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karnn
23-04-2006, 01:22
I can't choose out of Chaos space Marines or LATD. I plan to use the army i choose in the fall of medusa v coming up.
I have 20 uruk-hai which i was planing to use as mutants and 1 leman russ for a traitor tank if i go LATD but i like both forces evenly.

I see all chaos as pirates/rogues doing what they want no rules binding them. I would not worship the gods as such but see them as an ally.

Chaos space marines i see as great warriors but weaker than there False imperial kin. They call forth demons and beasts from the warp and there lords are the greatest warrirors but my problem with chaos is i can not choose what god plus most of there minis are metal and i prefer plastic.

Now Lost and the Damned i see as 1 great champion who takes control of a weaker force but one that has number i see them corrupting worlds taking over there forces. Causing uprisings and calling mutants to them. But i see them as a weak force which is held togher by its numbers but i would not use a horde army but a normal sized army. One problem is what god.

But any advice would be helpful thanks :D

calicojack
23-04-2006, 01:42
Well, obviously LatD is the more fun of the two [grins with obvious bias]. That said, CSM is admittedly simpler [not necessarily easier, just simpler] to build with a competetive strategy. LatD also works best with a number of Chaos Powers represented, so a "mixed undivided" force.

And welcome to the fold.

Subtext
23-04-2006, 01:53
Take LatD!

Reasons:

1. You will never have to hear: "OMG another Marine Army."
2. They are Underdogs.
3. They are normal humans.
4. They are not marines.
...

Now you better choose LatD or I'll stab you in the eye with a really hot french fry!

MorningStar
23-04-2006, 02:19
I would go with the LatD army, with some CSM as allies. Cause just about everything you read about the CSM they are always a small warband with the LatD being the main force.

broken_system
23-04-2006, 08:04
Agreed, you should go with LATD. Very fun army indeed, ive got 3000pts of them :P

A good reason "fluff-wise" to go with them aswell is that: sure, chaos suffers from not being able to boost their numbers very quickly, but when you convert entire worlds to turn traitor, just another boost in the army for the runious powers. Thats why i love to play them. A couple friends play Guard, with their strict regiments and the like, its always fun to take a traitor army, mixed with some Chaos allies and show them what they are missing out on :P

There are soo many different conversion possibilities aswell. Right now i play 3 different Chaos Lists. The first and my main List is a traitor guard army with some allies. It concists mainly of Traitor Guard, Recon and Tanks, also including a healthy amount of chaos allies. I am modeling them with Catachan Jungle fighter bits and green stuff. They look like "Terrorists" with modified plastic lasguns to look (very similar) to ak47's. That army is very fun to play with looks very unique.

My second army list is a mutant heavy army. It concists of Mutant Squads (obviously :P) with some Big Mutant units, a small dose of allied chaos units, some daemons, and sometimes spawn units. Conversion possibilities are virtually endless with this type of force altho as you were mentioning about having The Uruk-Hai I would say use these models only for friendly games because for tournament situations people may have a problem with you using LOTR models in your army. Maybe they wont but its happened in and around my area where gaming clubs dont have a problem with it as long as its in a friendly game and not a tournament.

Lastly its my straight chaos army. For either of the three lists I use Alpha Legion. Undivided obviously. I use this Legion because I love the story behind them and their style of play. They are cool because at any given time they could be on any imperial world sneaking their way around and causing cultist activity. It also fits my Traitor themed army very well. For that army I use the Alpha Legion Marines as the main cause of the rebellion and the tanks/units/etc that they bring represent the amount of blasphemous theachings and such that hte AL Marines were able to incite.

Anywho I am a definet yes on going with LATD. They have great fluff, a great story Line, and are one of the bigger threats to the imperium. Not only do the imperium have to fight off attacks from existing legions of these traitors and mutants, but they have to keep a close watch on their own people to watch for signs of traitor and cultist activity.

Just one last thing: ..."join the darkside....i mean the Traitor/Mutant/Chaos Side!" lol

Ive been noticing a sudden boom in popularity in LATD recently. Not only on this forrum but aswell as my local store. When EOT was due to start i was the first among the players at our store to start an LATD army because I was looking for a new Army to start and conviniently they looked awsome to me at the time and so I went for them. Ive never regretted that choice, or decided to switch armies either. There are just soo many different possibilities, units, traits, abilities, fluff, conversion possibilities that you will never get bored of this army. Im not joking either: If you feel bored of making Chaos marine units, get some units of Mutants for a more Horde feel, or go for some traitor guard units for that Army feel. Dont like beings from this world you say? Get some Daemons to do your bidding. The possibilities never end. Ive been playing this army for a long time and still have more and more Ideas on how to add different units, different modeling possibilities and different ways of using them.

So if you feel like an army that will give you a very big commitment and reward, go with LATD. Its not an army to play for a year and get bored with. Once you start, you really cant stop.

Hope this helps :)

karnn
23-04-2006, 08:35
I think i'll go with LATD with chaos allies.
But im a bit unsure on how to go.
I will use cadian Minis as traitors so i'll get a pack of them. But mutants i don't have alot of money to spend on different box sets to convert so what would be the easiest way?

Also the big problem is what god???

I like Khorne he is great warrior but i try to base an army on how i would act and feel and i don't feel angry all the time and want to kill everyone for no reason.

Nurgle is like but i dislike sickens i see it as smart but weak to put plaugh on your enemy.

Tzeentch is see as master of magic but no good in combat but i see him as what real demons would be like "I see khornes demons as demons stereo type-Nurgle i see as sick ugly people and Slannesh are well not demons in my eyes".

Slaanesh i don't like but i do like the idea of acting though pleasure.

Undivided is good a mix but i do want someone with the mark can i take my chaos with mark and my LATD without or how can i make it all work???

Skippy
23-04-2006, 14:51
I have no idea how things are done with the Marks, but I'd choose undivided anyway. And if I'm right, you can buy a pack of mutants and you won't have to convert anything.

calicojack
23-04-2006, 17:57
Single boxed sets for easy mutants representation? Either zombies [for a zombie - not necessarily nurgle - theme], or beastmen [for a jungle monster theme]. Really, the first thing to consider for LatD is the visual theme of your army. From there, you can easily figure out what models you want to use for what.

I'm pretty sure there are other threads on these boards exploring "how to get started woth Lost and Damned" and "what tactics and strategy to use for Lost and Damned." Just do a forums search for "LatD" [since not everyone spells "lost and the damned" correctly in their subject lines]. That should get you started. Theme first, models next. For mutants, after all, just about any model type can easily represent any of the mutations.

As for the "what god" question, again, the LatD generally mixes what "marks" they can get. The "what god" question really only comes up in regards to the Chaos Marine Allies, if you want them to be from a particular Legion [for example, if you ally with World Eaters, you won't have any Arch Heretics or Aspiring Champions with the Mark of Slaanesh]. Find a visual theme first.

Then consider marks. Without knowling your preferred play style, your strategies, your tactics, and your normal opponents, we really can't suggest specifics. But general concensus in the replies thus far is "both modelling and playing LatD is more fun."

Before you buy models, have a look at the LatD strategy and tactics thread (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29482), which looks at the core structures of the LatD list [eg, three main Troops choices around which to build an army and a strategy]. Speaking of which, in addition to IG boxed sets for easy Traitors, and beastmen or zombies for easy Mutants, a box of Gnoblars and a bag of large bases can make excellent Gibbering Hordes with not a lot of "coversion experience and skill" required.

Rabid Bunny 666
23-04-2006, 18:12
I think i'll go with LATD with chaos allies.
But im a bit unsure on how to go.
I will use cadian Minis as traitors so i'll get a pack of them. But mutants i don't have alot of money to spend on different box sets to convert so what would be the easiest way?


Beastmen dude, they will look hellabetter than dodgy conversions

Kjell
23-04-2006, 18:21
Skaven Plague Monks could work well as Mutants, too. You don't have to paint them to look like they're rotting, you know.

broken_system
24-04-2006, 00:41
Just out of the blue I am going to say that IMO Undivided would theoretically be the only type of Chaos that would concider using Traitors. Mutants would be a different story because im sure Nurgle would be happy to have more mutant instruments of death to acompany them.

Let me walk through the different gods and why or why not they would concider taking allied guard or mutants. This is really how I chose my theme.

Khorne: When i think of Khorne i think of mindless killers set out on a rampage to kill and destroy. They would have too much violence on their mind to concider having any kind of ally. They dont care who or what dies as long as something dies. So in essence they would rather take more of their numbers to battle than some rinky-dink guardsmen who dont near have the combat ability that they possess. They may concider taking mutants to help rush up and smash their opponents to pieces but I still think that would be unlikely. The only reason that Khorne would take allies would be to slow the opponents down by a mound of dead bodies, ergo sending the guardsmen on suicide runs.

Nurgle would gladly take Mutants because it just seems to fit with them. They wouldnt take guard traitors and im sure that the traitor legions of guard would rather try and survive on their own than fight with a disease ridden army where even if they do survive the fighting, they will succumb to disease and rot shortly after.

Slannesh only care about pleasure for pleasures sake. They are very selfish. Mutants would seem to freeform, too discusting for their "perfect" tastes. Traitor Guardsmen might be taken with them so that they could fullfill their darkest desires while waiting to arrive at the battlezone. I wouldnt see them making good use of them strategy-wise.

Tzeentch: The god of change and evolution. One could argue that mutants would be the result of their spells. Changing hapless lifeforms into what they desire, beit combat beasts, or whatever they choose. I would highly doubt the inclusion of Traitor Guard because of the Rubric of Ahraman. After that spell was set, all those with sorcerous abilities were kept and had their powers augmented, while those without turned into mindless automations, having their souls trapped in their armor. They only care about the magically inclined and the progress of their own powers. So i wouldnt see an army of Tzeentchian sorceres and rubric marines wanting to fight along side the pitiful guardsmen who either turned to chaos to prolong their life by a small margin, or for their own selfish desire of riches and power.

Then comes Undivided. The middle-ground chaos. They do not worship one god in particular, sometimes worship all, sometimes none. They use what suits them best at that particular time. Therefore i see a strong likelyhood of them using Traitor Guard and Mutants when it suits them best. Beit to take a certain objective, to use them as a distraction, or whatever other tactic they might have in store for their newly acquired pawns.

This is just my opinion in regards to how each god would fit in "fluff" wise. I know that the rules allow any mark of any god, but to me it just seems to make more sense for undivided to be the main user of Traitor Guard and Mutants.

It would make sense to have primarily undivided allied chaos units with a few other units with a mark arguing that they were allied before the inclusion of the Traitors, which would make sense, but to me it just seems more fitting to have a completely undivided force.

In terms of rules it makes more sense to be undivided aswell. Instead of paying a heap of extra points to give your units a certain ability from a certain patron god, you could be spending those points on another unit, and keeping the numbers up. Also if you choose undivided, you can have the allied chaos units from certain legions, such as Alpha legion, Wordbearers, Nightlords and Iron Warriors.

Its really up to you but as stated earlier, you should really have a "set in stone" theme before you start concidering what models to buy. Before I started my LATD purchases, I went through about 5-10 different lists and themes that I could use before i finally decided on my Undivided Alpha Legion of the Damned. From there purchases were simple because I already had a basic idea of what I wanted to include in my army. Therefore I Maximized my effectiveness in purchases, rather than buy models for a unit that I may decide not to use somewhere down the line.

My suggestion, go undivided unless you have a strong desire to theme your army towards a certain god/playing style. Good luck!

broken_system
24-04-2006, 00:50
As for my Mutant models, I use Ork legs, torsos and arms. Then I use the mutation bits from the Chaos Space Marine boxes (i ordered in a few sprews of these aswell) and when mixed together with the odd choppa, slugga and shoota, it makes for a really "beefy" looking mutant squad. Personally I really dont like the mix of ork, guard, zombies, and the like because the models end up being very misproportional and some say that this is a good thing, but Mine look very appropriate, big, and most of all mean.

Chem-Dog
24-04-2006, 05:57
The Plague Monks would work great, I made this fella with a spare body from the Rat Ogres box with a couple of IG spares

karnn
26-04-2006, 08:46
Would people be angry about using warhammer models in 40k plague monks is a nice idea but will people care about square baces. and what about big mutants i was thinking ogres?

Now i have though about it and either Undivided or Nurgle.

I don't like the idea of sickness as a weapon i like waht they look like and like Typhus lol although i could not use him.

Undivided i like as well but i want a themed army if i took undived i would use Word Bearers as alies.