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Righthandedtwin
24-01-2012, 14:51
So here's the basic concept here, I'm looking to set up a Vampire Army, though I don't want to be fielding a massive Horde mostly because I can't realistically see myself painting 200 skeletons or a 100 zombies or what not. So I am looking for a soloution that would allow me to field a smaller army forces while still being able to field a Vampiric army. SO I have come up roughly with a couple concepts and would like to get bity of advice on them, or if you have any tips/advice in general about an undertaking of this nature. (Yes I realise that the VC by nature are a Horde army...they were my second force back in 6th ed after my Skaven force fell through):

So my first idea is to go for a Strigoi ghoul horde so:

SGK /w TG
Necro heroes
Max SU allowance on CH and bats
Grad 1-2 Vhargulf
Fill out rest of points on Ghouls.

With the basic idea being to tar pit the enemy with the CH, due to regeneration and PA though with the saturation of flaming attacks this is a tad risky but where is the fun in a game with no risk? While the CH are tarring I'd use Vhar and SGK to fly around wrecking WM and flanking units with the Ghouls.

My second idea was a Wight Host something like

Master Necro Gen
Krell + Necro heroes
Take min amount Skellies for Core
Max SU on GG and BK's
Possibly a BC rare for a bit of extra speed

With the idea here being to take advantage of KB and use Krell with a chunky unit of GG to go around eating untis while the MN provides magical offense and defence as well as keeping those skellies at strength for use in tar pitting. Maybe summon a few more Skellies and create a bunker for the MN.

My third idea which is probably the hardest one for me to pull off is a spirit host which works as:

(Magicy) VL on CT
CW/TB Heroes
Take two decent units of Zombies for use in TPing and Bunkering later on in the game.
Max out on HW's and SH for SU
Max out on CW and TB's for rares.

The idea here is to basically grind an enemy army to a stand still using etheral units while the VL goes around crushing units with magic and the zombies keep bumping up in unit size to shield the CT from charges.

Those are the basic concepts I came up with for keeping my army smaller and yea...so is this an achieveable feat? Is it possible to have a VC army without having a Horde of models to build and paint? I look forward and highly appreciate any advice or information you can give me.

AM1640
24-01-2012, 17:34
Hi Righthandedtwin, I find it interesting that you don't want to paint a large amount of infantry models , yet you have chosen an army that often (always) inclludes alot of cheap infantry. Instead of tweaking your list to avoid models, which could result in an amry that is not competative nor fun to play, I would look to other methods to gain the larger number of models that you may (will) need. Have you looked for prepainted plastic models you maybe able to find some undead by Confrontation for the ragnarok game. You could buy some painted models. Start smaller, as the title of the thread suggests. You don't need as many models for a 1000 point game. So many new players by or receive a couple of models and then think that they should start playing huge 2500+point games and they have trouble building a viable army with the 4 models that they currently own. If you are concerned with playing with fully painted models then it will take you years to get to that stage. If you play with friends, who cares whether the models are painted or not and just paint a few every week to a standard that you are comfortable with. Skeletons paint up really quickly (there are lots of guides and tips in other forums, blogs, the rest of the interweb).

Righthandedtwin
24-01-2012, 19:13
Right well taking the concept behind list number one, the Strigoi themed list here's my attempt at cramming in a small force while trying to still keep the power there, this is the kind of thing I was talking about (done at 2.5k points)



Strigoi Ghoul King
[+] Skabscrath
[+] Dread Knight
[+] Terrogheist

Necromancer
[+] Master of the Dead
[+] Level 2 Wizard
[+] Book of Arkhan

Necromancer
[+] Level 2 Wizard
[+] Rod of Flaming Death

Necromancer
[+] Level 2 Wizard
[+] The Cursed Book

15 Crypt Gheist
[+] Crypt Ghast

15 Crypt Gheist
[+] Crypt Ghast

6 Crypt Horrors
[+] Crypt Haunter

6 Crypt Horrors
[+] Crypt Haunter

6 Crypt Horrors
[+] Crypt Haunter

3 Cryp Horrors
[+] Crypt Horror

Varghulf

Varghulf

Total = 2498
Model Count = 57

I find the concept and challenge of a smaller/more elite Vamps force a really fun and interesting challenge having run a strigoi zombie horde back in 6th Ed. It's starting to occur to me perhaps I should have posted this in the tactics forum...hmmmm how can I get this thing moved?

Charistoph
24-01-2012, 20:15
The other altenative is a concept of Unit Filler, which is great for armies of the Undead. A Unit Filler is a centerpiece that fills a portion of the block but is on one huge base. A concept could be a graveyard or burial mound with the zombies or skeletons in various stages of rising from the grave. These fillers are usually about 3 models wide and 2 to 3 models deep so they take up space, but allow you room around it for reformations and removing casualties.

Righthandedtwin
24-01-2012, 20:16
The other altenative is a concept of Unit Filler, which is great for armies of the Undead. A Unit Filler is a centerpiece that fills a portion of the block but is on one huge base. A concept could be a graveyard or burial mound with the zombies or skeletons in various stages of rising from the grave. These fillers are usually about 3 models wide and 2 to 3 models deep so they take up space, but allow you room around it for reformations and removing casualties.

Hmm...intriguing, I'm not entirely sure what you mean though...do you have any examples you can show me?

AM1640
24-01-2012, 20:39
Hello again, Your thread does belong in the army list section. Live and learn, that's why there are mods to correct these things.
Anyway, if this is your list it is illegal for a couple of reasons:
You only have about half the required core points.
You can not have more than 3 duplicate special unit choices (Crypt Horrors).
The Strigoi Ghoul King on top of the terrorgheist and armed with the Scabskrath costs how much? (I don't have my book here) There is a 25% cap on lords and this maybe over.
You also lack a dispel scroll and may find it hard to dispel any high casting value spells as you only have level 2 and 1 casters. If magic isn't big in your area then don't worry about it.
If your general is the SGK then you may find it difficult to march move the rest of your army when you sending him flying around to hit the enemy's flanks. Saying you will just cast vanhel's is easier said then done. You have to get the spell, successfully cast it, not have it dispelled, and keep the 1 wizard with it alive long enough to get a benefit out of it. I do like you attitude of what's a game with out risks, however just be aware that moving the general around can be a little too much unmitigated risk.

Righthandedtwin
24-01-2012, 20:47
Hello again, Your thread does belong in the army list section. Live and learn, that's why there are mods to correct these things.
Anyway, if this is your list it is illegal for a couple of reasons:
You only have about half the required core points.
You can not have more than 3 duplicate special unit choices (Crypt Horrors).
The Strigoi Ghoul King on top of the terrorgheist and armed with the Scabskrath costs how much? (I don't have my book here) There is a 25% cap on lords and this maybe over.
You also lack a dispel scroll and may find it hard to dispel any high casting value spells as you only have level 2 and 1 casters. If magic isn't big in your area then don't worry about it.
If your general is the SGK then you may find it difficult to march move the rest of your army when you sending him flying around to hit the enemy's flanks. Saying you will just cast vanhel's is easier said then done. You have to get the spell, successfully cast it, not have it dispelled, and keep the 1 wizard with it alive long enough to get a benefit out of it. I do like you attitude of what's a game with out risks, however just be aware that moving the general around can be a little too much unmitigated risk.

That wasn't intended to be a working list it was just intended to be a list to demonstrate the ideaology behind how the smaller Vampire list was supposed to work, naturally exchange CH for a couple Vargheists and Lords are at 25% total so are Heroes so I can have up to 625 points of each the SGK in that list is 570pts. The idea is to couple the relentless durabillity of the SGK with the spells cast by the Necros to keep him healed up while he sheperds the army forward, then once the army are within a turn or two's range he springs forward taking the Vaghulf and Vagheist with him and lays into the enemy while the CH and ghouls catch up to add to CR and score extra hits in with the Necro's supplying support magic. I'm not sure how to get it moved so if you report the post for me or something to get the mods attention that'd be appreciated. I'll tidy it up and knock it into a working list in a few minutes but for the most part and I didn't realise there was a minimum core points allowance/requirement.

Yea I get your points on risk though I never found an appeal in mathhammering a game until the dice rolls become irrelevant because you basically know you'll win or not, the whole excitement in dice games is not knowing if you'll have success of failure :) that flying general could smash his way clean through the enemy or he could be tanked down and I sit crying while my army crumbles ;) but hey that's all a part of the game and has been my style for the last twelve years :D

Jind_Singh
24-01-2012, 23:23
Your on the right tracks - if you don't want to paint too many models but like the concept of Vampires then you basically:

25% Core = Ghouls and Dire Wolves

Most expensive in points meaning less models to paint - not to mention that they can't go beyond their starting size for raising spells - unless you get certain upgrades.

You then throw in Ghoul Kin - or whatever they are called - Troll sized Ghouls for the win!!

Mash up some hard hitters like Grave Guard or Black Knights and hey presto - a nice looking, themed, Ghoulish army that will have a lower model count!!

It's also a viable army - so long as you also shell out for a Necromancer or two to help with spell casting.

Keep the Ghoul King away from the mount though - it's a lot of points, better off keeping the beast as a rare choice for now.

the_slosh
24-01-2012, 23:44
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?276044-My-fantasy-log-Vampire-Counts-Empire-and-Lizardmen/page3

Post number 58 there is a unit filler

I think they are great and brings tons of character to units (if they are well done), but as with everything opinion differs

(hope I was allowed to share your cool blog SteelTitan :D)

Edit: As you can see in the picture the Graveyard sign takes up the space of four regular Ghouls

Righthandedtwin
25-01-2012, 07:52
Your on the right tracks - if you don't want to paint too many models but like the concept of Vampires then you basically:

25% Core = Ghouls and Dire Wolves

Most expensive in points meaning less models to paint - not to mention that they can't go beyond their starting size for raising spells - unless you get certain upgrades.

You then throw in Ghoul Kin - or whatever they are called - Troll sized Ghouls for the win!!

Mash up some hard hitters like Grave Guard or Black Knights and hey presto - a nice looking, themed, Ghoulish army that will have a lower model count!!

It's also a viable army - so long as you also shell out for a Necromancer or two to help with spell casting.

Keep the Ghoul King away from the mount though - it's a lot of points, better off keeping the beast as a rare choice for now.

Yea, I am going at this idea with a basic goal of keeping the whole list below 100 models, in the knock up list it had 57 models and hmmm, so you'd recommend graveguard? or did you mean a "count as" unit? since the lists are themed they kind of limit unit choice but are staying to the more expensive units because of how hard they hit by comparison to the cheaper units. Horde based VoC have always been built on the concept of a thousand weak attacks will eventually whittle the opponent down.

I see your point about the Terrorgheist, I can move it to rares for the same points cost, maybe tweak some components and add a second SGK with RF as a unit eater.


http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?276044-My-fantasy-log-Vampire-Counts-Empire-and-Lizardmen/page3

Post number 58 there is a unit filler

I think they are great and brings tons of character to units (if they are well done), but as with everything opinion differs

(hope I was allowed to share your cool blog SteelTitan :D)

Edit: As you can see in the picture the Graveyard sign takes up the space of four regular Ghouls

Aaah so that's what they are. Thanks sloth.