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Ohris
24-01-2012, 12:24
Hello,

I just read the rules and atleast I have thought them to be atleast a bit worse than they really are... Im a vampire player so I have usually trusted others to know the rules so perhaps there have been some mistakes...

The rule is "If you use a weapon or spell that uses a template against a monster mount, both riders and the mount are automatically hit if the monster's base is touched by the template (note that this includes bouncing cannonballs!)."


So that would mean that stonethrowers, bolt throwers and the like are not so bad (still can be pretty bad though) since the nasty hit is only against one of the two targets... With stone thrower one of the two is hit with the center and the other gets that lower hit and does not do multiwounds since only center causes multiwounds. Bolt thrower also only hits one of them since it is not a bouncing cannon ball and also not a template weapon.


What about the cannon? If it hits and bounces through then both are hit no question BUT what about if it does not bounce? I could understand that it hit one of the targets (roll like missile weapon) and stops there and does not hit the other one...


What do you think or are these the rules you have been playing allready?
Did not find any clarifications on GW Faq on this...


Cannons and other warmachines have been played so damn strong vs monsters that rarely people play them... this could give them a bit more help...

Mid'ean
24-01-2012, 12:37
I'm assuming your saying that on the first roll the bounce starts on the model and then you roll a misfire so (sticks) no bounce from there. According to the rules the model is hit and follow the rules from there. Both rider and monster take a hit.

Ohris
24-01-2012, 12:42
Is the cannon ball bouncing if it does NOT bounce? If you roll a misfire on that second roll it just stops there and does not bounce, hence it is NOT a bouncing cannonball and the rule is NOT in effect... Then you would just randomize which target the cannonball hits.

I am just wondering since the rulebook specifically says a bouncing cannonball.


If it does bounce, then it would hit them both.

Mid'ean
24-01-2012, 13:21
The rules state what happens when it gets stuck in the ground and hits just the one model. And then you follow the same rules on how to resolve the hit. Pg 112 under Bounce. Yeah it doesn't bounce, but you follow the same rules for it.

Ohris
24-01-2012, 15:10
The rules state what happens when it gets stuck in the ground and hits just the one model. And then you follow the same rules on how to resolve the hit. Pg 112 under Bounce. Yeah it doesn't bounce, but you follow the same rules for it.

Hmm... Im looking at the bounce rule and it says and I quote "If the result is a misfire then the cannonball does not bounce - it thuds into the ground and comes to a rest. Any model under the spot where the cannonball comes to rest is hit." Well it does say any model is hit... but then when you go back to see the rule about shooting a cannon at a monster it talks about the bounce... and there it says "if the result is a misfire then the cannonball does not bounce".

Im not saying im right but its not that clear...

Mid'ean
24-01-2012, 18:39
Hmm... but then when you go back to see the rule about shooting a cannon at a monster it talks about the bounce... and there it says "if the result is a misfire then the cannonball does not bounce".

Im not saying im right but its not that clear...

And here you DON'T go back but follow on and read the rest of the sentence. ", see below for details of how to resolve the hit, but he is the only victim." You just need to get over the whole " but it doesn't bounce if it stick in the ground. The rules cover what happens.

LiddellHart
24-01-2012, 19:05
I agree with Mid'ean on this one. The stuck-in-ground part is an exception which specifically states the following rules apply. Those rules refer to the normal situation where there is a bounce.

Thus where bounce is mentioned in 'who's been hit' it specifically also applies to stuck-in-ground.

(Tapatalk@Galaxy)

Ohris
24-01-2012, 21:07
Yeah I quess thats how it is... sadly...
Well got to be more careful on stone throwers and such that are not as deadly as cannons.

There are separate rules on bouncing cannonballs and template weapons... template weapons are treated so that only one of the two (monster or rider) is hit with the center... So I quess cannons that shoot a template ( I think atleast skaven has one) are treated more like stone throwers than cannonballs so that if the template touches the monster, only one of them is hit with the center?

Mid'ean
24-01-2012, 22:36
Actually the skaven was FAQ'ed to work just like a monster/rider rules also. Both the Greyseerer and mount are hit. At least concerning cannon hits.

Ohris
25-01-2012, 06:18
Actually the skaven was FAQ'ed to work just like a monster/rider rules also. Both the Greyseerer and mount are hit. At least concerning cannon hits.

Hmm... I tried to read the faq and it says that "all models are hit" but since it is a template, surely they are not all hit with the center hole damage? Or is it the same with skaven? All the models are hit with mortars and catapults anyway so no different there. Its just that only one of the two are hit with high strenght and multiwounds.

So it works like a catapult or mortar in the sense that only one of the two is hit with the center hole damage and the other only takes a single wound S3-4 hit?

Even if the damage is the same under the template, only the center hole causes multiwounds... except if this is also different with skaven?