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Scorpeao
18-01-2012, 14:05
I had a unusual situation with my last battle VS TK.
My unit of Ironguts with Bruiser charged into his horde of skeletons with vampire. And my mournfang cav charged the side.
Vampire challenged and this was accepted.
At the end of the second turn the ogres had almost competely wiped out the skeletons except for the vampire (who still was in challenge)
My question goes about the subsequent turns.
The mournfangs were comptelety blocked as the vamp in challenge was on the side of the remaining unit.
see below
> = mournfang cav
X = vamp
x = skeleton
O = Bruiser
o = Ironguts

>
>
> Xxxxx xxxx
oOoooo

Can the unit of sabretusks reform? or do they have to wait for the challenge to be completed?

dementian
18-01-2012, 16:17
Sabretusks? TK?

I'm a bit confused of this actual situation you are describing as you have no sabretusks so why could they not reform? If you mean the mournfang I would say they are still considered to be in combat so would have to reform depending on if they lost combat or won.

MrMasochist
18-01-2012, 23:43
This is a bit strange and i have a few questions...

What are the actual units and armies involved? you mentioned tomb kings, vampires, ogre.kingdoms, mournfangs, sabretusks and skelletons..

Is the
>
>
> Xxxxxxxx
oOooooo
diagram correct? because it seems like you arent maximising models fighting.

Shenanigans aside this is definately a tricky one. my suggestion would be fighting as if there werent a vampire there but another skeleton. In the long run this is probably the most efficient way to overcome the issue. You are going to be removing skeletons from the combat first anyway. the fact that there is a vampire there doesnt really matter. you are attacking the unit and are in base contact with a member of the unit. you just cant target that particular model due to the challenge.

If you were fighting 25mm bases against 20mm bases (chaos vs empire) and you had a 25mm hero directly across from a 20mm rank and file trooper (ie. no corners touching) and a 20mm hero beside him (touching the 25mm heros base) and the two heroes are in a challenge then technically speaking the rank and file trooper is not in base contact with a model he can attack... i doubt anyone is going to make you lose that attack because he is still smack bang in the middle of the fight. the same logic applys to your situation.

Chaos - o
chaos hero - O
empire - x
empire hero - X

o o O o o
xxxXxxx

Fifth along...

Thanks

Alcibiades
19-01-2012, 02:31
What are the actual units and armies involved? you mentioned tomb kings, vampires, ogre.kingdoms, mournfangs, sabretusks and skelletons..
He said TK, but obviously meant OK. There's a unit of mournfangs who flank charged a unit of skeletons which was already in combat with some Iron Guts. Someone who types as carelessly as you do should be a little more generous when reading others' posts.


Is the
>
>
> Xxxxxxxx
oOooooo
diagram correct? because it seems like you arent maximising models fighting.
If the Guts charged first, then the diagram looks completely legal.


i doubt anyone is going to make you lose that attack because he is still smack bang in the middle of the fight. the same logic applys to your situation.
The rules say that if you're not in contact with something you can hit, you don't fight. The mournfangs are still locked in combat (and therefore unable to reform), but are unable to hit anything. It's one of the major bonuses of fighting a challenge, particularly with a character on the flank of a unit.

Scorpeao
19-01-2012, 07:55
I've indeed mixed up some things there (was kinda in a hurry)
:o

to be clear, I played OK the opponent TK

Thanks anyway for the clear answers

LiddellHart
19-01-2012, 09:30
So how did the Tomb Kings end up enlisting a Vampire? :p

T10
19-01-2012, 10:26
As I understand it you've got a single rank of rank-and-file models with a character at the end, and the flanking unit is in contact with only the character, and the character is fighting in a challenge.

In this case the flanking unit cannot attack the rank-and-file. This is because models can only direct their attacks against models in base contact, and the only model they are in contact with is the character, and the character is an invalid target because he is fighting in a challenge.

-T10

EvanDynamic
21-01-2012, 01:42
Isn't this a case of Shrinking Units or No More Foes (p61) under "Multiple Close Combats?"

OP's question: yes they can reform. The mournfangs aren't "engaged" with another unit. They are not 'in combat' since no models in the entire unit are combating another model. If they are to be considered in combat, the mournfangs and/or skeletons slide over across the gap as if there were incomplete ranks, or "fight across the gap" since "in reality chargers would not have stopped one step away from the enemy and would have moved in to continue the fight--treat these models as being in base contact with the enemy."

I would say in no interpretation would they be 'in combat' without at least one model combating another model. In or out, reform or fight across gap.