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cosy
23-01-2012, 18:45
Hellow people,

I'm going to have 2000 points game with tomb kings (that I have never played before) against an experienced vampire counts player who already has played three games with the new rules.

I really want to prove him that the kings are every bit as fun and powerful as the counts, care to help me?

It is a friendly game but but there is no holding back and every unit, including special characters, is available.

I'm open to your suggestions :-)

TheOneHawk
23-01-2012, 18:55
Khalida with a bajillion archers >.>

cosy
23-01-2012, 20:36
that's what i had in mind: strong, fluffy and fun, thanks :-)

other suggestions?

Lebowski
23-01-2012, 23:31
Khalida with a bajillion archers >.>

If you opponent is experienced I am pretty sure you will have problems with this matchup ;)

Sexiest_hero
24-01-2012, 07:27
I play both armies ad there are two ways to beat them, First you play the range game. The more casulties you inflict at range, the more you force him to waste magic on raising troops. If you play VC you know how a bad Magic phase and hurt. Archers catapults and casket rule the roost here. U the folding fortress and dump all the Archers or MI with a flaming banner in it. Put flaming on your catapults.

Out deploy,Vampires players have a bad habit of hoarding up units. mass grave guard or Ghouls or the new MI. Take a few horsemen archer drops to out deploy him, Make him have to shift his battlelines and come at you in a vertical angle, give yourself lots of room to back up as you fire. Never line up right in front of him and let him zerg you.

VC are cursed to try and stay within their 12" general bubble. See if yo can bait a unit into a charge that will leave them out of range. Chariots work wonders or this. Trust me He wants his grave guard to be able to march.

Take a lore of light. Take a lvl 2 Lore of light wizard. He's gonna take a back up wizard so you might as well too. The light wizard is your answer to eathereal units.

New VC players and old suddenly think they can run casty vampires into combat and laugh. Teach them what killing blow is about. Tomb scorpions are still good at this. A lot of VC players will be over confident with their lord knowing there is a back up caster in a bunker, till the scorpions and Stalkers stard digging their way out. Give units killing blow when possible. All it takes is one dice roll to drop that Vamp lord.

Ville
24-01-2012, 07:34
Yeah, Killing Blow is your friend. VC lost the magic armour that gave immunity to KB, so I would exploit that to the fullest. Casket of Souls is very nasty, especially to units outside of Inspiring Presence, as VC generally have abysmal Leadership. I wouldn't expect there to be as much Ghouls (Poisoned attacks) present as before, so high Toughness monsters could be better than before.

cosy
24-01-2012, 12:49
Thanks guys! Very good points out there!

I still have a week to make a suitable army, can't wait! ;-)

Von Wibble
24-01-2012, 14:30
Lots of VC models have low ld (unless in range of the general) so I'd take a casket

Lots of good VC models have low I so I'd take stalkers.

But then, I always take these 2 units anyway.

LevDaddy
24-01-2012, 17:03
If he does 'bubble up' with lots of infantry, you'll be set up for a nice juicy Skullstorm right through his lines. I'd consider taking a lvl 4 Hiero in a unit of Horsemen. Since you'll probably out-deploy him and he has no shooting, you can ensure that unit a safe route into his flank. A Power Scroll can be handy, as can Nefarra's Scroll (for a big one).

Agreed that you should have some Horse Archers as well, in case he goes old school and rolls a unit of Blood Knights out there. Bait those suckers away from your lines. Horse Archers will not let you out-deploy (as mentioned a few threads ago) him since they are Scouts, but small units of Horsemen, will.

Some great tips in this thread that I'll be sure to use when I face VC next. KB will set you free.

skirder
24-01-2012, 19:44
If you go khalida you NEED the folding fortress. he will be able to get at your archers be turn 3 no matter what you do, so the fortress is the only way to really keep them alive and not tied in combat. I took a Khalida/lore of light list against a vc, and i didn't even kill half a unit of grave guard before i was in close combat.

Rake
25-01-2012, 10:41
ummm... Folding fortress in a friendly game? Not very friendly, TBH. Taking Khalida and 80 arches is already mean enough... The match up is pretty decent either way. Tomb Kings loose out on variety of power builds, not effectiveness thereof vs the new VC.

cosy
25-01-2012, 16:28
ummm... Folding fortress in a friendly game? Not very friendly, TBH. Taking Khalida and 80 arches is already mean enough... The match up is pretty decent either way. Tomb Kings loose out on variety of power builds, not effectiveness thereof vs the new VC.

That's not a problem, we have an important rule in our group - no restrictions- everything goes as long as you don't use the same thing all the time! That's just our way to experience the game at every aspect. And...I'm sure he will not grumble if I have enought beer in the house ;-).

sulla
25-01-2012, 20:59
That's not a problem, we have an important rule in our group - no restrictions- everything goes as long as you don't use the same thing all the time! That's just our way to experience the game at every aspect. And...I'm sure he will not grumble if I have enought beer in the house ;-).Good rule.

ewar
26-01-2012, 21:43
If you go khalida you NEED the folding fortress. he will be able to get at your archers be turn 3 no matter what you do, so the fortress is the only way to really keep them alive and not tied in combat. I took a Khalida/lore of light list against a vc, and i didn't even kill half a unit of grave guard before i was in close combat.

To make that list work you need to use sphinx to hold up key units. I've also seen running conga lines of horsemen with a champ at the front (the cheesiest of 'tactics') is also a good way to go. Any re-directors are key, to maximise the shooting time.

LevDaddy
26-01-2012, 22:46
How many stories in that Fortress? Fozzrik's Folding Skyscraper?

You'd need at least 10 to make it worthwhile to put Khalida in there with the Archers, and that thing will probably tip over...

The Low King
26-01-2012, 23:29
I believe the broken bit is that you can say there is an infinite number of floors.....

Maoriboy007
27-01-2012, 00:03
That's not a problem, we have an important rule in our group - no restrictions- everything goes as long as you don't use the same thing all the time! That's just our way to experience the game at every aspect. And...I'm sure he will not grumble if I have enought beer in the house ;-).


Good rule.

Is that a hint for me to start buying beer?

Do you have any idea what he might take?
The Red Fury / Quickblade / Str Sword Combo is Brutal in combat but Halberd Tomb Guard will scare him as he will be deathly afraid of putting characters anywhere near killing blow.
The GW Grave Guard Bat swarm Cart Combo combo is one to watch out for ,not particularly powerful but if he gets it off then You strike last while his GW Guard strike at initiative order.
MWBD will match fairly evenly vs his re-roll spell so pick a magic turn and stifle it with a scroll.

LevDaddy
27-01-2012, 13:31
Zuh? You can't do that. To use the item you have to have a suitable sized fortress which have a finite height and number of floors. To do otherwise is cheating. The reason why there are defined floors in the first place is to prevent moves like this.

Asymmetric
27-01-2012, 19:30
The necrosphinx character assassins should prove highly effective against VC, given there reliance on characters.

Basically Necrosphinx's make great flying character killers, since all there basic attacks are KB and they simply don't give a damn about return attacks from non-poison rank and file troops (or for that matter most combat characters). Furthermore, the enscrolled blades spell further boosts there killing blow potential. Throwing a pair of Necrosphinx's at key Vampire count targets (there general/lvl 4 caster) should prove fruitful most of the time.

oldWitheredCorpse
30-01-2012, 11:12
Yeah, if the combat vamp lord is focussed on red fury and ASF (= re-rolls to hit), they won't have access to S7 or higher. Then wounding the necrosphinx becomes as hard as killing blow the vamp.

warplock
30-01-2012, 11:51
Yeah, if the combat vamp lord is focussed on red fury and ASF (= re-rolls to hit), they won't have access to S7 or higher. Then wounding the necrosphinx becomes as hard as killing blow the vamp.

Sure they will; red fury and quickblood (ASF) are both Vampiric Powers, and Vampires never get any Strength bonuses from their Powers, so the Vampire Lord would be able to gain higher S in the normal way. Sword of +2 strength plus a Potion of Strength means he's striking at S10 and will absolutely rip the Sphynx apart. Sword of +3 strength gives them permanent S8. Even a basic Great Weapon gives them S7, which combined with ASF means they'd still strike at initiative value (i.e. before nearly everyone else).

oldWitheredCorpse
30-01-2012, 15:21
Sure they will; red fury and quickblood (ASF) are both Vampiric Powers, and Vampires never get any Strength bonuses from their Powers, so the Vampire Lord would be able to gain higher S in the normal way. Sword of +2 strength plus a Potion of Strength means he's striking at S10 and will absolutely rip the Sphynx apart. Sword of +3 strength gives them permanent S8. Even a basic Great Weapon gives them S7, which combined with ASF means they'd still strike at initiative value (i.e. before nearly everyone else).

They absolutely can, but the builds I've seen circulating seems to focus on the defence when it comes to magic items. If the character drinks a potion of strength, you can always reconsider your flying charge from afar, since it has to be quaffed at the start of the turn (before charges are declared).

warplock
30-01-2012, 17:25
They absolutely can, but the builds I've seen circulating seems to focus on the defence when it comes to magic items. If the character drinks a potion of strength, you can always reconsider your flying charge from afar, since it has to be quaffed at the start of the turn (before charges are declared).

True, I did and often do forget that about the potion of strength. I guess on the whole people are going +attacks rather than +strength with the lord anyway. And on reflection the S10 combo I mentioned would generally be more than a little excessive and hit and miss