at least with anything in a decent size the other 3 times. Only time i did win one was with the chosen 3+ wsv block of about 40.

What lists/tactics ddi you use? No offense, but it just sounds like you walked in a straight line towards them :D why people do that an expect victory is beyond me. The fact that the chosen deathstar can win games that way even if you have an IQ of 40 and a metal beam stuck through your brain is the exception, not the rule (and also why its comped out everywhere)

Echunia
17-01-2012, 15:17
In my experience, all mainly shooting armies do well vs chaos.

SkawtheFalconer
17-01-2012, 16:32
Dwarfs is a very tough match up for Chaos. Chaos would need to be near full strength to beat Dwarfs in combat, and they almost never are due to warmachines and crossbows etc.

The Low King
17-01-2012, 17:36
why? chaos marauders are as good as dwarf GW warriors for far less.

Chaos warriors are simply beasts in combat, crossbows tend to bounce of them.

Okuto
17-01-2012, 17:57
Dwarves are not dirty......with dwarves....what you see is what you get.....they're reliable, efficient, all business and that's why I love them.....

No horrible miscast, little random-ness, just cold hard drinking bearded chaps

I fail to see why those dastardly chaos warriors would call foul with all the flashy bits they have

reddevil18
17-01-2012, 18:26
What lists/tactics ddi you use? No offense, but it just sounds like you walked in a straight line towards them :D why people do that an expect victory is beyond me. The fact that the chosen deathstar can win games that way even if you have an IQ of 40 and a metal beam stuck through your brain is the exception, not the rule (and also why its comped out everywhere)

My list was mainly 20 warriors 50 maraders 7 knights sorc lord on disk 2 hell cannons and some hounds, I went towards him as quickly as i could trying to use the cover and use my cannons to take his out but i just got shot to bits.
He had an anvil slowing me down as well.
Didnt help on one of those times we were playing length ways

Chickenbane
17-01-2012, 18:43
Didnt help on one of those times we were playing length ways

I did that once,(tyranids vs SM) one of the most horrifically one sided games ever. I still have nightmares about it.:o

The Low King
17-01-2012, 19:12
My list was mainly 20 warriors 50 maraders 7 knights sorc lord on disk 2 hell cannons and some hounds, I went towards him as quickly as i could trying to use the cover and use my cannons to take his out but i just got shot to bits.
He had an anvil slowing me down as well.
Didnt help on one of those times we were playing length ways

you should use the sorc lord to take out his cannons (give him 3+ ward and stubborn) whilst your hellcannons hit his blocks of infantry. Dwarf infantry really starts to lose power once you start taking ranks off because they get killed before they can strike.

Snake1311
18-01-2012, 00:33
you should use the sorc lord to take out his cannons (give him 3+ ward and stubborn) whilst your hellcannons hit his blocks of infantry. Dwarf infantry really starts to lose power once you start taking ranks off because they get killed before they can strike.

If the dwarf has half a brain he'll Anvil the disc and he'll be at M1.

This just sounds like bad luck. 1) Hellcannons are extremely difficult to take out with cannons because of the high wounds and the crew (i.e. 5+ ward), so two of them going down is very unlikely. 2) The Anvil is an unreliable piece of crap and misfires once a game on average even if you're careful with it. 3) for his shooting to dent you that badly (assuming you screened yourself with your hounds) the guy must have rolled like a god. 4) Go ahead and force irresistable treason of tzeentch on his GW blocks, the spell is retardedly effective.

Maskedman5oh4
18-01-2012, 01:54
What interesting poll options.... :rolleyes:

The Low King
18-01-2012, 16:13
If he in anviling the disk then he isnt slowing the massive scary blocks marching towards him

Dark Aly
18-01-2012, 16:19
If he in anviling the disk then he isnt slowing the massive scary blocks marching towards him

But if he doesn't anvil the disk he'll be fighting it in CC and not be anviling anything.

H33D
18-01-2012, 16:36
Yeah you want to guard your anvil with a lone character or strategic deployment (best: both).

My favorite is to put it in a corner and put an organ gun on my deployment line about 12" in to keep scouts away and put a big threat bubble in that same corner.

My absolute favorite however, is to not bring an Anvil. I play Dwarfs, I want reliable.

Chaos vs. Dwarfs to me has always been a fairly even battle. The magic on the chaos side and the shooting on the Dwarf side are roughly on par IMHO, and they both are excellent close combat armies. Dwarfs being able to shut down magic and really hurt chaos with shooting is what leads me to believe they have a better shot at this matchup.

My priority against Chaos:

Miners -> Hellcannon(s)
Grudge Thrower(s) -> Marauder Hordes (GW or Flail)
Cannon -> Knights, Disk, Monsters
Organ Gun -> Scouts, Hounds

I usually bring 1 unit of 10-15 miners with a steam drill, a grudge thrower with accuracy and 2 penetrating runes with an engineer, a cannon with forging and an engineer, an organ gun, a runelord, a bsb, and as many large axes as i can afford.

Anything that makes it to your lines should have enough holes in it, and if your magic defense worked well enough against the chaos player, your lines should be holding up well.

Overall I would put Chaos above Dwarfs, but as far as their specific matchup, Dwarfs have the upper hand IMHO.

Snake1311
18-01-2012, 22:21
Miners -> Hellcannon(s)
Grudge Thrower(s) -> Marauder Hordes (GW or Flail)
Cannon -> Knights, Disk, Monsters
Organ Gun -> Scouts, Hounds



Woooow, you have no clue. Miners do like 1 wound on the HC per turn, and in return it does more than 4. GTs are better off aiming at warriors. The cannon you've got kind of right. What scouts for the OG? And hounds are a low priority target for it as well.

You're right about the Anvil though.